Meh, all I remember of what the Bible says of heaven is it will be none stop worshipping of god. Like hillsong forever or something.
Heaven is described as being populated by perfected people, not by their own doing… The world we live in is populated by selfish people primarily. Hell even toddlers are selfish. It’s a redefinition of human nature. Whether or not it’s a fantasy, it would actually make it work flawlessly.
I know that’s not your point, I just want to point out that toddlers aren’t selfish as much as they just haven’t developed empathy yet, as a sense of empathy usually only develops after the 4th birthday. The golden rule just doesn’t work for toddlers, they can’t put themselves in someone else’s shoes and imagine how they feel. There’s a riddle/test with a doll and a closet that illustrates this well.
Well if we turned earth into heaven, then there would be no reason for anyone to convert, duh
There are plenty of Christians who specifically and deliberately oppose attempting to make life on earth more like heaven. They’re not being hypocrites for this, this is their belief system. To disagree with them is to wade into a theological debate, not just a political one.
Jesus was a socialist
Jesus was a first century Jew, he was almost certainly not a socialist.
Agree.
Communism in theory: A stateless, classless, moneyless utopia where everyone shares resources based on need. Communism in practice: Authoritarian regimes, economic inefficiency, suppression of dissent, and a state that never ‘withers away’ like Marx imagined.
Every major attempt, USSR, Maoist China, Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, has resulted in centralized power, mass repression, and economic collapse. The problem isn’t just ‘bad leaders’; it’s that a system requiring absolute cooperation and selflessness on a societal scale is fundamentally unworkable. Human nature, resource scarcity, and the need for incentives all get in the way.
So yeah, communism sounds nice on paper, but history proves it turns into a dystopia instead of a utopia every time.
We need to stop idealizing communism because it doesn’t work.
Unchecked capitalism also leads to bad outcomes, including ecological collapse.
We need something that isn’t “a handful of people have all the power”
Social democratic republic with heavy consumer backed regulation and woodchippers
It would be important that the regulation is constantly protected. The forces of greed will constantly be trying to dismantle it, and people are kind of stupid.
Maybe the woodchippers do some of the heavy lifting there, but you then need to make sure they don’t get used for evil
Democracy requires eternal vigilance. Democracy would fall if people stop caring about elections, and the socialist policies would be dismantled along with it.
We need an overhauled political system and convince a supermajority of the country to vote infavor of a constitution that entrenches socialist values within it. (A supermajority is essential for better legitimacy, 51%-49% is very flimsy and people would doubt the results, but a 60%-40% is a very high margin and people would be less likely to doubt the results) Then we need a “Constitutional Court” with people who share those values to be seated in the court to defend the constitution.
Sort of like Germany’s “Defensive Democracy”, but with added socialist values.
But in the end, it still requires the people in power to actually do their job. (I’m not sure why Germany still haven’t banned AfD 🤔)
Probably also need to really invest in education. People don’t just magically know political theory, and a lot of bad ideas can sound good at first
Interestingly enough, it’s mostly the right wing that is anti education.
Like decentralized socialism?
Couldn’t you use that argument to disqualify most government types? I mean show me a type of government that hasn’t been perverted. Does North Korea disprove all democratic republics? I mean they call themselves a democratic republic therefore they are a republic right? That’s what you’re using as a definition to deny communism right? Hell I don’t even have to look at the worst example is there a good example of a government that hasn’t been perverted?
Based and food pilled
Human nature, resource scarcity, and the need for incentives all get in the way
For now. Why not keep looking and find a way to make it work?
That’s because of Vanguardism
China is in no way, shape, or form, a “Communist” nor “Socialist” country, it’s just State Capitalism.
No Socialist/Communist movement could be successful without democracy. People wouldn’t be able to control the means of production if there is no democracy.
I think it might have something to do with those “Christians” envisioning heaven as an implicit ethnostate.
Socialism seems ugly to them because it involves the people who seem ugly to them being cared for.
But they’d never say it out-loud; most can’t even see that’s what their twisted little hearts desire.
“Christians”
Here we go with the scare quotes again… They’re not fake Christians just because you don’t agree with their particular dogma.
Seen this clip from some american fundie podcast that was… a choice.
This person was asked something like, if you could have world peace, but all governments become socialist, would you do it? They said no and fucking justified their answer with a partial quote from something like Deuteronomy 15:7-11, claiming that well the bible says there’ll always be the poor so socialism is actually bad because of that, and a quick search to see if I could find it there’s a lot of stuff echoing the same stuff, that socialism is unbiblical etc.
What the actual fuck is wrong with these people? I’m irreligious but was raised Christian, this is so vehemently counter to my understanding of Christian teachings (the flavour of which I was raised has atheist ministers so there’s that), which was more or less, raise everyone up, accept everyone for who they are, help people, don’t turn a blind eye to injustice and like just be decent to each other. Was this podcast prosperity doctrine shit or something else because yeah wow, it’s honestly sinister to me.
They begin with the conclusion (e.g. socialism bad), and then find whatever they can in their shitty book to justify it.
Yeah, just like everything else, they are cherry picking passages that support the conclusion they’ve already reached on their own
I was raised as a fundamentalist, but I got out.
American evangelical fundamentalists firmly believe in heirarchy— children are under the authority of their mother, who is under the authority of her husband, who is under the authority of God.
They see any disruption of this heirarchy as an attack on their religion.
Taxes? You’re usurping the man’s authority to spend his money as he sees fit.
