And I don’t think so, because what we have gotten addicted to is over reliance on a partner that has never really behaved as one.
Now that we have this situation, we are looking around and rediscovering the extent of the influence and power we can have in relations with other actors.
I’m not saying this shake-up is not good, I’m saying USA permanently not being an ally would be bad.
Obviously we would want to be more independent and strong and less reliable, but that doesn’t mean we need to fight USA over greenland or have permanent trade wars with them or whatever.
I don’t think so, I think I made a point and then you are arguing a different point entirely.
My point is that having USA, as a RELIABLE partner who DOES NOT have this toxic side (the true face they are showing), would be more beneficial for Europe, than an USA that is working against us.
It is quite impossible to have a healthy partnership with any country on earth and that being bad for us somehow. Granted, if its doesn’t make us too dependent on them. But I’m talking about a partner that WOULD NOT be like that.
We never had a healthy relationship with the USA in the last 80 years.
We have no experience of what you are arguing for, especially not as a United Europe.
Yes, now are arriving at the crux of the disagreement. I disagree, I think USA has been a lot more helpful than unhelpful, not to mention WWII. But I think this would be moot to argue about because neither of us will budge on our opinion.
Anyway, given that difference in how we see USA, I think they are potentially still much easier to work with than much of the rest of the world and we can mutually benefit from each other A LOT, granted that USA gets it shit together. Yes I understand that you disagree with that, but this is my point.
I have very low faith in the current administration of USA, they need to get rid of that shit. Or even better, just abolish the whole 2 party system, democrats are not that great either, get rid of lobbying and the rampant corporatism and then we’re talking… I know this seems pretty impossible right now, but I’m just saying if they did all that, they would be an amazing partner to Europe.
I still think that even the way USA has been until recently, they have still been a big net positive to Europe, but I also agree that Europe has gotten complacent, especially after the cold war. I just don’t think US working against us would wake us up so much that we would somehow elevate ourselves to some better level. In reality we would likely have to start aligning more with China, which is a lot yuckier.
I absolutely agree that they are easier to deal with than most, but we need to be aware that that happened by design.
They shaped us into a block that has a headache whenever it is time to talk to anyone that is not them.
Is as if we were in a (imo toxic) relationship with the first person we ever kissed in high school.
And I don’t think so, because what we have gotten addicted to is over reliance on a partner that has never really behaved as one. Now that we have this situation, we are looking around and rediscovering the extent of the influence and power we can have in relations with other actors.
Relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5VYUewImUc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHOSBKgM188
This is at all possible because USA is in shambles.
I’m not saying this shake-up is not good, I’m saying USA permanently not being an ally would be bad. Obviously we would want to be more independent and strong and less reliable, but that doesn’t mean we need to fight USA over greenland or have permanent trade wars with them or whatever.
I don’t think we will be doing any of that. Also because it takes two to tango and, again, our efforts are best spent elsewhere.
they are not, its not an either-or.
This is what we really disagree on, but I already explained my position.
I don’t think so, I think I made a point and then you are arguing a different point entirely.
My point is that having USA, as a RELIABLE partner who DOES NOT have this toxic side (the true face they are showing), would be more beneficial for Europe, than an USA that is working against us. It is quite impossible to have a healthy partnership with any country on earth and that being bad for us somehow. Granted, if its doesn’t make us too dependent on them. But I’m talking about a partner that WOULD NOT be like that.
There is just no way you disagree with that.
We never had a healthy relationship with the USA in the last 80 years. We have no experience of what you are arguing for, especially not as a United Europe.
Yes, now are arriving at the crux of the disagreement. I disagree, I think USA has been a lot more helpful than unhelpful, not to mention WWII. But I think this would be moot to argue about because neither of us will budge on our opinion.
Anyway, given that difference in how we see USA, I think they are potentially still much easier to work with than much of the rest of the world and we can mutually benefit from each other A LOT, granted that USA gets it shit together. Yes I understand that you disagree with that, but this is my point.
I have very low faith in the current administration of USA, they need to get rid of that shit. Or even better, just abolish the whole 2 party system, democrats are not that great either, get rid of lobbying and the rampant corporatism and then we’re talking… I know this seems pretty impossible right now, but I’m just saying if they did all that, they would be an amazing partner to Europe.
I still think that even the way USA has been until recently, they have still been a big net positive to Europe, but I also agree that Europe has gotten complacent, especially after the cold war. I just don’t think US working against us would wake us up so much that we would somehow elevate ourselves to some better level. In reality we would likely have to start aligning more with China, which is a lot yuckier.
I absolutely agree that they are easier to deal with than most, but we need to be aware that that happened by design. They shaped us into a block that has a headache whenever it is time to talk to anyone that is not them.
Is as if we were in a (imo toxic) relationship with the first person we ever kissed in high school.