To be honest, this is just a signal that she probably wouldn’t have been a good leader. Better than Trump, sure, but that bar is so low it’s a tripping hazard.
She should have told Biden to pound sand after locking up the nomination.
But we should verify the claim before passing judgement.
Honestly, her campaign already signaled that. This, if true, just reinforces it. It also reinforces that Biden was a bad leader, which he was.
Obligatory: I voted for Harris and Biden and dems down ticket every election since I’ve been old enough to vote.
Blaming Biden makes sense. Blame the problems on the actual person in charge. Harris wasn’t in charge, she should’ve let Biden take all of the failures of the term, regardless of her position at the time
No democrat president has been “in charge” in 50+ years.
The owners of the DNC have been in charge.
Obligatory: I voted for Harris and Biden and dems down ticket every election since I’ve been old enough to vote.
Man I am getting sick of needing to say this ahead of time/to anyone who goes “well if you criticized our candidates of their serious and actual issues, you must be a Republican!”
Definitely. And as soon as you say something leftist you’re accused of not voting or “throwing away your vote” so you can’t complain. Like, I get it. “Have the day you voted for” etc, but libs are pointing fingers at the wrong people. I’ve said it like a million times before, but sooo many of my leftist friends reluctantly voted Kamala when they were vehemently opposed to her stance on Palestine and now feel like they sold out for nothing. Like, at least if they hadn’t voted they could say they stood for something. Now they don’t even have a high horse to ride into the apocalypse on. The way libs will break your spirit is wild. They have more energy to fight leftists than republicans.
As far as I’m aware, Biden controlled most of the campaign money at least initially. either way it’s still a pretty weak excuse for Harris.
Biden really fucked us in so many ways though, I’m happy to blame him for losing the election as well. I mean he was the one who thought gaslighting us about the economy was a winning move, he put Harris in a terrible position to begin with. Not to mention deciding to run again in the first place, appointing a Trump collaborator as AF, refusing to exercise his power, etc etc
If I was kamala I would have slammed joe. For the good of the country, of course.
I think the best move would have been a substantial but firm and respectful break was the way to go forward.
If Kamala pushes back too hard against Joe, the establishment will question whether she grateful for his support and the opportunity he provided.
Let’s blame Joe so Kamala can run again.
Not fooling me, DNC. I smell what you’re cooking.
I want to tell myself that there’s no way in hell they would let this happen, let alone make it happen.
Then I remember it’s the DNC.
It’s not like they colluded to kneecap Bernie’s campaign. Wait…
Twice.
Kamala or Buttigeig, you can bet on it.
Seriously, go to Vegas. At least you’ll make money on the end of the world.
Buttigeig is likely going to run given that he is giving up his chance at a Senate seat.
I feel like Walz is going to run as well. He’s been showing up in national media a lot and seems to be becoming the face of the opposition.
Newsom seems like he’s going to run as well, but he’s been making terrible choices recently.
Newsom seems like he’s going to run as well, but he’s been making terrible choices recently.
Yeah, he’s trying to become the preordained nominee by making choices party leadership likes.
This guy gets it. Speaking as a Californian, this is exactly, precisely what’s happening. I don’t use this term a lot because it resurfaces trauma of not realizing I was posting in a thread on Hexbear, but Newsom is straight up the textbook definition of a shitlib. He’s always kinda been a shitlib, with a ratio of one kinda okay decision to like four disappointing, mediocre, and shitty decisions that make the wealthy and corporate donors happy. Now that he sees a path to the presidency laid bare, he’s fully embracing his shitlib instincts. Please, for the love of Buddha, don’t vote for him in the primary.
Please, for the love of Buddha, don’t vote for him in the primary.
As though primary votes matter. The party successfully argued in court that they don’t.
You can always count on Ensign_Crab to twist the knife one last time. Gotta make sure they’re demoralized.
Yeah, Walz refuses to announce (like they always do) but you don’t make the amount of noise he is without gearing up for something. I don’t think there’s any way he doesn’t run, and currently he might even be my favorite of those that I’m confident will run. We’ve got a while before the next presidential election though, so anything could happen and I can’t really be bothered thinking about.
Same reaction here, and the DNC is just dumb enough to do it.
Well, there probably won’t be any more elections, so there’s that.
