It costs half the price of a new EV to replace the battery. Buying a second hand EV means you have no idea how the battery has been treated, and you know the clock is already ticking until you have to shell out a massive amount of $ for a new battery.
Any battery powered device that costs more to replace the battery than it costs to buy a new device is not a smart purchase when it’s close to or outside of its warranty period. The risk is not worth it.
It’s like you don’t even understand the point being made. If a EV battery was good for “the life of the car” (let’s say 350,000km or 20 years) then the warranty would be 350,000km or 20 years, wouldn’t it?
Answer me this - why is the battery warranty 8 years / 100,000km with 70% capacity (or whatever the km limit is, can’t remember off the top of my head)? Why don’t they guarantee it for 15 years? 20 years?
An incorrect assumption you have made is that batteries fail at a higher rate than major components on an ICE car. It’s a misunderstanding of the relative risk. Like how people hop in their car every day no worries but are afraid to fly.
Also is 100,000 miles or 160,000 km, not 100,000 km as the current warranty standard. And like any new technology, they really don’t know exactly how long they are going to last, so at this stage manufacturers are hedging their bets.
Again missing the point. My assumption wasn’t that batteries fail at a higher rate than “major components” on an ICE car - it was that if/when the battery fails it’s exponentially more expensive than any component failing on a ICE car.
If you buy a $50k ICE car and the entire engine dies out of warranty (which isn’t what happens generally, just parts of it would), a whole new engine will cost you probably $3k-$4k installed. Battery dies out of warranty on a $50k EV? ~$20k to replace……for a car that’s worth probably $10k by then.
Do you see the difference? One means you literally send the car to the wreckers and have no car, the other means you’re back on the road in the same car a week or 2 later.
You are lowballing the cost of replacing an engine significantly: it MIGHT be as low as $3000, it could be over $10,000. You also are completely ignoring the plethora of moving parts in an ICE vehicle that can fail. The drivetrain in an ICE vehicle contains 2,000+ moving parts typically, whereas the drivetrain in an EV contains around 20. This makes for a massive reduction in maintenance costs over the lifetime of the vehicle, which you also don’t take into consideration in total cost of ownership.
A new engine for a 7+ year old out of warranty car that cost as much as a mass market EV is NOT going to cost you $10k.
And yes, there are more parts in conventional cars, but most parts are cheap to repair/replace. There’s no $20k part that WILL need replacing like there is in a EV. There’s no part that will make your car get less mileage every year.
@Whirlybird@kudra
The condition of a used EV depends on how it’s been treated. EVs are not alone in that.
In general, the battery of a modern EV can be expected to last for the useful life of the vehicle. “… scientists discovered that battery replacements were very rare, with only about 1.5 percent of EVs needing a replacement – and almost all of those replacements were under warranty.” https://www.greencars.com/expert-insights/research-shows-ev-battery-replacements-very-rare
A small study by a pro EV company, reported on by a pro EV site…yeah nah lol.
The warranty is what matters. Unless an EV is 10% of its sale price, if it’s even within 2 years of its warranty on the battery ending it’s no deal. Might it last 10 years past the warranty retaining ~70% of its capacity? Sure. It’s possible. Could it also just drop dead at the drop of a hat, or capacity just drop like a rock? Absolutely. One of those scenarios will cost you almost the price of a new car, the other won’t.
And that lifetime is what, 8 years according to their warranty?
You can provide references for whatever you want, but like I said - the warranty is what matters. If the manufacturer warranty is for x years, anything after that is not guaranteed and is a massive risk because of how expensive the replacement is. This isn’t hard to understand.
You might think there’s no risk in buying an electric car that’s out of warranty (or approaching the end of its warranty), but the tens of thousands of dollars you’d have to pay to replace the battery 1/2/5 years down the track says otherwise.
Correct, new EVs have even better batteries than first gen too. My first EV I replaced the battery, but not because they’re was anything wrong with it: that battery likely would have lasted at least twice as long, but an enterprising engineer created a battery upgrade that doubled the original range in the same footprint, and we can expect further improvements in batteries, so I expect to upgrade again in future, maybe 10-15 years, and double the range again.
Old EV batteries can be reused and make ideal off grid house batteries.
It costs half the price of a new EV to replace the battery. Buying a second hand EV means you have no idea how the battery has been treated, and you know the clock is already ticking until you have to shell out a massive amount of $ for a new battery.
Have you actually bought a second hand EV?
Why on earth would I do that based on my post?
It was a facetious question. Clearly you wouldn’t with such misguided preconceptions.
“Misguided preconceptions” lolololol
Any battery powered device that costs more to replace the battery than it costs to buy a new device is not a smart purchase when it’s close to or outside of its warranty period. The risk is not worth it.
It’s like you don’t even understand the point being made. If a EV battery was good for “the life of the car” (let’s say 350,000km or 20 years) then the warranty would be 350,000km or 20 years, wouldn’t it?
Answer me this - why is the battery warranty 8 years / 100,000km with 70% capacity (or whatever the km limit is, can’t remember off the top of my head)? Why don’t they guarantee it for 15 years? 20 years?
An incorrect assumption you have made is that batteries fail at a higher rate than major components on an ICE car. It’s a misunderstanding of the relative risk. Like how people hop in their car every day no worries but are afraid to fly.
