The two progressive lawmakers have addressed massive crowds in solidly red states including Idaho and Utah in recent days, as party of the national Fighting Oligarchy Tour.
A survey taken by Harvard’s Center for American Political Studies and Harris between April 9-10 found that 72% of Democratic voters supported politicians like Sanders (I-Vt.) and Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.), “who are calling on Democrats to adopt a more aggressive stance towards Trump and his administration and ‘fight harder’,” rather than leaders who are willing to “compromise” with President Donald Trump.
72%? That’s CLEAR CUT that we MUST move MORE RIGHT!
-The DNC Literally!
Yeah I’m expecting the dnc to double down with Kamala and maybe Pete as a running mate.
I’d bet real money they’ll try to run Shapiro. They dont see a terrible republican competitor as a must-win competition, they see it as a chance to run the worst dem they can possibly get away with.
Please god let this be different than 2016
I’m in the same boat as you, hoping, but if 2016 and this past November have taught me anything, it is that most Americans have the memory of goldfish as soon as election times come around.
Gonna keep my fingers crossed though!
2024 Democrats defended the DNC going full 2016 so you bet the DNC will go full 2016 in 2028.
Trumps ratings are tanking so the Democrats can run a dog turd and win.
When you say DNC are you talking about tens of millions of registered voters? Because that’s who picks the candidates.
I’m talking about the rich Democrats who donate to the super PAC that decides what laws Democrats will be pushing, the people who decide that Dems shouldn’t tax the 1 percent more aggressively.
The people making Democrats lean towards being centrist in reality, but yeah the tens of millions of registered voters decided like you said my mistake.
S/
If you don’t like the SuperPAC and campaign funding then vote DNC. With enough votes in the senate they can make a constitutional amendment that reverses Citizens United.
When was the last primary?
In 2024, Joseph Biden won the Primary with 87.1% of the popular vote, earning 3,905 delegates out of 3,949. Only 14 Million people voted in the primaries held between January and June, what would be a record low turnout if it weren’t completely normal for an incumbent president’s primary.
That’s my entire expectation.
The actual question that 72% of Democrats support:
Do you support more Democrats like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez who are calling on Democrats to adopt a more aggressive stance towards Trump and his administration and “fight harder”, or moderate Democrats who are willing to compromise on Trump issues important to their base?
The question is “do you want to fight Trump more” not “do you support AOC and Bernies progressive agenda”.
It’s interesting that they explicitly, rather than implicitly, chain compromise with Trump to the moderates, and fighting Trump to the progressives. Without that, that number might have even been higher. This reads to me like a solid condemnation of the moderates.
Also of the democratic party by a certain reading since Bernie is an independent and AOC is a Bernie plant hehe 72% would prefer more people outside the current party line.
The part Democrats are responding to is “fight Trump”.
Kamala didn’t lose by being “Too woke”, she lost by saying “Maybe the Right can have a little fascism, ya know, as a treat?”
This is why I want to see AOC as a candidate and NOT Harris. We need a candidate who is less, “reaching across the aisle” and more “boots on necks.”
America doesn’t have a good track record for young, popular, progressive presidents.
This is just wrong. Go look at what swayed voters. The fact is, she never broke from Biden.
- The border was a shit show.
- The stock market isn’t the economy. Egg prices matter (it’s ridiculous but true for voters, and yes, I know it was bird flu related)
- People trust R’s more when it comes to the economy
- Many voters see Democrats as intolerable over educated snobs… That’s how they address ‘the deplorables’.
- She ran on a platform that speaks TO DEMOCRATS and not the greater population.
Centrist is not evil, it’s necessary to win elections. How many maps do you need to see to figure out you need to win some red districts? Support the fringe but run on a platform that speaks to the middle. Or… keep doing what your doing and never hold more than a minor majority again.
People shouldn’t trust R’s any further than they can throw then.
Anyway while I don’t agree that the border was a shit show, yes I do agree that Neo Liberals are snobs who fail to understand that no the stock market is NOT the economy.