Yeah, I bet we won’t even have mid terms in 2 years
She’s free to run again, but this time she has to win the primary. And that’s unlikely. It’s rare in modern times for someone to lose a Presidential election and get another shot at it, Nixon and Trump are the only two in over a hundred years.
You seem to forget what they did to sanders. If they want a specific candidate they will make sure they win.
Also Adlai Stevenson in the 50s although he lost both times.
I can believe this. She seemed frustrated when she spoke about the Palestine situation, and I picked up a strong subject that she wanted to say more about her objections over Israel’s actions than she did.
Yeah, but that didnt bode well for her as a president…
She was the candidate, crowned with zero primary weeks before the election, with zero threat of being replaced.
But she stuck line by line to what Bidens team said
Buden’s team that was Hillary’s team, and before that Bill’s team.
Kamala would have been an empty suit for the same neoliberal machine and she would have appointed the DNC chair back to that faction so they could influence the primary in four years.
If Kamala literally had to say exactly what her advisors said when she was literally irreplaceable, she would have been a president in name only.
Don’t get me wrong, I held my nose and voted D like always, but I knew she was fucking it up, and long term that might have been for the best.
Tim Walz came out swinging, and they instantly sidelined him.
That alone was enough to say that the campaign was fucked.
Quick, hide Tim Walz, he’s too popular with voters!
-Neoliberals apparently
I still want Ken Martin to publicly commit to ending the Victory Fund bullshit tho.
“She was the candidate, crowned with zero primary weeks before the election, with zero threat of being replaced.”
No primary? There was a primary. Biden/Harris won that primary election as Phillips dropped out fairly early. What do you mean by “no primary”
Had Biden died on the campaign trail Harris would have been instantly the candidate. The situation with him stepping aside isn’t really any different. There was a primary and Biden/Harris won that primary.
No primary? There was a primary
And the state who literally has a law that they go first had their delegates stripped for not violating their own state law…
That’s how the “primary” started.
I don’t think I need to give any other examples after that.
The situation with him stepping aside isn’t really any different.
It’s different because DNC leaders, Bidens campaign team, his current admin, and various media organizations (owned by billionaire conservatives) colluded to hide Biden’s mental decline literally since he assumed office and all the way up to the last possible second
The neoliberals really did a weekend at Bernie’s and no one with the power to stop it gave a fuck because he had a D by his name.
That is how Republicans became president.
Quick edit:
Seriously, the same people we know lied about Biden and used an elderly mentally unwell person as their puppet were still going to be calling the same shit
How is that any different than what Reagan was?
I can almost accept some people don’t want them to face criminal charges, but you think giving them the country again would be better?
Kamala was somewhat of a Zionist, but not enough to justify Israel’s bombings. Because she wants a two-state solution, and if she had been president, she would probably criticize Netanyahu for his actions damaging Israel.
A strategy to avoid AIPAC considering you a threat.
I don’t know if I can buy that when the DNC refused to let anyone with even a hint of background from the middle east get a platform, and when a protest at a speech happened, she said “I am speaking.” Not listening, speaking.
“Didn’t allow her” what does that even mean, in the context of the campaign? What the actual fuck was she doing listening to ANYTHING from Biden at that point? He was a clear looser. He stepped back from the campaign (after he was forced to, but he did nonetheless). That was an incredibly obvious opportunity for Harris to openly and cleanly split from policies she thought were wrongheaded - but nope, can’t have that. Jesus tapdancing christ.
Biden’s hubris put us here, I guess. What an unmitigated fucking tool. He sold us down the river and expects to be remembered fondly by history? Fuck that. The title of his subsection in history books will be “The President who Couldn’t Keep the Republic” (a pointed reference to Ben Franklin’s quip at the original constitutional convention).
The pressure the DNC seems to exert over it’s canidates is insane. There was probably a lot of pressure on her to toe the line. I heard they reigned in Walz quite a bit too.
Maybe one day the DNC will learn
I don’t expect the DNC to learn, because I don’t expect the DNC to exist when the next presidential election comes around.
^, I am both interested and terrified to see what the next few years bring. It’s only the beginning, and the ride continues to get even more wild in all the worst ways.
I am living the next 6-12 months with a very sharp eye on the answer to the question “how quickly can I permanently get the fuck out of the country”.
