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- cross-posted to:
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The original article in German is here.
- Victor Gao, ex-interpreter to politician Deng Xiaoping and now Beijing’s mouthpiece, promotes China’s line in the West.
- In the midst of economic problems, China is trying to win back Europe as a partner - on the condition that it does not criticize Beijing.
Where other Chinese experts remain silent because the new anti-espionage law forces them to be cautious, Victor Gao [once Deng Xiaoping’s interpreter, now vice president of a government-affiliated think tank and figurehead for China’s propaganda] talks. And how. Whether CNN, BBC or al-Jazeera - everyone gets it from him, the party line, eloquently packaged and charmingly served.
[…]
His current mission: to woo Europe, while relations with the West are crumbling under the weight of Hong Kong, Taiwan, Xinjiang, corona and closing ranks with Russia.
[…]
Victor Gao demands: “Wake up from your American nightmare.” And immediately delivers the Chinese offer: less morality, more market. China as a “resource”, not a rival.
[…]
But behind the smile lurks geopolitical calculation.
After all, NATO has long been seen as the enemy, and Western democracies are described in China’s state media as decadent, refugee-ridden orders. At the same time, Gao preaches closing ranks in interviews - as long as Europe refrains from any criticism of Beijing.
[…]
Victor Gao, who translated Deng’s words into the international arena in the 1980s, embodies China’s transformation: from an aspiring reformist state to an autocratically controlled superpower under Xi Jinping.
What used to be openness is now demarcation - and yet: economic hardship is forcing China back towards rapprochement.
With the economic downturn in its own country, youth unemployment, the real estate crisis, demographic decline and mountains of debt, it now wants Europe back as a partner. Or at least as a market.
[…]
Gao describes Europe as a continent on the brink of collapse: “You have no more money at all,” he says. China, on the other hand? Ready to help. With experience, technology and growth. A kind of development aid - made in China.
But the price is high: no criticism. No geopolitics. No questions asked.
Human rights? Tibet? Xinjiang? Are elegantly omitted. Anyone who raises them is either a “gangster” financed by the USA or a naïve idealist. Gao prefers to sell the high-speed train network, the next 6G expansion and the bubbling growth figures.
Problems? “Of course there are,” he says - and immediately changes the subject.
[…]
Victor Gao says that Europe is too small to be an adversary.
But perhaps this is precisely Europe’s underestimated strength: not wanting to dominate, but to mediate between the extremes - without selling out.
Because Gao is right about one thing: the world as we know it is changing rapidly. But whether China’s charm offensive is more than just a tactical smile will be measured by whether Beijing wants genuine partnership - or just a Europe that shuts up and pays up.
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As an American:
Is China threatening to invade Greenland?
Did China just completely abandon and betray the most succesful military alliance in the modern era… in the middle of an active war involving that alliance?
Did China just completely abandon and betray the most succesful military alliance in the modern era… in the middle of an active war involving that alliance?
China is a decisive supporter of Russia in this war.
Unless I’m missing something, China is doing a lot of trade with Russia in goods that help the Russians build their own military gear…
whereas, under Biden, the US was doing that with Ukraine, and basically also just directly sending them something like half our mothball reserve military equipment, lots of ammo and arty shells, and a good deal of fancy newer stuff (HIMARS), and also very actively leveraging our intelligence assets/network to directly assist in operational planning.
In fact, Trump has about faced so extremely hard that the EU could potentially make a trade deal with China that includes the EU buying a whole lot of shit they had been selling to Russia, so that the EU can better supply its now increasingly levels of / plans for its own military production while choking off Russia’s ability to do the same.
HEY! 😡 You better get in line and show your patriotic hatred for the people who built your country! Don’t you for ONE SECOND view them as people and treat them accordingly! It’ll be a cold day in hell when I don’t get to exploit Chinese people to death. 😡🇺🇸🇪🇺
So essentially the same thing as the US 50 years ago? And in some ways, kind of like Russia 200 years ago? Except it’s progressively getting more civil.
