I see Herzlians say this about Jews all the time, and it really doesn’t impress me. Aside from being an argumentum ad populum, it is a worthless assertion because the overwhelming probability is that very few of these Jews know better. None of these people have any idea just how brutal the settlers were to the Palestinians in the late 1940s, nor are they likely to be aware of Theodor Herzl’s and Ben-Gurion’s nauseating remarks about other Jews, nor are they likely to have a deep understanding of Haavara, to name only a few facts from which Herzlians shy away. The upper classes don’t want to teach anyone about any of that, so they give the Jewish public a Disneyfied oversimplification of Zionism instead.

The reasons that many Jews approve of Herzlianism are similar to why most diasporic Italians approved of Benito Mussolini. Many Italians were casually profascist because the Fascists made them look tough and offered them obvious examples to cite proving that Italians weren’t weaklings or failures. They were desperate for role models, so they could hardly afford to be picky. In any case, probably only a minority of them were deeply interested or committed to Fascist politics anyway, so it would be an overreaction to ‘hate’ all of them. Most of them simply didn’t know better.

In sum, I don’t care all that much if most Jews believe that it’s ‘wrong’ to oppose Herzlianism, since I find it extremely unlikely that they support the movement being fully aware of all its horrible history. Sooner or later they’re all going to outgrow it, just like many Italians outgrew Mussolini. Every day the apartheid regime moves closer to collapse.

  • @[email protected]
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    fedilink
    154 months ago

    “Most X have Y position” is tokenizing logic that can be used to launder liberal positions under the guise of liberationist rhetoric. Liberal positions are dominant under capitalism, they are the propaganda of the ruling class. Every X group can be polled to find liberal / reactionary positions and this is not a justification for supporting those positions.

    Re: polling, it costs money, you should ask who paid for the poll and why and check its methodology in order to know what meaning, if any, can be gleaned. Were only college students polled? Was it a landline poll? Etc etc.

    Finally, don’t underestimate the propagandized’s capacity to have incoherent positions, plastic positions, or nuanced positions that don’t square well with the question. Particularly when it comes to plasticity, this is why the liberal propaganda apparatus is weaponized against social movements. If the people could not be moved, the ruling class would not spend so much time and effort on social control. This is a primary function of the Democrats, for example: to appropriate, oppose, and defang social movements, funnel them into nothingness and their own capital-directed apparatuses. BLM’s trajectory is an example of this.

    Returning to Zionism, also be aware of this tokenizing logic when applied to other groups. If you poll various states’ populations in the region you would probably find a liberal zionist position to be very popular, maybe even majority. Likely with a “but we feel for Palestine” sentiment, but still one that tolerates the Zionist entity, that legitimizes it. So someone can come to you and tell you that “most people from [Arab country] don’t even reject Israel, how do you know better than them?” That person may even be from that country! They will weaponize this tokenization to support a genocidal racist apartheid project. And you must at least expect it and have a strategy. The best strategy being: prevent this possibility from disrupting your project from the get-go by enumerating it as a possibility and how your organization will reject it.