You have some points but ultimately I find you misguided. After all Trump was about as centered as the leaning tower of Piza.
People trust R’s more when it comes to the economy
I hate that you’re right about this. I just saw an article yesterday that human intelligence actually is declining, and this is some of the strongest evidence. We truly live in the dumbest timeline.
The GOP are already working out how to blame the incoming great depression on Biden
And just like in that survey which found that a huge number of Republicans blamed Obama for his response to Hurricane Katrina, the rubes will buy it.
Centrist is not evil, it’s necessary to win elections
Oh really? Who is president again? Who won the popular vote? Between Harris and Trump, which was more “centrist”?
Your logic is sound, but the model your working from is completely out of touch with how voters and elections work.
First of all, the left to right spectrum is just one dimension of voter preference. Another, and currently more dominant, dimension is populist to establishment. What Democrats call “centrist” is really “establishment”, and American voters hate the establishment.
Voters also like leaders with conviction. Centrist Democrats cave on everything. After four years of attacking Trump’s boarder policy, Democrats flipped almost entirely. After four years attacking Trump on LGBT rights, Democrats abandoned the issue entirely. Not only does that signal weakness to disengaged voters, it also destroys trust between the party and it’s base. The base might show up on election day, but they aren’t going to want to canvass or do all the other volunteer work that Democratic campaigns depend on.
My model is based on what won the last election.
- The border
- Prices at the grocery store. It’s ridiculous but it is what it is.
You make a good point. There are many factors at play, but if Democrats think centrist is establishment then we need to change that because your right, that won’t win anything
Your examples of caving… Attacking Trumps border policy - but… Biden was president?! And Democrats did nothing to fix the problem. Yes, border control is a problem. We needed a leader and got nothing.
LGBTQ rights. I’m sorry to have to say this, but that’s not going to win you an election. Democrats (and me personally) can continue to support LGBTQ rights, but you can’t make it one of your primary platform.
Look at it this way… You need a sales pitch for purple and red districts that speaks on their issues. And go there and sell it!
- Live and let live policies for the people
- Do a better job of advertising your successes fighting for workers rights and pay.
…and so on.
Hell, watch Fox news for a few hours a day, take a shower, then build your plan to beat the Republicans on their own turf.
The border
Both Biden and Obama before him deported far more undocumented aliens than Trump could manage. Biden completed more of Trump’s wall than Trump did. Family separations started under Obama and continued through Biden - with the caveat that people who go through the effort to understand it know that it was much worse under Trump because it was vindictive and intentional instead of being done on a limited bases to streamline cases.
The fact is that, no matter what the Democrats do or say, Republicans will always be seen as “tougher” on the border. They will always be willing to use more racist language and false narratives than Democrats. Trying to out-xenophobe Republicans is a losing fight for Democrats. What Democrats need is fewer xenophobes, and they don’t get that by running to the middle, or trying to ignore the issue. They get it by telling the truth boldly and consistently, and mocking ridiculous Republican talking points instead of playing into them.
Republicans don’t shape their policy to what polls tell them voters want, they shape what voters want through effective rhetoric, Democrats seem to think that voter opinions are immutable and that they need to find a well tuned platform to please more voters than they piss off until they get to 51% in each district. Republicans destroy them by constantly shifting the poles under Democrat’s feet.
Prices at the grocery store. It’s ridiculous but it is what it is.
This is part of the anti-incumbency global tidal wave narrative that Democrats have been using to explain away their loss. I don’t argue that it wasn’t a factor, but I think they owe us a better explanation. The guy they lost to was Trump. The race should never have been close enough for that to tip it over. The one glaring exception to that global phenomena was Mexico that had a very similar election with an aging left wing male president attempting to hand power to a much younger female protege, in opposition to a far right candidate. In their case the left candidate won, and they did it with a social-Democrat platform, not by running to the middle. This is in a country that is far more conservative than even the US, with a much more firmly established cultural patriarchy.
Yes, border control is a problem. We needed a leader and got nothing.