Dealing with superpowers and empires is always unpleasant, and everyone would rather stay as far away from them as possible, but it’s not always and option. Well, it seems we either continue the cycle, and swap US partnership for China partnership (then probably same thing again in a couple decades), or we break the cycle somehow.
This is a genuinely interesting article about global politics, but I sorta get the impression there’s this underlying “Does Europe pick US or China as a trade partner?” question at the heart of it.
Seems like this pulls into very 1 dimensional view, and surely the answer is just, Europe should be sceptical of China and USA’s motives, trade wherever it’s beneficial, and push for the things it values (positive take would be workers rights, renewable energy etc).
Trump is trying push a whole pick sides narative on the world, that seems pretty ignorant to actual reality, and just ends up with everyone more fractured and weak.
How about neither? Both China and the USA have proven themselves to be unreliable trade partners. In fact, a lack of reliability is inherent in any trade relationship. The conventional theory is that trade brings prosperity (true!) and governments want to maintain that prosperity, so they have a (literally) vested interest in preserving that - and this latter part is not so true anymore these days. (We all know why of course, it’s because the prosperity is not shared equally in the USA, and China is unstable because it’s a totalitarian state that will happily immolate itself in order to save face - but this is besides the point.)
The important point is that while trade is nice because it brings greater prosperity, it also comes with security risks and as we move into a new age of geopolitics, we need to be aware of this and find a better balance between trade and security. It will be hard, because it’s so easy to be greedy and focus only on economics, but hopefully we will continue learning the lesson of finding this balance as we see more and more crazy things unfold over the course of this decade.
So strengthen ties with Japan, Taiwan, Canada and South America. Got you Poo-boy.
So… same as making deals with MAGA then.
and this is different to dealing the MAGA USA how?
PRC is a lot less likely to crash your markets and then not return your calls afterwards.
Big difference: they are smarter. So they use so much lube when they get you from behind that you almost don’t feel it
Just to be clear, you think that being wooed with enticing promises, and being sucker punched in the teeth and told to bow down, are the same thing?
no, America is a month or two from the teeth punching
So… Same as the US these days. Minus the insults, slurs and rudeness.
Exactly… just as bad but professionally done
The difference is in the US I can tweet at the presidential account calling him a dictator and the police won’t show up at my house and dissapear my family
Yes, even these days
In the beginning, even after the “Machtergreifung”, it was fairly ok to insult Hitler and make fun of the Nazis. They thought, its a form of venting for the population, preventing REAL resistance. Though, this changed later. There is a good ARTE documentary about this “Humor unterm Hakenkreuz”.
So, regarding the US… just wait a while…
That is absolutely true in China, too, I can tweet to Trump that he’s a dictator and the police won’t show up at my house and disappear my family.
Lmao ok that got me
I just saw an article about Trump accusing someone of possible treason for criticism. https://lemmy.world/post/28001455
We’ll have to see how it plays out.
do you want to test your theory?
I do lol
Ive sent @s and DMs to the official Whitehouse Twitter account telling them they are enabling a fascist oligarchy and telling them they aren’t democratically elected and will be removed from power by the American people.
Literally nothing happened.
I didn’t even get a message on Twitter.
But you’ve been probably silently disconnected from X, put in a fake X clone, and you don’t even notice it
Well no police showed up at my door for it, and my family is still alive.
In China if you did that police would show up at your door to intimidate you, if you did it again you and your family would dissappear
This is the fundamental difference that fascist sympathizers are trying to skirt around
if you did it again you and your family would dissappear
Lol, westerners are the most propagandised people on earth.
Right, we should probably ask some Chinese citizens Is there any one of them here?
In China if you did that police would show up at your door to intimidate you, if you did it again you and your family would dissappear
Any proof of this? Because I got recent proof of this sort of stuff happening in America.
If you wanted to find this info you easily can.
