The only thing more important than “do nothing wrong” is to loudly correct those who are doing “almost right” and “in the right direction.”
I think it’s a tossup between “loudly correct” and “vilify as a disappointing libshit.”
I had an interaction once where I thought I used double quotes around a word to imply something obvious related to the posted article. A random person got mad at me and claimed I knew nothing about solidarity.
I felt insulted, they didn’t know my life experiences up to that point. I chose to ignore my feelings and pressed them to teach my why I was so wrong. They eventually disappeared from replies because they had nothing behind that image of righteousness. Rare win but I’ll take it.
If someone put themselves in harms way to punch an authoritarian follower in the face in my defence and also uses slurs I could find offensive to myself, that’s not my enemy. That’s someone awesome who could use a little more education. Later. When the current situation isn’t so wild.
Words are just words. That’s not as effective as punching a fascist in face.
Reminded me of an old meme I saw in like 2009.
CW homophobic slur
Also a content warning for a couple slurs, but the point from Patton Oswalt a while back is roughly the same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkKo1_RP_0c
We are really lacking in fascist faces punched these days, no one can have a civil conversation without them screeching and throwing shit
And sometimes those people will even destroy active progress because it doesn’t meet their definition of perfect.
Online leftists will destroy something because it’s not 100% of what they want, disregarding the 50-60% that would be what they want.
I think this “do nothing wrong” tendency has something to do with intragroup power dynamics. I’ve often seen it used as a cudgel to knock down others within a group and stop mild dissent even though everyone is on the same team. Usually the most prolific wielder of the “do nothing wrong” cudgel rises to a position of some authority in the group, after which the group fragments because the person is insufferable but unassailable due to their moral superiority.
So…You are saying that mods are, in actual fact , not based ?
HERESY
I haved discussions with others here where its people are just not happy with baby steps and want full change right away. Problem is we need to make more friends not enemies with each other.
I’ve started to make a habit on the internet to make amends and give grace to people who get upset in the comments as fast as possible. Textual online spaces are seemingly quite prone to disagreement, so it’s a huge help just to mindfully counteract that tendency.
Dude your username is amazing.
I worry people find it distracting, but it definitely captures the imagination
Well easy for you my brave little Hitachi wand! Who can stay angry at you!
It helps if you’re fun.
Ball big. Need lots of hands. Take long time move. Come. Help. Roll big ball with us.
Also, we don’t actually know which way we need to roll it. Some people have strong ideas, other understand the vague direction but there’s lots of invisible obstacles strewn across the landscape, and whenever we hit one there are a hundred different people with a thousand different explanations about what the fuck just happened.
It bothers me that I see genocide trivialize so often, like implying it’s a full step that needs to wait. The problem is that they would rather take the steps that help Israel commit heinous acts then start with small steps that benefit their constituents.
Stopping the sale of weapons to a apartheid state committing genocide and condemning them is now seen as too much? I can’t expect anything good to come from them if that’s the kind of slack we insist on giving.
They had the same foreign policy every administration since Israel became a country did but some people chose now to get upset about it.
The world is a worse place now because Harris didn’t win.
Biden second term would have be heaven compared to this.
It’s almost like if blatant genocide changes the equation. Honestly, Israel should have lost our support a long time ago. It’s easy to see how deep corruption and most likely black mail had a big role to play.
Yes, the world would be a better place with Harris at the helm. It’s a shame she tried her hardest to lose. FYI, I voted for her but I’m also mature enough to realize that she basically gave all her voters the finger and that’s why she lost.
Keep blaming the evil voters who couldn’t stomach genocide and we will get the exact same play next election. You are enabling, not helping. It’s their job to get votes and care about our opinion ffs.
Single issue voters always make the world a worse place.
I find it crazier that the dems decided to make genocide a voting issue in the first place. Weaponized incompetence, I swear. They could have told Israel to pound sand, but they chose a foreign state over us. They screwed you too man, have a spine.
Nah, people who didn’t vote for Harris screwed the world.
Glad to hear you’re not one of them.
Yes, but it’s not the ONLY thing going on. Would you let the rest of the world burn to stop genocide in the middle east? I’m guessing not.
So if there is a massive problem that we can’t directly take action to fix, you try to attack the source of the problem or other adjacent problems.