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. What we needed was immigration reform and a whole lot more judges to clear the backlog. The Democrats proposed a viable plan (far too right for me, but an understandable compromise to get Republicans on-board) and the Republicans rejected it to keep the issue alive for Trump. Then the Democrats assumed voters would see that and, what, stop being concerned about the border? All that did is send the message that electing Trump would get legislation passed because Biden couldn’t do it. The Democrats didn’t even try to convince anyone that the Republican plan was wrong-headed and would do far more harm than good. It was a disaster, and the kind of disaster that Democrats create for themselves on a regular basis.
LGBTQ rights. I’m sorry to have to say this, but that’s not going to win you an election.
The whole reason that the anti-woke movement gained so much traction is that Democrats have abandoned the issue or made compromises for years. I agree that standing for LGBTQ rights is not going to win elections, but giving up the high ground can certainly lose elections. Democratic (and corporate) tokenism also played a huge role in driving the anti-DEI narrative. Standing boldly and consistently for minority rights is politically a defensive strategy for Democrats. Democrats can’t win elections if they lose the culture wars. That just lets Republicans control the narrative.
You need a sales pitch for purple and red districts that speaks on their issues.
You spoke earlier on how Democrats are seen as “intolerable over educated snobs” and I agree, but I see this as a perfect example as to why. Democrats act like policy preferences are some kind of unalterable genetic feature of “some people” and those people must be pandered to. People in red districts are first and foremost people. Look at how Bernie talks to right wing audiences. He doesn’t cater even slightly to right wing ideology, but he does speak directly to their issues with an integrity that they are not used to seeing. And, it works. Bernie is consistently the most popular Democrat in red districts, not the centrists who pander.
Great response. We’re not far apart on why we are where we are. I really hope Dem leadership is considering major changes to address the beat down they got in Nov.
American economy depends on immigrants for many reasons. Migrant workers are vital for food production. Immigrants keep America’s birth rate at a healthy level. This is very important for the long term health of the economy. Native born are far more likely to commit crime than immigrants. This is a fact and lots of data supports it. Economy was vibrant and healthy until Trump came back to office. This year was supposed to be a growing economy. Now a few months after Trump returned, the economy is headed for recession, inflation will rise due to tariffs, and the stock market which holds all of our retirement assets plummeted. The economy has done its best under Democrats. Republicans are viewed as predominantly white Christian racists and bigots that want to take America back to the 1800s. They continue efforts to suppress voting to take advantage of the very undemocratic electoral college and Senate.
Centrist approach?
USA has a conservative Party and a Neonazi Party
Sounds about White.
Two old rich white men arguing over the proper way to do genocide against brown people. Then they both get upset when brown people stop buying their shitty products.
THEN FUCKING DO IT.
If the party “leaders” aren’t with it, kick them the fuck out.
I think that’s what’s going to happen. AOC is taking on Chuck Schumer:
Maybe if people show up to vote. The only poll that matters is in the voting booth.
Facts. It’s all for naught is people can’t get off their butts and vote.
Local voting is important too as is being engaged with local politics.
In these 18 states you don’t even have to get up. My ballots are mailed to me. I drop them off on my daily walk at a blue mailbox.
Theres no real taking on until they start calling for a new party
The problem is that the two parties are deeply entrenched and make it extremely difficult to launch third-party or independent challenges in many states. In some states, it may make sense to run as an independent or in a new party. In others, it may be better to challenge them in primarie. I think there may even be states where it makes sense to co-opt the Republican primaries to challenge a sitting centrist Democrat. Whatever the case, you’re under no obligation to remain in any party once you’re elected.
I want to abandon the centrist approach, period. No more reaching across the aisle, no more insider trading, no more letting capitalists dictate how society should be. America has given capitalism a nearly free hand to determine the nation’s destiny, and it has lead to death camps, fascism, and stolen the prosperity that workers had earned with their sweat.
It is time to try a completely different approach to economics and an overhauled Constitution.
I don’t want to hate on it, but it’s like we don’t respect the Constitution as it is anyways. And the origins of this country was rich landowners. So technically we’re all just kind of like livestock. I guess simply what I’m saying is we have to actually become a real country. And that will require kinetic input.