You’re an adult and should be capable of doing your own research.
China has a very long history of silencing dissenters, to this day they refuse to aknowledge the Tiananmen Square Massacre ever happened despite there being recordings.
Yet.
This isn’t an argument to accept China’s dictatorship like the troll farm accounts in this thread are pushing.
I’ve never said that.
If you didn’t mean it then you’re just being a useful tool.
Everyone else is saying it because that’s the CCP narrative.
Lol, no, you just don’t know what the insults, slurs, and rude words mean.
the Chinese offer: less morality, more market
yeah okay sure
the USA offer: less morality, less market
Europe needs a different partner
Why should Europe leave the influence of the US just to bow to another hegemon? Why shouldn’t we do our own thing?
Because you can’t get past your minor differences and unite.
A truly united EU would dominate the world, but y’all want to maintain individual sovereignty over foreign affairs.
The problem here is: the EU currently works quite well overall for its citizens, precisely because there isn’t really one big player. It is considerably more difficult to commit crimes and atrocities on the scale of the US, Russia and China when you’re small, weak, and all your close allies are watching you. I don’t have any doubts that a united EU, a federation perhaps, like it was originally intended, would be the greatest power the world has ever seen. But it would come at a great cost to all of its citizens. In anywhere between 50-250 years it would most likely develop into an empire similar to the ones we have right now. Unless we could figure out some sort of new structure to combat these challenges, which in itself is a major undertaking.
The EU just got overthrown after dominating the world and making the world infinitely worse.
Europeans can never be global leaders ever again after performing the worst genocides in history and performing the most slavery in history, both on scales unimaginable in the modern world.
The EU was founded in 1993 and has never committed a genocide, as far as I know.
Pretending the genocides the member countries committed (many stretching well past the 1990s,) didn’t set up the EUs wealth and global position is at best misinformation and at worst fascist propaganda. Did you think you were rich because you were really ubermensch?
Because all other countries of course are kisses and hugs correct? For context the peaceful Japan, as soon as it got military supremacy embraced in genocidal campaigns twice. The Arab had one of the longest, largest slavery network in history, China has probably the record for most deaths overall. And the list goes on.
The fact that the strong oppress the weak is human nature. On the opposite I would actually argue that the true change in government came from western civilization: the only one to start and success in abolishing slavery for example. The only one to invent and promote democracy.
Just straight nazi talking points now, Christ you ‘people’ are shameless.
Well I mean, you’ll be hard pressed to find any empire in history who didn’t dab in a little bit of genocide here and there, it’s not like european countries have a monopoly here.
Name me a civilization that didn’t commit genocide, and you’ll have found a civilization that didn’t have the chance to do it…
The difference is those empires are dead, their wealth and power long distributed. Europe kept their wealth, pretended just saying sorry was an option, and still has colonies across the world.
Is that a challenge? 🤨
Let me rephrase, the world will never allow Europeans to be global leaders ever again now that they have the weapons and resources to prevent colonization and domination.
After the last 800 years Europe should be happy it didn’t become a crater the second nukes left the hands of white colonialists. It needs to live as a third world country for a few centuries minimum as recompense while the rest of humanity moves forward.
Well well well. Won’t you look at who would have done exactly the same thing as the european empires did, if they had the chance?
You’re not mad that it happened at all, you’re mad that it happened to you. Hypocrite.
If you truly believe that nazi shit, you’ve only proven me correct. You people should never have global power, nor should you have a say outside your own country. For anything.
Do you realize how you’re quite literally advocating for genocide, and you see absolutely nothing wrong with that?
How are you any different from Europeans? Because you’ve been victim of oppression doesn’t make you any less likely to oppress others when given the chance, as you’re clearly demonstrating.
You seem like you aren’t a super nice person.
I’m nice to people other than fascists and their enablers.
White colonizers that still believe they need to be leaders of the more savage barbarian world (see the other replies to me for examples) are fascists. Or too stupid to ever resist fascism.
