The centers of both parties are functionally allies, the power structure of the Democratic party despises the kind of progressive politics AOC and Bernie do far more than the Republicans they claim to oppose even when those Republicans are literal out in the open fascists. Chuck Shumer is exhibit A and will become a historical touchstone for discussions about how neoliberalism always in the end sets up the conditions for fascism and then pathetically collapses in the crucial moment of resistance against fascism.
Fuck that, both parties need to go, how many times has the Democratic party laughed in the face of Bernie as they blatantly undermined him?
No, I treat Republicans as an existential threat, which means I also logically see the entrenched power structures of the Democrats that are happy to lose to Republicans rather than evolve, as an existential threat.
Pelosi is a Democrat through and through, AOC and Bernie are Democrats because they have no choice in the status quo.
Actually one of the biggest arguments in geology/evolutionary biology is whether evolution tends to be a slow, continous steady process or whether it happens in explosive spurts seperated by periods of little evolution.
There is abundant evidence that both happens, so your metaphor is tenous at best.
Because they weren’t afraid of change before we are “ready for it” like you are, which is the only reason the tea party worked. They were willing to tear everything down if it wasn’t working, and that made the rest of the Republican party blink.
Your strategy is exactly the kind of political pushback people like Shumer and Pelosi prefer, because it is strategically ineffectual at threatening their power.
I would point, however, to that emphasizing the need to create a progressive party, rather than prioritizing the destruction of the now-castrated Dems.
The entrenched power structure is always going to narrativize a genuine alternative to the Democratic party as harsh toned leftists destroying things to destroy things, so if you are afraid of that in your rhetoric (even if you end up supporting more reform like policies in the end) you are already making it incredibly easy to be walked all over by people that resist all change.
No, the strategy is to go for the throat of the DNC and happily back off when they realize you aren’t messing around and give material concessions to the people they are supposed to represent. This is why the tea party was unfortunately successful, now is when the left does our version.
If that breaks the Democratic party in the process, that is their fault for building a house of cards indifferent to the suffering of people in the US.
Bruh, “Have a new tool ready before you get rid of the old one” isn’t being afraid of leftism, even rhetorically. It’s asking leftists to treat this scenario seriously, and not like the population of the US is just waiting to burst out singing the Internationale as soon as the right vanguard pops up on the scene.
Dems are a far right party that only look centrist if you squint looking at them from inside fascist crazy town.
To basically anyone in the developed world, of which we are not, Luigi murdered a mass murderer, to any fascist or neoliberal here, we have to let murderers for profit let the free market decide who gets life saving healthcare, as just 1 of innumerable examples.
Neoliberals don’t squee like little girls at the hello kitty store when people suffer and die needlessly when it facilitates private profit as the Fascists do, but they don’t see it as the social fabric betrayal and atrocity it is either. “free market forces, mr dying homeless person, but I support your right to die in the gutter of hunger and exposure as any identity you choose!” Because it’s free to, but people need their basic survival met first, and that takes resources that go to them and not the robber barons that pay off both parties.
agreed. In context, they’re centrists for the States. Bernie is only barely left of center to the rest of the world but considered extreme here by corporate media and the other government clowns.
Bernie is only barely left of center to the rest of the world
When people say dumbass shit like this it makes me wonder what part of the world they are talking about.
All of Africa: right wing compared to America
Most of South America: right wing compared to America
Pretty much all of Asia: right wing compared to America
Middle East: lmao
Russia: lmao
Europe: about 70% right wing or similar to America with a handful of countries that might be considered left wing maybe but are sliding right as well.
The British Commonwealth: about the same as America except for the healthcare aspect.
Maybe you consider Antarctica left wing? Maybe the Oceans? Maybe the only part of the world that exists to these idiots are uber white Aryan nordic countries only? Or maybe you live in a fantasy dimension and are somehow communicating to us through a wormhole via Lemmy.
Even if you claim Europe is more left wing than America (which is obviously debatable at this point) it still doesn’t change the fact that Europe isn’t “the rest of the world”.
That’s a funny take. The former speaker of the house who hand selected her replacement and was the leader of the Democratic caucus for more than a decade, and you’re basically calling them a DINO
It means that a true Democrat or Republican is one who represents the views of their constituents. Not who holds the reins of power in their respective parties. This is a valid definition.
I don’t believe that is a valid definition. A good politician is someone who represents the views of their constituents. A true Democrat (or whatever party) is someone who represents the views of the party. The views of the party may be influenced by party candidates on behalf of their constituents, but those views are decided upon by a group of people that aren’t elected by a public ballot and have no obligation to democratic voters. If you don’t like the platform of the party, you’re supposed to go join a different party (but we’re kinda fucked with that right now). If you’re talking about who represents the views of the democratic party, it’s difficult to find someone who represents them better than Pelosi.