This idea that the Dems need to be fully against it or I’ll never vote for them is naive. If the alternative is WW3 with 10x the deaths or continued genocide I don’t like either but I’m not going to sit on the sidelines while WW3 starts and complain about the dems stance as the reason I didn’t try to prevent it. Maintaining a moral high ground at the expense of people isn’t ok. Yes they could have done a million things better or different, but they didn’t. We had a choice to make with the options we had. Some people rejected reality and ushered in this shit storm so they could keep their concussion clean, it’s selfish. They’d rather have peace of mind than actually prevent suffering, because they had a chance to and didn’t.
There are other people, other children suffering because of Trump that would not have been if Harris won. That’s just fact. Preventing him from getting in office or not, the events in the middle east remain the same, but those other lives impacted could have been prevented. We need to open up our world view and have it grounded in reality.
So if there is a massive problem that we can’t directly take action to fix, you try to attack the source of the problem or other adjacent problems.
I think that is the crux of the issue. I don’t see condemning Israel and stopping the sale of weapons as some massive wall. The dems failed to take action and I’m taking action right now by holding them accountable for it.
The fact is they didn’t even try to solve the issue. Israel themselves admitted to it. I consider it their fault Trump won and even more people have to suffer. I see the constant scapegoating post-election as serving nothing except enabling them.
They need to be told their platform, built on foreign genocide and apathy, is literally atrocious. We need to demand change, not give them an easy way out.
Very good take.
I complained to a partner once about something they’d done that seemed vaguely unethical (by my understanding of their ethics). After they apologised, I was still upset, and they said “maybe I’m a little bit shit, just like everyone else.”
That really stuck with me. People (including myself) are often OK with accepting imperfections in other people in some spaces, but not in others. It’s pretty weird… Life is messy, even the bits that seems straightforward. And no one has a perfect understanding of any situation…
I spent a bunch of time in such spaces before the election and was shocked how much time and energy was squandered with virtue signaling and purity testing. There was literally no room for anything else in some of them.
obviously a trap set by bougie liberals to try and get me to vote for a Democrat.
but i’m too smart for them
This one is fun because it could be both about tankies and actual leftists depending on what you believe in.
Oh it’s definitely leftists in general
Nah.
Because you’re the one in the meme you just don’t realize it
Because I don’t call tankies leftist?
I believe it’s actually the opposite. So many extremists or “I don’t agree with you therefore you’re a troll” bullshit.
You get censored and banned for pretty much anything. Lemmy is no exception and pretty obviously like that.
You get censored and banned for pretty much anything. Lemmy is no exception and pretty obviously like that.
Seeing as I have not been banned for anything I have to disagree.
It depends on the instance and mods I think. I got a temp ban from an instance just citing “bad faith” for asking if there was a source article and getting flamed for “standing in the way of the movement”. I accept that the Libre/FOSS space trends towards more niche user bases, and Lemmy is infinitely better than any other alternatives, but sometimes it feels a bit to close to Emo Phillips “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912”.
It depends on the instance and mods I think
Of course it does. Anyone can start their own instance, if there is an issue it is a problem with that instance, not Lemmy as a whole.
The Internet is not obsessed with speed running just because there exists websites on it obsessed with speed running.
Very true, and everyone should keep that in mind. It’s also true that there is an outsized visibility and impact that instances like ML and hexbear have on the zeitgeist/perception of the platform. It doesn’t help that the creators are ML.
The Internet is not obsessed with speed running just because there exists websites on it obsessed with speed running.
The Internet also sends greeting cards and is used for business/stock market trading, but everyone knows that the Internet is FOR porn.
Depends on the things you say, where…
If you’re generally leftist, you should mostly be fine.
Otherwise you get banned for trolling (because ofc they’re right so you’re trolling) or transphobia, because if you don’t agree with everything a trans person says, you’re transphobic. Also, the world belongs to them.
Talk about lesser known subjects by the public or make a mistake yourself? Thats it, you’re banned for misinformation and trolling. Or being a nazi or racist or whatever. The words don’t have a meaning anymore
Also the random ban reasons like “Rule 3” which refers to the most open and subjective rules like “Be civil” or “Dont be a dick” or similar
Sounds like a lot of generalizing. Probably deserved your ban to be honest.
Believe whatever you want. I’m saying that based on my experience.
Yeah, and you made a pretty blanket statement about all trans people, or ig all trans people on Lemmy, based on your experience with like, a handful of people?
If you want an example, I said trans athletes being in man or women categories is a debate and shouldn’t be allowed by default because of inequalities between the individuals, and true equality can never be reached.
I believe the use of “biological men” trigged them when I said that transgender women were that… when I was talking about scientific stuff to make my point.
