appreciate the real-time example of wrecker behavior in action
Yup this person achieved that any mentions of the PSL get ban on Hexbear
Edit: Now PSL is banned from Hexbear thanks to this wrecker.
This is the reason why I don’t do big tent forums because western leftists can be swayed by undialectical thinking and shock politics
Could you explain what you mean?
You have political disagreements with how the party is structured and practices democracy. You take it upon yourself to spread this article which was specifically written and released in coordination with a splitter faction and weaponized for the purpose of trying to destroy an actual socialist party. You can say all you want that that’s not the point, and that’s not why you’re doing it, but those are objective facts. I’m glad the faction was purged, purges are good and necessary. The vast majority of remaining comrades in fact support the continued struggle to improve the structures and operations of the party that have been developing continuously, on the basis of democratic centralism, before and since 2020.
this article which was specifically written and released in coordination with a splitter faction and weaponized for the purpose of trying to destroy an actual socialist party
Marissa cleanly responds to this claim by the Central Committee of the PSL by saying the following in her followup article:
Even if it were true, it doesn’t undermine the claims present as they’re factual and undisputed by the Central Committee of the PSL. Further, to continue to re-affirm this point despite her saying exactly the opposite is to continue to imbibe the perspective of the victimizer over the victimized
I’m glad the faction was purged, purges are good and necessary
True in the abstract that purges are necessary, but if that’s how you feel about a struggle based on whether sexual assault should be handled seriously; I think you are espousing misogynistic beliefs and are a liability to any really existing socialist and communist movement you may align yourself with
The vast majority of remaining comrades in fact support the continued struggle to improve the structures and operations of the party that have been developing continuously, on the basis of democratic centralism, before and since 2020
My branch went from ~40 members to internals with ~8 attendants tops, including the 4 member steering committee. Just because party members remained does not mean that this is the correct line, merely the one which has been enforced
My experience is based neither on what Marissa said nor what the CC said. It’s based on my actual experience with the wrecker faction. Perhaps because that firsthand evidence is apparent to me and my comrades in my (very large) locality, hardly anybody left and there was very little disruption in our operations. The evidence before me is that sexual assault is handled very seriously within the party, especially compared to what I’ve witnessed in other orgs, and certainly compared with what I’ve experienced within bourgeois institutions. I’ve witnessed the faction circulating this article the moment it was published, and seen credible evidence that this coordination was taking place for months in advance.
As a woman in the party, I have never been a part of an organization that takes misogynistic attitudes and patriarchal violence more seriously. It’s extremely disingenuous to proclaim with your limited evidence and perspective that anyone advocating for anything other than the dismantlement of the organization is a misogynist.
I’m glad you didn’t experience what I did, but I do have to agree that the PSL has handled these matters better in some ways than local formations which arose here where I live (and were a big part of why I wanted to join and organize something with serious self-protecting institutions). It’s why I participated in the hard work of building a branch from the ground up, I had been victimized prior and I understood the importance of learning from mistakes and practice and creating institutions like the NDC. However, the evidence that exists before me now in the form of these articles is that sexual assault is not currently handled with the seriousness that it deserves; and further that evolution on this matter has been distinctly cut off by the Central Committee as they’ve made it a distinct part of “discipline” and “the party line” to re-affirm that the PSL has not done wrong in this case.
Further, you’re putting words in my mouth of saying “anyone advocating for anything other than the dismantlement of the organization is a misogynist”. I didn’t say that you were being misogynistic because you are still in the PSL or think that it should not be abolished but instead perhaps reformed, I don’t know what’s in your heart, but when you call me a wrecker for bringing attention to Sexual Assault, and also discredit Marissa as just being a factionalist instead of earnestly trying to give a report of what her experience was and how it ought to inform principled cadre, that is misogyny. It’s misogyny to slander her and discredit her as a survivor and someone coming out about a matter that she was made to hide over time. If you think my perspective is so limited, tell me, how many branches do you know of Chris Banks jumping around in across the country? Pensacola, FL; Dallas Fort Worth, TX; Atlanta, GA; how many other branches did the Central Committee of the party put him in every time he was in the middle of a sexual misconduct scandal? Since you know so much you might know of more branches than me.
Just because wreckers do exist and can use this doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to re-affirm it without question. The stance that this is nothing but a hatchet job is, I’m sorry, self defeating and does no favors to anyone externally who’s looking in on this. The Black Panthers and the BLA were dismantled piecemeal by the Feds through COINTELPRO because they had significant internal contradictions they were not able to meaningfully work through. You’re not doing yourself or your party any favors by pretending that internal contradictions don’t exist or that evolution is still a constant struggle which has to be struggled for, these are the basic matters of Dialectical Materialism. If you’ve not been expelled, you should earnestly try to make the PSL better in it’s practice of democratic centralism and it’s democratic institutions internal to the party, because that’s the primary contradiction holding it back. Once those developments occur, matters like this will no longer have the same punch, and any principled Marxist would be able to see that an imperfect organization has clearly tried to evolve as all imperfect but earnest projects ought to do. In the mean time, when you dismiss and slander those who come out about their experiences and discuss these matters, you’re engaging inremoved culture, and you’re doing the work of the U.S. Government by preventing the PSL from evolving into the party it ought to be.
I’ve been trying to wrap my head around this kind of thing as an issue. The way I’m trying to make sense of it is to break it down roughly into the following groups people tend to fall into when reacting to this kind of thing (keeping in mind there may be crossover and people may change from one instance to the next):
- skeptics: they are genuinely concerned and believe these kind of issues do, in fact, happen to women a lot but are hesitant to take claims at face value with how high the stakes can be in the context of political organizing
- pragmatists: their primary concern is disciplined, organized practice and things that seem to fall outside of that are seen as making trouble
- moralists: their primary concern is believing the victim as a principled stand against a culture that tends to turn a blind eye to victims so often
- patriarchs: they don’t actually care but find it useful to hide behind the arguments of the skeptics and pragmatists when convenient
- wreckers: they can take on the appearance of any, depending on what the aim is, but ultimately the goal is to scare people away from organizing, foment distrust, and pit people against each other
Note that I draw out these labels not as a means of separating people, but as a means of trying to better understand why people don’t appear unified on this kind of thing. And why people can appear at each other’s throats about it, while the people involved in the discussion generally appear sincere and dedicated to the cause. Or why people can appear like they’re a wrecker when they’re being more of a moralist. Or appear like a patriarch when they’re being more of a skeptic.
It’s not that I think one of these approaches is inherently superior and the rest must go. It’s more like, I think people are being needlessly pushed toward conflicting ends on purpose, as a means of making it harder to resolve conflicts. What drives this splintering, I’m not entirely sure, but it appears to be a repeating theme. Figuring out what’s going on there, and resolving it with some kind of synthesized ideological line on claims of SA, seems more fundamental of a struggle than arguing on the internet over any one reported incident.
So wheres this utopian non problematic party we should ditch them for? I rather fix them which is actually doable then even try to reform the DNC or DSA .
It doesn’t exist; but it’s not utopian to frankly speak about the matters which the PSL faces. Given that no alternative arises in the meantime, if these issues were actually faced I’d much rather rejoin and continue to build what exists there given the sophistication of their institutions; however, it’s all undercut as long as this obvious issue goes unaddressed. If the PSL can not build out the democratic centralist practice to be able to address matters like this it’s dead in the water and it’s better these issues are talked about frankly to inform any other parties or pre-party cadre organizations which have started and will arise as time goes on.
In Denver, if you get 100 people to donate at least $5 to your campaign, the Fair Elections Fund will match that money 9x over.
