Re-creation of someone else’s post because the original was removed and I found it funny when I first saw it
“I can’t build a steady userbase”
There is a difference between steady and small.
Actually… The Steam Deck runs on Valve’s custom Arch Linux. To say there is no steady userbase is simply not true.
Touché. I would like to counter that with “Not a desktop though” and end my turn with “wine required to use company software”
Between Microsoft’s open source Vulcan enhancements and Valve’s everything else enhancements both being contributed upstream, “Wine required” doesn’t have quite the same punch it used to.
Pours myself a shot for having to thank Microsoft
Weak punches are still punches
Tell that to your dreams
My dreams don’t hurt :(
that’s also not true because it could be used as a desktop all the same
It is very true. Nobody buys a steamdeck to be a desktop replacement. Nobody does work on a steamdeck. It might theoretically work, but most steamdeck owners game on it and thats it.
I dont think you’re right about that. Browse through the steam deck subreddit and community here and you’ll see plenty of posts of people using the steam deck for work and productivity as well as gaming. I myself use it both as a console and as a laptop more or less. Its a very nice portable Linux desktop
Damn
What a dishonest argument. They’re using a curated overlay for Linux that mostly hides the Linux part from them completely. The fact that there’s a “Desktop Mode” doesn’t change the fact that 99% of Steam Deck users aren’t in Desktop mode.
Edit: If someone bought a smart appliance with a screen whose software was Linux on the backend, we wouldn’t count people who bought that appliance (a refrigerator, for example) as “Linux users”. The Steam Deck is the same way for 95% of its users.
They’re using a curated overlay for Linux
This is commonly known as a “distro”. SteamOS is just particularly good at being user friendly for it’s fairly narrow use-case.
SteamOS is the distro. Big Picture/Steam Deck is an overlay for the Steam application and what the majority of Steam Deck users are using and experiencing. They’re not using it for day to day applications and browsing the internet.
I’d probably call Big Picture the Desktop environment in this case. Yes it’s a simplified linux experience, but it’s not not linux.
The point is that you could swap what OS it is in the background and it wouldn’t make a difference that it’s Linux. The Steam Deck could be running Windows with Big Picture on top of it and no one would be the wiser. It’s misleading to say that Steam Deck users are Linux users if they don’t even use any of the Linux environment.
But that’s true for anything. you could swap out the OS under gnome and most users wouldn’t notice either.
Yeah, you can run old app on Linux, as long as you compile it manually while solving a shitton of dependency problems.
Still better than getting brickwalled by software.
And a Flatpak with an end-of-life FreeDesktop runtime from 2019 or something
2017+3 Mk.III
not just having a backed up schroot of the old OS to run with
schroot -c oldbuntu -u user /path/to/appOr a distrobox
I’m predominantly a Windows user. However I dual boot with Mint as I am trying to get away from Windows. It’s really not easy but I’m trying.
I gotta say though these types of posts make me cringe. I really don’t know why some Linux users put themselves on a pedestal all the time. You make these sorts of smug posts making out that Linux is perfect. I have never installed Linux and had it just work. There is always something that requires searching the web for a fix and firing up the terminal to start changing something in /etc/.
I get it. You’re proud of your technology. But vegans are proud they don’t eat animal products. We don’t need to keep selling it to the rest of the world.
I’ve found it easier to use KDE to switch from windows as it feels like a more complete ecosystem that I’m familiar with. And it is pretty great, until I install one bad graphics driver and then I’m stuck in a terminal only session until I can fix it. At least windows has safe mode.
Meanwhile KDE/Fedora gave me the most issues on both my laptop and desktop.
The UI drops to 1hz refresh rate for some reason.
My mouse cursor theme was causing issues with Firefox. My mouse would just disappear when using Firefox.
Konsole and Dolphin kept opening in a tiny window, where I had to expand it every time to see the text. No amount of saving preferences would fix it.
The logout button hard locked my PC. Only way to fix it was to reboot my PC with the power button.
Steam constantly locked up, even when trying to play games rated GOLD on Protondb.
Davinci resolve refused to launch. Kept giving me errors.
I then gave up. Most of the issues never got fixed, and the ones that I did manage to fix took HOURS of Googling. These are all such basic features/tasks that literally work out of the box on Windows/Mac.
What problems do you have most often? Can you come up with a description of a class of problems you have that would account for most of the time you spend troubleshooting?
Who provided the documentation you used to install a Linux operating system you had trouble with? I don’t recall having serious issues after installing openSUSE or Fedora Linux or even NixOS, and I certainly don’t recall having any issues of above-average importance that weren’t a direct result of my intentional actions (e.g. trying to permanently change what DNS servers would be used).
The last character: I can make you spend an entire day trying to install some software or configuring something specific
Oh yeah, I never had to do this on windows!
Wait! That’s not correct.
Maybe I’m unique in this regard, but I can’t remember having any issues installing things on windows since Windows 7. Trying out Linux in college was fun and interesting, but I definitely spent more time futzing around with it to make it work the way that I want it to work.
I think more people would take the Linux community here seriously if people just acknowledged the flaws with Linux based OSes and focused on the actual benefits of Linux over windows. (Which are getting more and more enticing as Microsoft makes windows more annoying.)
I know what you mean and Linux can be the operating system with less issues as well. E.g. I never had printer issues with my system but have to troubleshoot others’ printers regularly.
If you only use Linux for browsing and light office work you probably never encounter problems. Even if you play games via steam and Proton there probably will never be something.