Super transphobic, watch out! ☢️ -_-
man or women categories is a debate and shouldn’t be allowed by default because of inequalities between the individuals, and true equality can never be reached.
Studies have found the only Olympic events in which trans women might have an advantage over cis women is mid range sprints. There has been no advantage shown in the short or long sprint events nor any other categories.
If you want to talk about equality in sports the biggest inequality that affects outcomes is money. Athletes with more money poured into them for training and equipment have a significant advantage over other athletes.
Why would I care about what you said to invite derision? The problem, currently, is your attempted usage of derision to discredit an entire group of marginalized people based on your EXTREMELY LIMITED and STATISTICALLY IRRELEVANT experiences.
Boohoo the trans people in the trans community disagreed with me about trans issues and the trans people called me transphobic because I have controversial opinions that I chose to share.
Get over it. Honestly, get over yourself. Grow up.
Depends on the things you say
So not “pretty much anything” then.
I thought it was obvious that it was an exaggeration. If you go out of the normal way, according to the mods, well you’re fucked
Well we’re disagreeing right now, so logically only one of us can be “the normal way” yet neither of us are banned…
I financially frauded once. I’ve never been penalized for it. That must mean the government is fine with it.
I insulted someone in a game and never got penalized for it, so it must mean the moderators in that game are okay with it.
It’s the same kind of logic, no?
That’s the kind of things that happens. Else I guess I hallucinated a couple times in a row, or I mod removed my posts and banned my account by myself. Must be what happened.
Either everything is moderated and censored, or nothing. No in between can exist.
Seriously, come on, that’s not how it works and you know it as much as me.
And fortunately there are still mods that let you speak, people that don’t report you… but what I describe will end up happening if you have these kind of behaviors or point of view.
Either everything is moderated and censored, or nothing. No in between can exist.
That is the argument you were presenting, yes. I’m glad we agree that that is absurd.
but what I describe will end up happening
Nevermind, here you are making the statement you just argued against.
All I did was misgender Kris by calling them a “xir”.
They were arguing over gender, and I was feeling like being contrarian…
I guess this is supposed to be ironic?
Oh and also the double standards
You can hope for Musk and Trump or any rich fuck to die, but do this with someone else and you’re banned
I would even go as far as to argue Lemmy is a prime example of this.
And that why federation is good, but it gets annoying having to switch instances or communities
I’ve said some vile, fucked up shit while I’m having a bipolar depressive episode, but I have yet to get modded for a single thing.
You can basically say whatever the fuck you want, like 4chan. But unlike 4chan, Lemmy hasn’t yet devolved into a cesspool of hate and bigotry. Probably only 'cause the average troll is too stupid to figure out how federation works.
Weird then. From experience this tends to dissapear quickly. Maybe it wasn’t so bad or no one saw and reported it
Just like my recent post on r/politics got censored?
I don’t know, I’m not on reddit. And by definition if it’s removed I can’t see it.
Well, I didn’t see it
online leftist
Important things happen offline, online is more or less a distraction.
I don’t know if that’s really true anymore. Or, maybe more accurately, I think we’re in between when that was true in the pre-social media age and when it’ll be true again after the social web breathes its last. There are just too many ways that megacorps, bad actors, and foreign agents can manipulate offline activity with online action.
Some of those things are manipulating small groups into large-scale action (see: Qanon), but misinformation and meme warfare also have a measurable effect on election, direct action, etc. Not to mention that local organization is best done online, and that has a very real effect.
Now, is offline action more important than online action? Absolutely, and if you’re saying that being an “online leftist” (as an identity) is a distraction, I think I agree with you. But online action is more than just a distraction, and to ignore it is probably counterproductive.
Trump is literally a 4chan meme gone too far, homie.
Simpsons did it first
still had to happen offline yes?
Yes, but they are inextricably influencing each other. Both are subsets of reality.
The problem is they keep dissagreeing on details and forget, they’ll never agree on everything.
Gatekeeping, purity testing, virtue signaling, and no self accountability. These are the four reasons why every leftist space outside of the center left is a complete and utter joke. These traits are cultural in left wing spaces, and they are very common. They are so common that they’ll never be going away and they are the root reasons why the left will NEVER accomplish anything substantial during my lifetime.
That’s not only a problem of online leftists spaces. The left has always been pretty busy with discussing what page of the capital is more beautiful written…
An alarming number of leftists are not revolutionaries but dictators without power.