Cool
With ideias like that you sure ain’t that different from those white colonialist.
…I don’t think you understand why people are upset with the actions of colonizers.
All those people are dead. Not only the part of history you know about, but also all of the other history you don’t have a clue about.
Everyone has perished.
Now we just look at the current world and what the state of it is.
If you’re going to be xenophobic about Europe, be my guest, but you’re just going to be bitter and accomplish nothing with it.
The EU has an income inequality gini of 0,29. We are the best in the whole world in solidarity. That’s just a fact.
USA has it at 0,42. China has it at 0,36.
China has barely any refugees, they think we are weak to have accepted refugees.
USA gives too much power to their president. They’ll learn from this.
Indonesia’s president is trying to put military into the government policy positions.
Myanmar is going batshit crazy.
Syria is fucked up.
Libya is fucked up.
Egypt has no women rights.
Israel is going full nazi
Russia is going full imperialist
Brazil has homicide rates like Ukraine
Etc etc
That’s great, buddy
China is predictable.
US used to be, but now it seems they can be taken over by the whims of a single deranged man
*with for some reason the entire KGB backing him
Until it attacks
I mean, shall we look at all countries’ track record of starting direct or proxy wars in the last 70 years or so to determine who’s more likely to attack?
Where was the CCP during the Korean War? Vietnam war? Who violently annexed Tibet? Who is constantly threatening Taiwan, building phony islands to claim Philippine, Vietnamese, and Malaysian territory?
Now they’re capturing Chinese soldiers in Ukraine, using Russia as a proxy against the west.
Not exactly doves.
my comment an exactly response to that too. some people are just opposed to authoritarian monopols uknow. Better to seek the option without these if u can
The supply of leading world economies who are friendly and democratic is now * does some quick math * zero.
Because despite having a so-called union Europe is about as united as a relatively disciplined herd of cats and has acute far right-osis. There are pretty big obstacles standing in the face of a Europe that can compete with America and China and not having enough weapons is only one of them.
If this is the bar, Europe wouldn’t even trade with itself. Our biggest trade partner is calling us Pathetic while threatening to invade us and helping the genocide of an entire group of people.
We’re royally fucked, we either downgrade our lifestyle (which would be good for the environment) or we have to keep making deals with the devil. China just happens to be the devil we know, vs the 3 faced US.
The world is much bigger than just China or the United States. Perhaps Brazil and South America in general are the best candidates for better partners. Africa too, if it develops.
The countries of the European Union need to integrate more and form new alliances outside the two giants.
Just imagine: in a Europe with a single fiscal policy and a shared debt, where the euro is the dominant global currency, you could invest in Portugal or Finland in the same simple way. We would design in Europe, produce in North Africa (these countries would stabilize, develop and there would be no illegal immigrants sailing dangerously through here; later, when they develop sufficiently economically and culturally, we could even open the doors to free movement; Mare Nostrum!) and sell in South America and elsewhere. We should be the ones dictating to China and the United States the conditions for better economic cooperation, not the other way around. We should be the Global Power!
You just listed three Chinese neocolonies. China has already beaten Europe to the punch on investing in global trade partners by a few decades, and they were already smart enough to focus on South America and Africa.
Ultimately that’s your answer as to why Europe won’t be able to have a closed economy on their own terms; because they’re 10 years too late.
those are the colonies. europe has already been extracting resources for cheap here for a while.
Exhibit A The problem is that China and the US have about half of the world’s wealth. The EU (plus uk and other EEA) control another quarter. So as annoying as it is, the EU can either negotiate with one country (USA/China) or 160+ (the rest of the world) to achieve the same financial gain. Of course economics are not everything, but when you understand the picture above, you can start seeing the problem.
Sounds like what NAFTA did until some Cheetos gummed up the works.
Where can I vote for you for president of the world?