Instead of valid definition I should have said a “good definition”. There is no real definition of a “true Democrat” or vice versa for Republicans. Both your definition and my definition are valid definitions.
If you don’t like the platform of the party, you’re supposed to go join a different party
The other option is to slowly replace the members of the party in positions of power. Why do you think AOC is encouraging young people to run for office? She has the right idea.
The fact of the matter is that the US has a two party political system. This isn’t changing unless one of the parties gains power and essentially gives it up to implement a new system.
Another fact is that young people aren’t running for office so all of our politicians are part of the gerontocracy and all hold particular views from having been born in a generation most of us no longer relate with.
The only way to change things is to get young people into office at the lower levels and work their way up by building political careers until they are the ones in the positions of power in the DNC.
The ones who will hold the reins and make change happen are the ones who actually decide to run for office. This is the system of the United States that allows it’s citizens to control what happens in the higher echelons of government.
Yes voting is a part of it but it sounds like you are unhappy with the choices you are given to vote for and that’s purely because the people you would like to vote for are not running for office and winning. If they are running and not winning that is because they are not popular with the public which is another conversation but I think the majority of you are getting stuck in the “not feeling like doing anything but protesting” phase and not actually running for office.
I’d argue that Nancy Pelosy is more representative of the dems than AOC.
The centers of both parties are functionally allies, the power structure of the Democratic party despises the kind of progressive politics AOC and Bernie do far more than the Republicans they claim to oppose even when those Republicans are literal out in the open fascists. Chuck Shumer is exhibit A and will become a historical touchstone for discussions about how neoliberalism always in the end sets up the conditions for fascism and then pathetically collapses in the crucial moment of resistance against fascism.
Fuck that, both parties need to go, how many times has the Democratic party laughed in the face of Bernie as they blatantly undermined him?
No, I treat Republicans as an existential threat, which means I also logically see the entrenched power structures of the Democrats that are happy to lose to Republicans rather than evolve, as an existential threat.
Pelosi is a Democrat through and through, AOC and Bernie are Democrats because they have no choice in the status quo.
Weird how evolution takes time.
Actually one of the biggest arguments in geology/evolutionary biology is whether evolution tends to be a slow, continous steady process or whether it happens in explosive spurts seperated by periods of little evolution.
There is abundant evidence that both happens, so your metaphor is tenous at best.
The progressives need a build a new party before we destroy the existing ones.
Says who?
Common sense.
Weak response, provide evidence that trying to reform the Democratic party is a better strategy.
They will not change their strategy, the organization is structurally incapable of it, how much more proof do you need?
Maga fundamentally changed the Republican Party but you’re saying the progressives are unable to do the same?
Why wouldn’t they be able to?
Because they weren’t afraid of change before we are “ready for it” like you are, which is the only reason the tea party worked. They were willing to tear everything down if it wasn’t working, and that made the rest of the Republican party blink.
Your strategy is exactly the kind of political pushback people like Shumer and Pelosi prefer, because it is strategically ineffectual at threatening their power.
MAGA put in the time and effort to reform the GOP which I haven’t seen progressives do.
They’re still stuck on their guy losing the primary nine years ago.
Anyone who wants to exist under a non-fascist government?
We are past that point already?
A fair point.
I would point, however, to that emphasizing the need to create a progressive party, rather than prioritizing the destruction of the now-castrated Dems.
The entrenched power structure is always going to narrativize a genuine alternative to the Democratic party as harsh toned leftists destroying things to destroy things, so if you are afraid of that in your rhetoric (even if you end up supporting more reform like policies in the end) you are already making it incredibly easy to be walked all over by people that resist all change.
No, the strategy is to go for the throat of the DNC and happily back off when they realize you aren’t messing around and give material concessions to the people they are supposed to represent. This is why the tea party was unfortunately successful, now is when the left does our version.
If that breaks the Democratic party in the process, that is their fault for building a house of cards indifferent to the suffering of people in the US.
Bruh, “Have a new tool ready before you get rid of the old one” isn’t being afraid of leftism, even rhetorically. It’s asking leftists to treat this scenario seriously, and not like the population of the US is just waiting to burst out singing the Internationale as soon as the right vanguard pops up on the scene.
So what? That does not negate the stated want.
The bi partisan police state and Military Industrial Complex existed before Trump ever took public office.
Well, I’d argue Nancy is more representative of wealthy American neo-liberals, which most of us are not.
I’d even argue is Nancy even a dem at this point she’s more of a centrist parading around as a dem.
Yes which is much closer to who the Dems are representing as a whole
No, based upon the popularity of policies, AOC is FAR closer to representing normal people than more conservative democrats like Pelosi are?
There is a reason people hate centrist corporate democrats, it is because they don’t even pretend to push policies people desperately need.
Then why do we keep electing them in primaries?
That’s fair I’d agree with it.