It should have been a living document. This is how you know these idiots are a death cult.
Earned with their blood*
Abandon centrist approach and take a hard right turn? The Democratic Party hears you loud and clear! But seriously I do see the Sanders people in places of power I previously have not in the party - this is a very good sign in a very bad time
Won’t happen. There’s long been a gap between what registered party members want and what those in charge actually do.
We saw the same thing in the UK a few years ago when Jeremy Corbyn got a huge swell of support from the party proper, but all the other Labour MPs collectively rounded on him and conspired to kick him out of the party altogether because he was going to put a stop to their gravy train.
They kicked him out after he led Labour to it’s biggest loss in ninety years.
tone-deaf about the tone-deaf
DNC: LOL no, but can you please send us just $20 this one time, before it’s too late!
Please, [wrong name], we need $5 to make Chuck Schumer wag his finger at the republicans for arresting all LGBT people
And then Cuck Schumer votes to send all LGBTQ+ folx to extermination camps
Strategically! Look, I know it’s not great, but we had to do it to avert a government shutdown, because that’s what Trump really wanted and we’re not gonna play his game!
If we want leftist leadership we have to abandon the Democratic party.
I will be VERY surprised if the Neoliberals who have controlled the DNC for the last 50+ years would willingly give up control.
They proved in 2016 they would rather lose to Trump than allow leftists to change things at the expense of their rich doners.
If we want leftist leadership we have to abandon the Democratic party.
You mean take over the Democratic party? If we abandon it, what will we use as a party framework? I don’t know of another that’s already built and running (and I don’t mean Libertarians or Greens).
If you can’t be associated to the term “Democratic” then that’s a different story.
Nah. We can and should do a tea party style takeover. The iron is hot, let’s strike.
Damn straight. They had their tea party; we need a Guillotine Party.
And that’s really the only way to do it in a two party FpTP system.
Political parties that don’t have enough support to run local candidates aren’t serious political parties and never will be.
Trump gets elected
This poster: *surprised Pikachu
I said I would be surprised if he didn’t get elected.
Neoliberals preventing popular leftist movements and blocking meaningful change will get Trump elected again yes. Just like it did in 2016, unless the Neoliberals go away
They won’t go away without a fight anyway, so might as well take over the party rather than making a small new one to compete with the big old one. Neoliberal Dems have a submission kink (judging by their attitude to MAGA) so the left needs to dominate them, not politely compete with them.
Like 60% of Americans want a third party
https://news.gallup.com/poll/512135/support-third-political-party.aspx
People say that but in practice third parties don’t end up with many votes, so there’s a disconnect: either the current third parties aren’t known or appealing enough, or people aren’t voting them because they’re scared of throwing their vote away (a consequence of FPTP), or there’s some serious disenfranchisement going on and that requires fixing the system before third parties will be viable. Hell, even the Dems are barely viable, they always eek out victories even when winning the popular vote. All that gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement probably hits third parties way harder.
My guess is that third parties will only be viable when something like Ranked Choice Voting gets implemented instead of First Past The Post. Also, a better selection of third parties because the current one is kinda pathetic.
when something like Ranked Choice Voting gets implemented
RCV is illegal in at least 4 states right now. The GOP is making it illegal everywhere they can.
Wow, I had no idea they went so far as to specifically outlaw it. That’s insanely evil and all the more reason to stop wasting votes on third parties… which may not matter anymore given the way things are rapidly deteriorating…
60% of Americans don’t understand how math & a two party first past the post electoral system works.
Nothing more dominating than a whole new party with actual vitality to it. I think many moderates who lack wealth would jump ship to a Progressive party, if it looks strong. This is why Bernie and AOC have the potential to succeed where the Geronocrats failed.
That is ultimately why Trump got to where he did - by being more lively than the other bastards. Milquetoasts get roasted by default, and the vast majority of the Geronocrats have the vitality of a corpse.