It’s fucking bizarre that Trump “randomly” ran as a Republican in 2016, and I can recall the fact that the RNC was trying to keep Jeb and Ted Cruz because they thought they would be a better/saner choice, until he had enough votes from the primaries.
He just kinda came from under their noses until they realized “Wait we like this, he is a dipshit we can buy and he does shit on camera for free press! Free advertising for fascism, score!”
I wish I had a portal to look at another timeline to see if someone in the DNC just didn’t bother kneecaping Bernie in 2016 and had the general magnetizing force of him looking for all working class people, including those swindled by Republican brainfuckery. Might have been in a better place for America, even for one term.
The last time that happened was 2000 with Bush v Gore. The longstanding notion was that the VP of the current administration should not really “break ranks” with the current administration. It was seen as undermining their boss essentially.
This was in less fucked up times, mind you. But that at one time was how it was “supposed” to work. Personally I’m a firm believer that “that’s how it’s always been done” is fucking stupid.
It’s good to understand why things have been done that way. Sometimes there’s wisdom in the way things have been done, and lessons learned by people who paid real costs to learn them. Sometimes the reasoning is so bad that doing things differently for its own sake is a reasonable decision. You don’t know unless you dig deeper, and not digging deeper on things that matter seems pretty dumb
It’s good to understand, but if the only answer you get is “it’s always been done this way” odds are it’s bad. If there was a good reason, that’s the reason you’d get.
Yeah absolutely, not providing a good reason is really easy to do when there isn’t one
The way democrats talk: “We’re turning the page and letting the daylight in!”
The way democrats act with a majority: “We couldn’t get any daylight this time, but we did pass these bipartisan flashlights which are known to explode occasionally due to republicans demanding amendments be added to the batteries.”
“We’ve also means tested the flashlights, so those who recall the time before the great darkness get less of the flashlights, and anyone who has flashlights that explode will be required to have a daily check of their pupils to ensure they’ve been good at not looking at the daylight.”
This is hilarious, because of Biden’s “I’d have won if I was the candidate” bullshit. More like “Harris might have won if I wasn’t hamstringing her”, but okay, sure, Joe. Let’s get you to bed, now.
I’m calling bullshit on this.
There’s no possible way that Biden or any of his people could let or not let Harris do anything. They had no actual control over her campaign.
The only outsiders who had any control over her campaign were the DNC and the party establishment - the same pieces of shit who torpedoed Sanders in 2016 and 2020,.
I’m 100% certain that this narrative is coming from them, trying to dodge the blame they so richly deserve by pinning it on the senile guy.
Bruh …
You realize at the time the Venn diagram of people you’re complaining about was basically a solar eclipse, right?
And that after that we got a new DNC chair which completely changes the organization?
You’re literally doing what the neoliberals want and letting them off the hook and blaming our new chair who is more progressive than any other DNC chair in the past 30 years since neoliberalism took over.
Like, the fight over the party is over, we won…
Now we have to back the new progressive version of the party or neoliberals will claw it back when no one’s paying attention.
It’s like hating the Patriots because Bellicheck was an asshole, you’re right, but he’s fucking gone and there’s a new coach.
And that after that we got a new DNC chair which completely changes the organization?
I’m calling bullshit on that too.
The time for leadership is right now, when the US is facing the greatest threat in modern history and the Democratic party is at the forefront of organizations that can and should step up.
And they very much have NOT. That, all by itself, amply proves that while the names may have changed, the organization hasn’t. Even in this extreme hour of need, they’ve painfully obviously chosen to do fuck-all.
I’m entirely comfortable presuming that the neoliberals have never let go, and they’re already astroturfing their counter to the inevitable criticisms that are going to come when they yet again run on a platform of being not the Republicans, and of being just barely to their left. Just as they’ve done in the past, they’re going to blame their inevitable failure on us. Just as in the past, it’s not going to be that they’re corrupt sacks of shit wholly owned by moneyed interests and willing to lose an election rather than risk reducing the flow of soft money - it’s going to be that we didn’t go ahead and support them anyway.
I have zero reason to believe that this whole song and dance about a supposedly new and progressive DNC is anything other than just a new spin on the same old con job.
Just another example of how the Democratic party is only slightly less fucked than the Republicans.
Harris was the candidate, not Biden. Being his VP should have been a boon to her, but instead she turned it into her own biggest obstacle. It was ultimately her decision to follow Biden’s directions on this.