While Nancy’s actual politics may be more centrists than dem, shes still one of the old guards that must go away for any actual change in the party.
The Dems are centrists. They always have been.
I totally agree with you she must go, she’s part of the let’s maintain the status quo dems.
Dems are centrists.
Dems are a far right party that only look centrist if you squint looking at them from inside fascist crazy town.
To basically anyone in the developed world, of which we are not, Luigi murdered a mass murderer, to any fascist or neoliberal here, we have to let murderers for profit let the free market decide who gets life saving healthcare, as just 1 of innumerable examples.
Neoliberals don’t squee like little girls at the hello kitty store when people suffer and die needlessly when it facilitates private profit as the Fascists do, but they don’t see it as the social fabric betrayal and atrocity it is either. “free market forces, mr dying homeless person, but I support your right to die in the gutter of hunger and exposure as any identity you choose!” Because it’s free to, but people need their basic survival met first, and that takes resources that go to them and not the robber barons that pay off both parties.
agreed. In context, they’re centrists for the States. Bernie is only barely left of center to the rest of the world but considered extreme here by corporate media and the other government clowns.
When people say dumbass shit like this it makes me wonder what part of the world they are talking about.
All of Africa: right wing compared to America
Most of South America: right wing compared to America
Pretty much all of Asia: right wing compared to America
Middle East: lmao
Russia: lmao
Europe: about 70% right wing or similar to America with a handful of countries that might be considered left wing maybe but are sliding right as well.
The British Commonwealth: about the same as America except for the healthcare aspect.
Maybe you consider Antarctica left wing? Maybe the Oceans? Maybe the only part of the world that exists to these idiots are uber white Aryan nordic countries only? Or maybe you live in a fantasy dimension and are somehow communicating to us through a wormhole via Lemmy.
Europe is absolutely not as you describe. That’s what the media feeds you in North America.
Oh so Hungary is left wing?
https://www.newsweek.com/europe-france-germany-elections-far-right-map-1910280
https://www.politico.eu/article/mapped-europe-far-right-government-power-politics-eu-italy-finalnd-hungary-parties-elections-polling/
https://eupoliticalbarometer.uc3m.es/dashboard/ideology
https://www.indy100.com/politics/map-europe-far-right-government
Even if you claim Europe is more left wing than America (which is obviously debatable at this point) it still doesn’t change the fact that Europe isn’t “the rest of the world”.
That’s a funny take. The former speaker of the house who hand selected her replacement and was the leader of the Democratic caucus for more than a decade, and you’re basically calling them a DINO
MAGA regularly calls Mitch McConnell a RINO. Why should we handle Nancy any differently?
Right, lol. I guess the other user thought they had me in some sort of gotcha moment.
You guys are so right, maga does it, that means it’s correct
/S
It means that a true Democrat or Republican is one who represents the views of their constituents. Not who holds the reins of power in their respective parties. This is a valid definition.
I don’t believe that is a valid definition. A good politician is someone who represents the views of their constituents. A true Democrat (or whatever party) is someone who represents the views of the party. The views of the party may be influenced by party candidates on behalf of their constituents, but those views are decided upon by a group of people that aren’t elected by a public ballot and have no obligation to democratic voters. If you don’t like the platform of the party, you’re supposed to go join a different party (but we’re kinda fucked with that right now). If you’re talking about who represents the views of the democratic party, it’s difficult to find someone who represents them better than Pelosi.
Instead of valid definition I should have said a “good definition”. There is no real definition of a “true Democrat” or vice versa for Republicans. Both your definition and my definition are valid definitions.
The other option is to slowly replace the members of the party in positions of power. Why do you think AOC is encouraging young people to run for office? She has the right idea.
The fact of the matter is that the US has a two party political system. This isn’t changing unless one of the parties gains power and essentially gives it up to implement a new system.
Another fact is that young people aren’t running for office so all of our politicians are part of the gerontocracy and all hold particular views from having been born in a generation most of us no longer relate with.
The only way to change things is to get young people into office at the lower levels and work their way up by building political careers until they are the ones in the positions of power in the DNC.
The ones who will hold the reins and make change happen are the ones who actually decide to run for office. This is the system of the United States that allows it’s citizens to control what happens in the higher echelons of government.
Yes voting is a part of it but it sounds like you are unhappy with the choices you are given to vote for and that’s purely because the people you would like to vote for are not running for office and winning. If they are running and not winning that is because they are not popular with the public which is another conversation but I think the majority of you are getting stuck in the “not feeling like doing anything but protesting” phase and not actually running for office.
You know “centrist” is not a political party, right? Fuckin kids these days, what are they teaching you…
Literally nothing considering I’m an adult these days. But how’s being a smug ass hat been going for ya?
Better than not being one, I guess
Sounds like you don’t know what a Dem is
And that perfectly represents the party as a whole.