It’s worth noting that in the 1990’s while the rest of easter EUR, particularly PO, RO, and CZ tweaked their economies and societies in whatever way was necessary at the time in order to get their asses into NATO and the EU, Ukraine spent 30 years dawdling, unsure if they wanted to face east or west. Shame on them for that. They created their own monster by being irresolute, unlike the Poles and Romanians who also HATE Russia, know history, in some respects share a common history with all of eastern EUR, and see very clearly. A fair amount of UKR’s indecision was due to Russian meddling in politics there, but by the time UKR woke the fuck up about Russia’s nature and intentions it was almost too late. That timeline takes us to the year 2022, approximately. UKR is still corrupt as fuck, nobody knows who can be trusted and they are putting tremendous effort into reforming their legal system, politics and military structures to conform with EU/NATO norms. If they had been this decided (instead of divided) back in 2014, they’d have been in the EU AND NATO by now. They are paying the price for their dawdling and indecision, fuelled mainly by post-soviet corruption mentality which they are rueing and repenting of almost too late…
I say this as someone who actually supports Ukraine. But I am not blind to their faults, either.
Ukrainians decided to stay in the Soviet Union. That’s rejected and thrown out and the nation dissolved by one drunken imbecile. Ukrainians decided to leave the Russian Federation. That’s fine, it seems. Ukrainians choose a government that doesn’t choose Europe. They’re overthrown in a U.S. backed fascist coup. Eastern Ukrainians democratically choose to secede. That’s rejected by the West and the coup government. What’s left of Ukraine chooses a peace candidate. He has no control and the Nazi’s just keep fighting. Now Ukrainians can’t vote at all.
Ukrainians faults are in our stars and stripes. America did this. America always does it.
So you’re saying in soviet union a single person could force the entirety of its people against their will? Were you ever outside of america?
They voted and that Pizza Hut loving drunk threw it out. Not democracy.
When was there democracy in Soviet Union?
Are you really this ignorant?
No, I live here, you ignorant imperiliast westsplaining shit.
You live there and you are ignorant of your own history? I don’t think that’s the flex you think it is.
What do you think of TCC conscription thugs abducting men off the streets kicking and screaming, they’re wives and daughters desperately trying to pry them away? We have this here too. They’re called ICE agents.
Why are men dressing as old ladies just to commute to work? Why are men drowning in rivers trying to escape this death cult?
Soon it will be just Western supplies robots fighting over fields of your men’s corpses.
And for what? Ethnonationalism? Generational IMF AND war debt? A flag of piss and tears?
Fuck that.
Well they had the downside of the russian army being at their borders and a massive russian speaking minority …
this is also true. but they also lacked direction and a national sense of self… right up until the last minute when Russia was about to swallow them and the jaws were closing. If they had that sense 10 or 20 years earlier they’de be in a different situation. Russia’s actions are Russian/Commie imperialism 101… take an ethnically or politically divided state and invade it. slowly. Maybe UKR will be better as a divided state. For some bizarre reason, the further south and east you go in EUR the more the Slavs in those regions love their mono-ethnic states, for some reason. Even to the degree of cutting off their noses to spite their faces. Something fundamentally warped about the Slavic mind.
The palestinians also did not have a national sense of self untill they were occupied for the better half of a century … The german national identity needed Napoleon to really take of (and many more work Like that )
And ‘mono ethnic states’ was bog standart for emerging nationalnstates - it just took some.places longer to create a national state and the according nationalism - hardly anything specific about ‘the slavic mind’
What about “Palestinians” “occupied” “under the Turks” for 1200 years during the Ottoman Empire. The Era that immediately pre-dates the 20th century. No national consciousness to speak of for centuries when ruled by non-arab Turks who still consider Arabs to be lesser than Turks. Add a few non-muslim European-ish Jews to the land and suddenly Palis have a national consciousness where they never had one before? It seems to be forgotten that BOTH sides- Israeli AND Palestinians walked away from the UN plan in 1948. I guess they wanted to settle it themselves, out in the streets. Well, now after 80 years we see who is winning. It’s not fair to cry foul now. Both sides gave up that option back in 1948.
