cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/27921882
Hi! I am a stranger on this instance, I have read a lot of warnings about the “tankie triad”, but wanted to see for myself and keep an open mind.
I watched this video, and it made me want to take a deep dive into socialism/communism, with as much objectivity as I can. https://youtu.be/BeRjTtKFlVM
I understand how capitalism works, and I have doubts that it is a sustainable system for society long term, but social democracy has been a good way of keeping capitalism in-check in Norway. So even if capitalism is not ideal, it is in theory possible to tax the rich more and keep the whole thing going in the future. I also understand the exploitation and the extraction of surplus value, rent seeking etc.
Other capitalist countries such as the US is currently struggling with basic human needs. And that is “the shining beacon of capitalism”.
In Norway it has for a long time been common to use the US as an example of what not to do.
What I am interested in learning is how society would operate and function under socialism / communism. More about the differences. Preferably from less dry sources than The Capital from Marx. Where can I learn more? Preferably a bit entertaining.
It is important to me that it is historically accurate and factually correct.
Look forward to your replies 😊
Hello. First of all, I want to congratulate you for putting in the effort of actually coming here to see for yourself instead of taking what you heard at face value, it may not sound like much but it is rare enough to be noteworthy. To be actively challenging your current worldview by looking for alternative ones, especially on political and economical matters, isn’t something a lot of peoples ever do, and it is a great sign of open mindedness and intelligence in my opinion.
I will now respond to your questions and affirmation point by point.
There are a few things you need to know about social democracy that it’s proponents never talk about, more often because they don’t know either than to intentionally hide information.
Social democracy in Europe really got going after ww2 as a concession to the working class. The reason the European capitalists allowed this concession is because, on one hand, after ww2 communism was wildly popular in Europe, the French communist party for example was the most popular political party at the time, which meant that there was a great risk of revolutions happening all across the continent, but on the other hand, the fascists had just been beaten to the curb, they were grazing walls and not ready to come out in public again anytime soon, so the capitalists couldn’t use the fascists to crush the communists the way they had between the 2 world wars (the Nazis and Italian fascists both took power after successfully crushing ongoing communist revolutions in their respective countries).
Since the capitalists couldn’t crush the growing worker movements, yet didn’t want to lose everything in a revolution, they decided on a temporary compromise. They would give the working class some social benefits (paid for mainly by neo-colonial exploitation of “former” colonies via import taxes and various means of resources theft) in order to calm the growing revolutionary sentiment.
This is a first thing that is very important to understand because the implied narrative of social democrats is that Europe got all these nice social benefits simply by voting for the right peoples. This is false. The capitalists allowed us social democracy because they were scared shitless that if they didn’t, one day we would break down their doors armed with torches and pitchforks and drag them all to the guillotines. In other words, the idea that you can get social democracy by voting for Bernie Sanders (or whoever represent the social democrat faction in your country) is false, just straight up completely false, the capitalists only let social democracy happen when there is a real threat of revolution but the capitalists have been too weakened by whatever factors to fight against one.
The second thing you need to understand about social democracy is that social democracy is, and I cannot stress this enough, always a temporary concession. It never ever stays long term. They let us have it when they are scared and defenseless, but as soon as the threat of revolution is passed, they start slowly but surely taking it all away. You know how there are always massive protests going on in Europe to the point you hear about it all the way in the US? That’s why! All over Europe, the capitalists are slowly taking social benefits away, privatizing public enterprises, de-funding schools, hospitals, etc… That’s what we have been constantly protesting against for decades.
So no, social democracy isn’t keeping capitalism in check, and was never meant to. Social democracy is to keep us in check.
As for taxing the rich and all that. Just the fact the under capitalism, governments are made of billionaires and peoples bribed by billionaires should be enough to dispel any notion that they would ever let such a thing get passed unless under pressure of a potential revolution.
I can recommend a few videos:
The Future of Socialism
How Democracy Works in Cuba
Why We Need Socialism
Socialism is just better, scientifically
“Socialism always fails” is a stupid argument
Why Do Poor Countries Stay Poor? (Unequal Exchange and Imperialism)
Is Vietnam socialist?
DEMOCRATIC CENTRALISM - how Socialists make decisions!
LAND REFORM in Vietnam
How can China be socialist if it has a stock market? Understanding the Chinese economy
People Really Liked Socialism, Actually
Here is a playlist about the history of modes of productions and class struggle based on a textbook:
Guide to Marxist Economics
A series of 3 videos about how capitalists used the Nazis to crush the german revolution:
The Betrayal Of The German Revolution | Part I
The Betrayal Of The German Revolution | Part II
The Betrayal Of The German Revolution | Part III
If you prefer books, you can check out the Library on prolewiki
There are plenty more things you can check out. If you go on Hexbear or Lemmygrad and search for things on there or post to ask for things to read or watch, you’ll find plenty. Btw, your account seems to be on the .world instance, this instance defederated both Hexbear and Lemmygrad so you won’t be able to use your current account to interact with them, I suggest you make an account on lemmy.ml so that you can.
Thanks a lot for your thorough reply.
Your view on social democracy is interesting to me. I have more faith in the effects of democracy in a capitalist society than you. Maybe I am a bit naive still. I have no doubts that many countries are corrupted by lobbyists and billionaires, I do however still believe Norway isn’t there yet.
But I do see some cracks in the system that shakes my beliefs in the sustainability of the curremt model long term.
It is still really interesting to read, and I will have to read more about the birth of the social democratic model going forward!
I will take a look at the videos you shared, that is my preferred way of learning, except discussion and Q&A 😄