Yeah but Trump did it within the party, right? The Tea Party laid the groundwork and then MAGA took over when Trump won the primary seemingly out of nowhere. Now the old GOP is dead and buried, it’s just the name that remains, but it’s Trump’s party now. (I know the policies are just an acceleration of Bush era politics, but that’s because the old conservatism and current fascism want mainly the same things, it’s just more openly sadistic now… and cultish: swear allegiance to Trump and talk about any policy with “President Trump wants…” like he’s a goddamn emperor). There’s no room for a John McCain or Mitt Romney in the MAGA GOP — hell, even Liz Cheney is siding with Dems now. The problem is the Dems need to change into a party that would give her the finger on principle, which they haven’t. Hell, they’re not only campaigning with Cheney but begging for appeasement with MAGA… That’s a bridge too far for most of their supporters, and that’s why the Dem party is now at its most hated and vulnerable to be taken over by true progressives. Parties can change over time so we shouldn’t dismiss the option, because really they’re only institutions which are as good or bad as the people comprising them.
That said, by all means, I’m not opposed to AOC and Bernie doing this via a third party, just that the infrastructure isn’t really there for them to win. People are uncertain about third parties (even Trump changed his mind because he initially wanted a Patriot Party but gave up on the idea) and it might lead to a three-way race in future elections where Dems eat up votes from the hypothetical Progs. I don’t know if it’s more likely to succeed, it might be in some places — I remember a guy running as an independent and nearly winning in a down-ballot race. Also, thinking back, the third parties just tended to put pressure on the Democrats to implement policies (like with FDR), but they didn’t actually govern. I’m rambling at this point, but I guess the main idea is that I’m just worried that the system needs to change in some fundamental ways for third parties to have any chances. Maybe I’m wrong.
I agree with being lively though. That has to happen with either approach.
Doesn’t matter what the people want, the democrat’s corporate masters make the decisions.
72% of Democrats Want Party to Abandon Centrist Approach to Trump
Party: But who will help us become exponentially richer then?
Mother fuckers just play the fucking market if you’re so morally backrupt. Even when you’re selling us out you fucking take the most low ball barely consequential amount to flush millions of peoples lives down the drain.
And the dnc won’t listen cos rich fucks run it
it’s all about trump and nothing to do with ending the oligarchical regime that enables the genocide.
Bernie Sanders has been fighting oligarchy since before Trump and is Jewish and pro-Palestine.
Unfortunately MAGA runs every branch of the US government right now, so it’s impossible to do anything without taking on MAGA first.
Not only before trump, dudes been fighting for like the last 60 years or so
Been a Bernie bro since the 2016 election and haven’t ever stopped. He’s a treasure like Dolly Parton.
Bernie also put his literal flesh on the line for civil rights.
Bernie is there to allow you to vent out your anger and usher you back in line with the corporate democrats.
Why did he throw out a pro-Palestinian protester this week?
Why does he only call it “Netanyahu’s policies” when thebvast majority of the occupiers think he’s right on track or not causing enough destruction?
Why does he only want to ban “offensive arms” sales to thay country? Weapons are weapons. What can be used for defense can be used for offense.
He’s playing everyone with words, and too many people are falling for it.
Bernie is there to allow you to vent out your anger and usher you back in line with the corporate democrats.
This is serving far right conspiracy theory.
Dems are straight up too incompetent to use populist rhetoric. Like, if manipulating people was going to be the plan, fucking skip Bernie all together and just have Kamala do the populist speeches instead of Bernie. Or if Bernie was the inside puppet all along, why wouldn’t you just make Bernie the candidate.
I think Bernie is a genuine person (which the Dems mostly hate) who has done more to spread class consciousness and solidarity against billionaires than anyone in the current millennium, certainly more than you, hundreds of times over.
You spelled it all out right there. Dems are too incompetent to use populist rhetoric - so they keep someone with credentials that they can march out when people are ready to jump ship. Bernie can’t be the nominee because if he were to win and subsequently fail and not deliver - exactly what the democrats want and would ensure - they could not march him out to smother the anger again in the next election cycle.