There’s still a lot of beef with Europe in both Latin America and Africa. Even if you ignore colonialism, Europe’s cold war era track record in those areas is… Not good to say the least.
What’s the guarantee that Europe will actually bring peace and stability and not just install far-right dictators when it’s convenient for them?
What guarantee did the Finns have that the Swedes won’t just conquer them again? The Baltics that they won’t just, again, be ground up between the millstones of larger powers?
Europe is stock-full of colonised people. Don’t expect French or German or Portuguese or Spanish ambassadors, expect Latvians.
Unfortunately, there are no guarantees in this world. We do not even have the guarantee here in the EU that we will preserve our democratic systems, that we will not succumb to the far-right, to the neo-Nazis. In Germany alone, in recent polls, the AfD has grown and is now ahead in voting intentions, and the new Coalition government has not even taken office yet. Even seeing all the nonsense and chaos that the Trump administration has sown in America in just a few months, this has not discouraged German voters from a party of the same political line supported and financed by the same group of people. We cannot guarantee that we will not install far-right governments in our potential new allies, we cannot guarantee that they will not be destabilised, exploited or even worse. We cannot even guarantee that we will not do the same to ourselves.
Preventing this is an eternal battle that requires a certain leap of faith from everyone. This idea, for our own good, must become a fundamental part of our culture! We must unite the Democratic Forces of our countries and theirs in an eternal struggle against tyranny. We just cannot fall into the error of thinking that there are guarantees, this is a false sense of security that allows these far-right movements to grow. You may have even won great battles, but the war always continues. We can at least try to support their development and foster prosperity in good faith, not let them fall behind. Struggle, struggle, struggle ad aeternum!
I mean, if Europe cannot guarantee the peace and stability of their allies or themselves, why should other countries trust them over China for example?
China is already an autocracy, which always brings greater stability (the regime cannot drastically change with the result of the next elections), but it also increases the chances of abuse of power. For some it makes little difference, for others it doesn’t. For the undecided, the one who offers more in return will win.
Europe needs to create new industries and develop existing ones, while distancing itself from the world’s major powers. But we won’t be able to manufacture here at affordable prices, so we could look for alternatives like the countries of North Africa, for example. I think China simply won’t be as interested in developing a relationship in this way, since they already produce a lot of goods by themselves. In short, we need to be as generous as possible with our new allies.
I like this. I’ll give it deeper thought.
The US can do a 180 in 4 years. China: not so much
you mean, China is more predictable?
More like less repairable
what do you mean? Europe cant “repair” the US
By itself, no
Tarifs and trade wars are bad and all that, however the way Europe is cozying up to BRICS states is worrying. There‘s still an all out military war going on in Ukraine in part because Europe has become too comfortable relying on dictators. We‘ve gone back and forth with Chinese charm offensives and threats too many times to be naive about this.
Remember what our reliance on Russia is costing us. Contemplate what our even stronger reliance on China will cost us because one day we‘ll have to pay that piper too.
I think the EU has largely abandoned the high road with the moralizing finger and just focuses on navigating this world without imploding or tearing itself apart. The moral high ground hardly changed the world for the better so better to just focus on what’s required for your own stability and prosperity.
This is not about the moral high ground at all. Dictatorships are tearing the EU apart much harder than the EU itself ever could without their “help”. It’s a bad deal to rely on any of them too much.
Well, EU is accepting of Israeli perpetrated genocide, so I don’t see them not having a problem with Chinese ones
Victor Gao says that Europe is too small to be an adversary.
Uh… Gestures at America and also all of post-Medieval European history?
I am sure that Europe was “too small to be an adversary” during the Boxer Rebellion too wink
Woke Tariff Trump or Cheap goods Xi … hmm
Sounds like how toxic relationships start.
Exactly like with the US
The US sends its citizens that politically dissent to organ farms?
Nah the US either jails them or straight up murders them. They send money to Israel to do the organ harvesting.
Lmao cope
Or with EU and Russian gas before they invaded Ukraine.