Also is 100,000 miles or 160,000 km, not 100,000 km as the current warranty standard. And like any new technology, they really don’t know exactly how long they are going to last, so at this stage manufacturers are hedging their bets.
https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/new-data-reveals-the-battery-life-in-used-electric-vehicles/
https://www.theengineer.co.uk/content/news/assurances-on-battery-health-could-boost-used-ev-sales-report/
Again missing the point. My assumption wasn’t that batteries fail at a higher rate than “major components” on an ICE car - it was that if/when the battery fails it’s exponentially more expensive than any component failing on a ICE car.
If you buy a $50k ICE car and the entire engine dies out of warranty (which isn’t what happens generally, just parts of it would), a whole new engine will cost you probably $3k-$4k installed. Battery dies out of warranty on a $50k EV? ~$20k to replace……for a car that’s worth probably $10k by then.
Do you see the difference? One means you literally send the car to the wreckers and have no car, the other means you’re back on the road in the same car a week or 2 later.
You are lowballing the cost of replacing an engine significantly: it MIGHT be as low as $3000, it could be over $10,000. You also are completely ignoring the plethora of moving parts in an ICE vehicle that can fail. The drivetrain in an ICE vehicle contains 2,000+ moving parts typically, whereas the drivetrain in an EV contains around 20. This makes for a massive reduction in maintenance costs over the lifetime of the vehicle, which you also don’t take into consideration in total cost of ownership.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sap/2018/09/06/seven-reasons-why-the-internal-combustion-engine-is-a-dead-man-walking-updated/
A new engine for a 7+ year old out of warranty car that cost as much as a mass market EV is NOT going to cost you $10k.
And yes, there are more parts in conventional cars, but most parts are cheap to repair/replace. There’s no $20k part that WILL need replacing like there is in a EV. There’s no part that will make your car get less mileage every year.
@Whirlybird @kudra
The condition of a used EV depends on how it’s been treated. EVs are not alone in that.
In general, the battery of a modern EV can be expected to last for the useful life of the vehicle. “… scientists discovered that battery replacements were very rare, with only about 1.5 percent of EVs needing a replacement – and almost all of those replacements were under warranty.”
https://www.greencars.com/expert-insights/research-shows-ev-battery-replacements-very-rare
#ElectricVehicles
#EVbatteries
A small study by a pro EV company, reported on by a pro EV site…yeah nah lol.
The warranty is what matters. Unless an EV is 10% of its sale price, if it’s even within 2 years of its warranty on the battery ending it’s no deal. Might it last 10 years past the warranty retaining ~70% of its capacity? Sure. It’s possible. Could it also just drop dead at the drop of a hat, or capacity just drop like a rock? Absolutely. One of those scenarios will cost you almost the price of a new car, the other won’t.
Yet you can only assert your belief @Whirlybird
Even a little trustworthy evidence would enhance your credibility.
“… generally, EV batteries are designed to last the lifetime of the vehicle …”
https://www.whichcar.com.au/advice/when-do-ev-batteries-need-to-be-replaced
I can keep providing references all day, if you want.
#ElectricVehicles
#EVbatteries
And that lifetime is what, 8 years according to their warranty?
You can provide references for whatever you want, but like I said - the warranty is what matters. If the manufacturer warranty is for x years, anything after that is not guaranteed and is a massive risk because of how expensive the replacement is. This isn’t hard to understand.
You might think there’s no risk in buying an electric car that’s out of warranty (or approaching the end of its warranty), but the tens of thousands of dollars you’d have to pay to replace the battery 1/2/5 years down the track says otherwise.
@Whirlybird
The average warranty for internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles varies depending on the manufacturer and region, but typically falls within the range of 3 to 7 years, with some up to 10.
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/best-car-warranties-revealed-118462/
So you’re saying that ICE vehicles typically last 10 years or less.
There are risks in buying anything, new or used. The warranty is just a limited guarantee.
It used to be said of ICE vehicles that they’d never replace the horse. The big problem being that you can’t grow the fuel.
With EVs, at least power points are pretty common. That wasn’t the case for petrol stations, back in the day.
It’s a management issue. The adaptable survived. You’re just proving that you’re not a survivor.
https://afma.org.au/new-ev-batteries-may-last-beyond-vehicle-lifetime-study/
#ElectricVehicles
#EVbatteries
A EV battery replacement is multiples of times more expensive than an engine replacement on basically any non-supercar lol.
You’ve made some bad arguments but that one knocks it out of the park.
@Whirlybird
Except that EV batteries rarely need replacement. As I’ve proven time and time again.
Clearly, you have a belief system that is not supported by reality.
https://www.electrichybridvehicletechnology.com/news/uk-research-shows-evs-now-match-lifespan-of-ice-vehicles.html
#ElectricVehicles
#EVbatteries
Except when they don’t, at which time you’ll be out of pocket tens of thousands of dollars.
People like you are insufferable. EVs are awesome, but they’re not perfect and they’re a much bigger risk buying second hand.
Correct, new EVs have even better batteries than first gen too. My first EV I replaced the battery, but not because they’re was anything wrong with it: that battery likely would have lasted at least twice as long, but an enterprising engineer created a battery upgrade that doubled the original range in the same footprint, and we can expect further improvements in batteries, so I expect to upgrade again in future, maybe 10-15 years, and double the range again.
Old EV batteries can be reused and make ideal off grid house batteries.