Just learned about the Kaprun disaster in which 155 people lost their lives when an underground train caught fire.

There were only 12 survivors all of whom followed the advice of a retired firefighter who advised them to run downhill through the flames in the rear of the train.

The steep incline of the tunnel acted as a blast furnace that sucked in fresh air from the low end and funneled toxic smoke to the high end.

Not sure how applicable this will be to anyone here, but I thought it a great example of how a little more widespread knowledge of how fire works could have saved a lot of lives.

Tl;dr fire bad but smoke worse. Get to fresh air.

  • Encrypt-Keeper@lemmy.world
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    12 hours ago

    The key part of fire behavior to understand here is how exactly a fire goes about consuming oxygen and exhausting heat and smoke in an enclosed space.

    Fire will always need to pull oxygen in, and push heat and smoke out. Oxygen and the cooler air it makes up will always be pulled in on a lower plane than the heat and smoke it pushes out, which as many people know rises. The way this affects the space you’re in and therefore where you want to be (Besides you know, out) is dependent on how many openings to the outside space there are and where they’re located.

    If there are two or more openings to the outside space at different elevations, the fire will pull the cool oxygenated air in the lower opening, and push the heat and smoke out the upper opening. This is known as the chimney affect, and as you may have guessed from the name is how fireplaces work. This is why you can have a fire inside your home without dying from smoke inhalation, all the smoke and a lot of the heat is going straight up and out of the chimney, as the fire pulls oxygen in from your living room. This creates a negative pressure in your living space that prevents the smoke from emptying into it, and you just keep the horizontal radiant heat.

    If there is just one opening, the fire will have to share that opening between those two functions. The lower half of that opening will be pulling cool air in, and the upper half will be pushing heat and smoke out. If you saw this in person you can actually see the exact line between these two things happening which is called the neutral plane, and you want to stay below it at all times.

    There is however a danger here, which is that a single opening like this, often a set of basement stairs in a house fire where the fire is in the basement, allows access down to where the fire is by firefighters, provided they stay below that neutral plane, but only as long as that remains the only opening. Firefighters can and have died fighting their way down basement stairs meanwhile a small basement window below grade is broken either by the pressure generated by the fire or even a fellow firefighter breaking it for ventilation without due regard for the firefighters inside. This turns that window into the point the cool air comes in and the neutral plane on the stairs disappears and the entire staircase becomes a chimney of superheated air and smoke top to bottom, likely killing anyone who remains on the stairs.

  • rustydrd@sh.itjust.works
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    24 hours ago

    Perhaps worth pointing out that the 12 who survived did not run into the fire. They broke a window and went downwards past the fire. From Wikipedia:

    Twelve people from the rear of the train broke a window with a ski pole and, advised by an escapee who had been a volunteer fire fighter, escaped downwards past the fire and below the smoke.

  • FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    I’d never taken the time to realise firefighters have to learn about physics-nonsense for their line of work. On top of having to stay really fit? That’s tough

    • FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      To be fair, do they carry around any sort of badge? Could have seemed like a crazy person to- oh it was in Austria, not New York

      • Aeao@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Regular guy seeing fire: “this is my chance to lie about being a firefighter”

        I doubt that happens often.

        • FinjaminPoach@lemmy.world
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          22 hours ago

          Tweakers and the mentally infirm. There is also a type of character who just compulsively lies about things, especially in the worst situation.

          I can see why some people wouod be unwilling to trust the advice of “run towards the fire,” regardless. Maybe the firefighter took the time to explain the ohysics briefly, in which case we have 12 survivors who understood the physics (thus could trust him) and a couple dozen or so who were less physics literate. Science saves lives!

  • cymbal_king@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Direction to go in case of a public transit fire is probably highly context dependent. The real lesson here is to follow instructions of trained emergency response personnel

    • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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      1 day ago

      The real lesson here is to follow instructions of trained emergency response personnel

      We just went through CoViD, like a week ago (a week, right? It also feels like a million years, so I’m not sure). We found that, largely, MANY people didn’t follow the sane, simple advice to lessen the load on trauma centers – “Do like a billion people in china do every day, and wear a thing on your face”. And the defiance-as-religion types didn’t die fast enough.

      NO ONE’s gonna listen to an authority on this either. I’d want them all to run into the zombie horde and stare them down or something like hillbilly tough guys, but I need someone to farm the bran in my good, good, whole-wheat shreddies.