• OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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    16 days ago

    I am neurodivergent, but I’m not prepared to accept the implication that neurotypical people lack moral agency. Anyone is capable of thinking critically about their behavior and changing it. Not every vegan is neurodivergent.

    • Zensate@lemmy.world
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      16 days ago

      You do not need to be neurodivergent to be vegan, but if you have arrived at veganism through rationality, you are neurodivergent.

      Neurodivergents have very strong empathy, so it is nearly psychologically impossible to see neurotypicals for what the really are. The truth is simply too painful that even though confronted with it thousands of times, and hurt deeply by it, most neurodivergents prefer the delusion to reality.

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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        16 days ago

        So you’re really advancing this idea that all neurotypicals are essentially p-zombies? That every moral philosopher or moral person in history was secretly neurodivergent?

        • Zensate@lemmy.world
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          16 days ago

          What do you mean “advancing”? Every great person in history was clearly neurodivergent. They were clearly described as weird even for their time.

          And of course every moral person was neurodivergent? Why do you think moral people are emphasized in our history? Why do you think people talking about morals are emphasized in our history? Do you think that’s because morals are normal?

          If someone was moral it was noteworthy, because it was abnormal. They were literally divergent.

          • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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            16 days ago

            That’s a ridiculous perspective. It’s basically eugenics. Moral people do not just have some innate mental quality that causes them to be moral.

            • Zensate@lemmy.world
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              16 days ago

              They do, and it’s been studied too. People with autism for example both score higher on a sense of justice and a willingness to go against peer-pressure to uphold it.

              The famous Milgram experiment showed how neurotypicals were even willing to harm people as long as an authority told them to do so.

              It’s not a perspective, it’s established science.

              But you already knew this, right? If you are neurodivergent you can’t have failed to observe this, regardless of your desire to live in a positive delusion. Reality is not so easily tuned out.

              • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                16 days ago

                No I don’t “already know this” because it’s not true. Trying to pass off your conspiracy theory as “established science” is utterly laughable.

                People with autism for example both score higher on a sense of justice and a willingness to go against peer-pressure to uphold it.

                That is only a trend. It doesn’t mean that neurotypicals are incapable of caring about justice or acting upon it, or that neurodivergent people aren’t subject to peer-pressure.

                The famous Milgram experiment

                The Miligram experiment? Are you seriously trying to cite that to show “established science?” That’s utterly ridiculous. The Miligram was unethical, unscientific, and not replicable. It’s junk data. You’ll just latch onto anything that supports your bullshit thesis. Is there even evidence to show that all the participants in that experiment were neurotypical, or is that just something you assumed because it fits with what you want to believe? Not that it even matters since the “experiment” failed to meet very basic scientific standards.

                But you already knew this, right?

                But you already knew that the moon is made of cheese and that Bill Gates is secretly a lizard person right? Don’t try to justify your conspiracy theory by acting like it’s “common sense.” What you’re claiming is complete and total bullshit.

                • Zensate@lemmy.world
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                  16 days ago

                  Discussions are meant to be in the service of uncovering the truth, but you went and got angry and now perceive this discussion as a fight for your sense of self.

                  This doesn’t lead us anywhere, and regardless of who wins this perceived “fight” the truth will lose either way.

                  You take the time you need to settle back into clarity and then write a new reply, and we will doubtlessly get a fruitful conversation out of it.

                  And in the future don’t be so willing to give away your emotional clarity, it is your most precious possession.

                  • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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                    16 days ago

                    Jesus Christ, could you be any more condescending? First it’s, “But you already know I’m right, don’t you?” and now it’s, “You’re so emotional and defensive, you can see anything clearly if you don’t control your emotions.”

                    Have you even considered the possibility that you could be wrong, and that my points are actually valid? The Miligram experiment is trash and it will always be trash regardless of my emotional state. Neurotypical people have moral agency and will continue to have moral agency regardless of my emotional state.

                    Yes, I’m frustrated with this discussion, but that’s because you are not being rational.