Women’s liberation? You’re usurping the man’s authority over his wife.
Entitlements? You’re usurping the man’s authority to use his pocketbook as leverage over his family.
Immigration? You’re usurping the man’s authority by lowering his cultural relevance.
LGBTQ+ acceptance? You’re usurping the man’s authority by undermining the patriarchy.
You’ve probably noticed a pattern as to who is primarily driving these issues.
Yup. Funny all the people blaming the bible like the dude up there calling it a stupid book… obviously hasn’t read it. The bible has great lessons, 90% of Christians just ignore them is all. Don’t blame the book for the idiots who claim to follow it when they actually aren’t. Even the stuff wanna be Christians quote thinking it supports their argument they are either misunderstanding or leaving out vital context. Real Christians are very rare and almost never associated with an organized church. They just quietly try to do their best they don’t try to use their belief to justify the rest of their life and bad decisions.
It sounds to me like they want to be able to give freely and not be forced by a human law.
If everybody shares there is no need for official socialism because enough resources are shared.
The difference is that the formerly poor has to be thankful.
I think they just lack vision and don’t actually want to change the real world, just dream of a better place
Oooh baby, do you know what that’s worth? Ooh, Heaven is a place on Earth
I’ve come to the conclusion that Christians that vote republic just dissociate their “church” brain vs their non “church” brain. Their religious beliefs ONLY apply to religious things. Everything else just goes to whatever their true value system is.
Nah, they’re the ones complaining jesus is too woke
I think this dude is incapable of dissociating, so he just forces his true value system onto his church beliefs. He will ignore the text that contradicts his own values. There’s definitely lots of people like that.
I mean that basically describes Christianity as a whole. The entirety of the religion throughout human history is basically people reforming it to suit their needs. True of most religions really.
You can be anything you want, so long as you go to church on Sunday and say “sorry”. For example…mafia, pedophile priests and politicians.
I don’t think most religious people have any beliefs, they just roll with whatever stances are currently popular amongst their peers. If a large enough number of their peers say their god says slavery is valid, then they will say slavery is valid, or a million other horrible things
The Bible as a text has zero issues with slavery. The Old Testament thinks it’s fine to sell your daughter. The New Testament tells slaves to submit to their masters.
Your average Christian has very little knowledge of what the Bible actually contains. Non denominational Protestant Christianity’s focus on the personal relationship with God and their interpretation of ‘Biblical literalism’ means that you just squint at the text and read what you want from it.
I remember listening to some particularly painful exegesis on David killing the Amalekite messenger being some kind of message on not tattling to your boss about things. They don’t read things in context - they read snippets and verses and work in their pop culture understandings about hell, Satan, and salvation into the text.
True, I definitely think most religious people don’t think too much about what they’re believing in.
Funny you mentioned this.
Apparently feeding school kids for free was controversial (and still is controversial).
And I watched a fellow parent on Facebook post an event about bake sales to raise money, to immediately sharing talking points about why it’s bad for kids to get free school lunches.
Heaven is an autocratic police state though
Yup. The common answer to “why does evil exist” is that humans have free will.
Therefore it follows that if there is no sin in heaven, there is also no free will.
Ssshhh, you’re not supposed to actually think it through!
Why are we censoring “communism”?
same reason people say “unalive” and “fuggen” and “child 🌽”… the Internet has become a place for self censoring idiot babies afraid of being algorithmically demonitized/banned
corporate monopolies of all popular platforms has kneecapped actual free speech by training entire generations to be afraid of violating terms of service, I guess
Alternatives:
“unalive”
in cases of homicide: “Ended [Person]'s Life”
or, in cases of suicide: “Ended their own life”
it bypasses most mainstream censors while maintaining the seriousness of it
“child 🌽”
“CSAM” is usually the term that people use these days, I don’t think the term "CSAM is censored
There’s a very easy answer that most Christian conservatives will quickly provide - God makes all things possible. Whether in its most primitive, logic-defying form, or in the more thought-out “Humans are imperfect and thus cannot run a perfect system, unlike God”, few Christians will actually be caught on the surface-level contradiction.
I don’t have an issue with communism, but with communists.
I’m kind of the opposite. I have no problem with (well intentioned and rational) communists. But if we had full blown communism with Trump in charge, it would be game over for everyone.
Does that make Trump a communist if he would actually love if the US was a communist state? Maybe I actually agree with you.
The state of communists right now is:
I know what’s good for you, you suffer from propaganda. You don’t have to vote, otherwise the people who don’t have your best interests in mind will get into power.
This has nothing to do with an ideology. It’s just the people who claim to follow this ideology are being authoritarians.
They aren’t called tankies for nothing.
Any ideology can be forced upon a society through authoritarianism. Communists aren’t popular in democracy. So they long went with the authoritarian way.
Socialism/Communism are ideologically still revolving around materialism and defining the success of the society through production and consumption.
They follow the same core pitfall as Capitalism, by seeing humans through the lens of producer and consumer.
seeing humans through the lens of producer and consumer
eh, we’re long past the point of foraging for berries to survive, we kinda have to be both. interesting take though
If i could take a moment to cite the opening to the lords prayer:
Our Father who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come.
Thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
The ability to make one being a christian not by default be a socialist as well is a continuous theological labor for the capitalist
In the eternal words of Bob Marley:
Some people think
Great God will come from the sky
Take away everything
And make everybody feel high
But if you know what life is worth
You will look for yours on earth
And now we see the light
We’re going to stand up for our right
🥰🫶🏻