It’s not like the sitting president can order a party’s candidate to take certain policy positions, even if that candidate is the sitting VP. Biden deserves a ton of the blame for our current situation, but Harris was the candidate and she decided to follow Biden’s terrible advice. He’s just the stubborn geriatric who cared more about his legacy than the peoples’ future.
Honestly, I kinda don’t buy the idea Biden controlled Harris. Biden could have in 2008, but not in 2024. We all saw his term. He could be great, but when he slowed and floundered, it hampered his goals.
I’m torn between:
“I don’t think an adult woman would instantly bind herself to an old man, she can have bad ideas on her own.”
“I don’t think she had everything planned out, she took advice from those around her, and the advice was shit but it’s hard to get anything from outside this POV without getting even worse feedback.”
But either way, I’m kind of glad that parts of the DNC is admitting fault after royally fucking up a second time and giving us Trump again. But I was also told they learned mistakes from 2016, and clearly they didn’t, and must have fired everyone who did.
I wish Harris won merely as a stop-gap who is younger and more coherent, maybe could have gotten someone better next primary. Would have been messy and I would prefer anyone else, but not as bad. But it wouldn’t have stopped the fascist uprising we’re having, just keeping the cyst growing until it popped. If Biden didn’t get Trump arrested, I doubt Harris would have, despite her history.
we’re never going to see an end to the risk of fascism until we end capitalism, and it’s as simple as that.
money is power, and if corporations and individuals can hoard wealth infinitely, it’s only a matter of time until enough of that wealth is accumulated in few enough hands for those few to use their wealth to take control of the state
I wish she had won too. Didn’t really like her but she was miles ahead of trump. I don’t think you should be torn between the two, I think it was both. She listened to some very bad advice and believed the information she had at hand.
The woman who refused to against what a Man said would have made a STRONG Leader!
Her position regarding Palestine and Israel cost her the election. Many Dems could not vote for her, so they didn’t vote.
I’d really love for that to be the case (enough people caring about genocide to decide an election), but it just isn’t. The data shows that people on the left still came out to vote and she lost a bunch of centrist votes or people who are seen as “low information”/unmotivated voters. Those people don’t care about Palestine. They thought she was weird, or a DEI candidate, or just weren’t inspired to get up and vote for her. I’m not saying she needs to go more centrist, but people like populism and she just didn’t do it.
I can’t remember the source, but the number 1 issue in every swing state other than Michigan (which had Palestine as its #1) among democrat nonvoters and centrists who voted republican was grocery prices. Most of those states had inflation as their number 2 issue and Palestine as the third. Palestine alone wouldn’t have been enough to swing any state other than Michigan.
I think its pretty clear that the primary reason Kamala lost because she didn’t present a vision for the economy. She literally just said that the economy is fine. Inflation and grocery prices? Ignore those!
Inflation maybe shouldn’t have been as big of an issue since it was below 3% and on its way down but it was still a concern for a large number of voters.
I agree for the most part, but she did have some milquetoast neolib proposals that would have helped. Mostly things already seen in one form or another in Bidens build back better plan, but honestly it didn’t matter. Her rhetoric was weak and her campaign was poorly managed. I saw SOOOO many ads requesting donations (lady, I don’t have money to buy eggs and you’re buying ad space, the optics are bad) and not one of them said anything of substance. I say time and again that Bernie got people to donate time and money they didn’t have because they believed in his message. Kamala had no message. She had some plans, sure, but did not effectively communicate them. They were too little too late regardless, but it felt like her ads were lazy cash grabs that couldn’t even be bothered to give out empty promises.
There have been multiple reports on this issue indicating that you’re wrong and the previous claim was correct. But nobody knows for sure. If she had flipped positions, perhaps some people would have been turned off and they would have called her a flip-flopper.
And obviously there were many other reasons that she lost. We don’t get to blame it on just one.
horseshit
she had multiple chances like at the DNC convention
“they puppeted me poorly”
As usual the democratic party fails because it’s trying to be both progressive AND cater to wealthy donors. Those two things just don’t go together. Either abandon the upper class, or resign yourself to diametrically opposed rhetoric that will NEVER win an election for the Dems.
It’s not remotely trying to be progressive. It’s cosplaying as caring while raking in them donor dollars.
So if Biden had allowed Kamala Harris to have her own narrative, would she have won the presidency?