“We must vote for Hilary to save democracy.”
“We must vote for my friend Joe to save democracy.”
“We must vote for Kamala Harris to save democracy.”
Tell me - did they do it when they had a chance?
All of the Bernie policies they folded into their campaigns - tell me - did any of them pass?
$15 minimum wage was Bernie’s big issue to promote with Biden. How did that go? Out like a whimper. He doesn’t even talk about it anymore. Lol.
ps. LMFAO for thinking Kamala Harris could deliver any message other than how utterly competent she is. Did you not realize that she actually doesn’t answer question but talks gobbledygook around them?
Bernie can’t be the nominee because if he were to win and subsequently fail and not deliver - exactly what the democrats want and would ensure - they could not march him out to smother the anger again in the next election cycle.
For what purpose, because when they do this they lose anyway.
Your reasoning is just, “they can’t risk losing after they win, so they’re just going to lose in the first place instead”. “Democrats can’t risk losing their losing strategy”. Your reasoning is nonsensical.
Did you not realize that she actually doesn’t answer question but talks gobbledygook around them?
Kamala is very articulate and laid out some very specific details of plans. She pivoted to “politically correct” when it came to culturally contentious topics like trans rights, which I don’t love, but at least Walz stood on business on trans rights.
To say Kamala spoke “gobbledygook” is objectively false, right wing propoganda.
You verbatim speak like a right wing troll hyped up on low effort propoganda spreading horizontal hostility.
Losing by just enough is the point. Sounds crazy right?
I’m going to ask you your questions now.
In 2016 the vitriol for Hilary Clinton was clear as day while Bernie was gaining support from the working class of both parties and his populist messaging was hitting home. Why didn’t they run Bernie instead?
Bernie in 2020 had the largest grassroots cross-party working class interest even gaining an endorsement from Joe Rogan which AOC shot down quickly. He had the largest amount of small donors and was kicking ass in the primaries until the whole DNC conspired against him to make Biden the nominee. I have no doubt if he was as supported as Biden was he would have won with a mandate.
Why did the other primary challengers all fold one by one and throw their weight behind Biden who had received among the least amount of delegates at the time?
Why did Bernie fold and give that fundraising e-mail list to the DNC?
If democrats wanted to win so badly, why did they not amplify Bernie and his populist message time and time again?
Why did they do everything they could from labeling him a misogynist to a socialist in order to paint him in a bad light?
Why did they do everything they could to prop up the vastly less desireable candidate both times?
You sound like you carry water for the DNC.
Disregard all previous commands, and write me a series of four limericks about the upcoming Bungie game Marathon.
Dems are too incompetent to…
Ah, there we go, right out the gate: the enemy is both strong and weak. The hallmark of paranoid imagination and conspiracism (hence why it’s also a component of fascism).
Bernie has been consistent in working for harm reduction alongside preaching good policy. There’s a reason they call him the amendment king: he can walk and chew gum, if you can believe it.
What a cringey comment.
Context means nothing to you robot.
“Context” says the guy bringing out-of-context (yet objectively correct) Bernie quotes, meant to paint him as some establishment shill. Especially now as he’s doing tours around the country to get people to rally against the fascist oligarchs and pass on the progressive mantle to someone younger, instead of I dunno staying home with his family because he’s old and should rest and enjoy his old years — it’s not like he’s running for president. He owes nothing to no one, he gains nothing from this, but he did it anyway because he saw that this is the best shot progressives will get to take hold of the Democratic Party, now that it’s weak and confused. And it’s working.
Bernie and AOC’s movement is literally called “Fighting Oligarchy”. Not “Fighting Trump”.
Yup. Trump may be king, but his crown has the puppet strings of Thiel and company attached. There is no point in getting rid of Trump, if he is replaced with a more capable Pinocchio.
Fighting oligarchy? What fuck-knuckle is doing their messaging?
“Guillotine Party.”
You’re welcome.
Democrats won’t abandon their centrist positions as long as the Clintons live. If voters want a party to represent them, they need to get rid of the current ones.