The same is true for Windows. If you only use it for a small subset of tasks (browsing, light office work or playing recent games) you will rarely encounter problems.
But if you try to do so without a Microsoft account or if you don’t want a bloated start menu, it starts to get tricky.
And don’t get me started on playing old games or getting some programming dependencies running. This can be hell.
I know the flaws of windows (I’ve used it up until last year and still have to use it at work) and I also know the limitations of Linux. They are both not perfect, but Linux is free and Windows becomes more and more shit (as you’ve said). And this is where I don’t understand all the people saying, that windows is easier. It really isn’t anymore. It was a few years ago though.
I imagine that most people think Windows is easier because the majority of people grew up using Windows machines in schools, workplaces, etc. I think it could have to do with the sense of familiarity there.
The other problem I think people have with Linux is that the fact that different distros confuses them. Most average people are afraid of the command line, and really want a GUI for everything. Many of these people’s first exposure to Linux could scare them away depending on the distro they happened to choose, I think.
Most average people are afraid of the command line, and really want a GUI for everything. Many of these people’s first exposure to Linux could scare them away depending on the distro they happened to choose, I think.
Or it’s the fact the community is so toxic?
Every computer, doesn’t matter brand or hardware, never works 100% out of the box on Linux. Doesn’t matter which distro.
You ask online, and people scream at you to run terminal commands or go back to Windows.
You run a terminal command that breaks your system, and people blame you for running random terminal commands…
You go back to Windows, and people say “Linux is so friendly, you don’t even have to touch the terminal anymore if you really don’t want to!”
Rinse and repeat.
😜
A key distinction is how many of those problems are specifically because of Windows. Is a Windows feature creating the problem?
The concept scares me quite a bit actually, having to fight my OS in addition to entire else I’m always trying to figure out.
Yeah I won’t say windows is better, I know Linux is superior. But windows is a mess with a reason, it works everywhere . But It can’t handle heavy operations , it’s bloated af … etc ir sucks for enterprise solutions. But for a personal computer or server simple apps, people don’t want to wait or struggle .
Yeah, Linux has a lot of good uses, it’s just not for everyone nor the average person. There’s no way the people who struggle with computer troubles could use Linux.
I think that’s sometimes forgotten in all the memes. The people who could actually use Linux are a fairly small subset of all Windows users.
99.9% of Windows software runs after you run the .exe
Which programs require so much troubleshooting for you?
I just spent 30+ minutes troubleshooting an MS office installer today that would just shut off after the splash screen, on a friend’s brand new laptop… But then again, I spent two hours trying to get my old Brother network scanner/printer on Manjaro a few weeks ago.
Or: I can only print intermittently at best.
That’s HP’s fault and isn’t Linux specific.
I run Ubuntu at work where we have an Epson printer. My print jobs are mysteriously canceled ~50% of the time, and wouldn’t work at all throughout Ubuntu 20.10 and only started intermittently working with 22.10. (They were mysteriously quite reliable with 18.10.) Looking around on the Ubuntu forums, I was hardly alone. None of the posted fixes worked for my case, and seemed unreliable for others as well. A cursory Internet search shows me that printing problems are endemic to Linux and have been for a long time.
We don’t have a Windows machine to compare, but the Mac on the front desk prints 100% of the time without fail barring paper jam or something else that is the fault of the printer.
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If I want to dd /dev/zero to my bootsector, goddammit, let me do it.
I was having trouble getting a DVD ripped, so I thought “Fuck it. I’m going to try dd”. I used .iso for the file extension, and it worked.
I mean that is more a product of how .iso files are just the whole disk as a binary with a file extension
sudo pacman -R glibc
I think it’s humorous how many people are getting offended at such a silly post
So many people here are butthurt because of a small meme that pokes fun at what 90% of end users experience.
Its not Linux’s fault they can’t take a joke about windows. And yet somehow we are the elitist snowflake gatekeepers, or whatever buzzword they wanna use today.
Linux users are like Vegans. No one likes them and they won’t stop bratting about being a Linux user.
I’m slowly going down the open source rabbit hole, but I have yet to fully go down the part where you preach about it like it’s a God. I hope I never get that far, as I also use Linux from time to time as well. I ain’t looking to be one of those annoying users who constantly brings it up if I can help it.
Talking about Linux is fine. Coming into any tech/tech support post, screaming that Linux is the answer, even if the person explains why they need Windows/Mac, is not.
It’s like the Christians that comment on a dying persons tiktok about how God knows best, and God will heal them lmao. Literally not helpful and extremely ignorant and rude.
On the plus side, even if you did need to update Linux, it’s not like you are running anything on it anyways.
I saw a post on Lemmy super recently how Tux Racer is literally better than any other game ever made, and how that’s the power of FOSS gaming. It was not satire.
Today I spent 50 minutes figuring out why my app could not set itself as default for www.instagram.com links. I don’t have IG installed.
Turns out the latest Samsung OTA update re-enabled Meta App Manager, Meta App Installer and Meta Services. Any of which, while enabled, will result in the user setting an app to handle certain domain links, only for the users action to be instantly reversed without notification.
Edit: that’s a gif if it doesn’t show up correctly. I had an app advertise itself as IG but Meta kept hijacking the link handler. An uninstallable Samsung forced Meta app, that enables itself back after each OTA update.
If this was on desktop, someone would already be sued. But android? “Sorry can’t uninstall system app”
That’s a Samsung issue, not Android specifically
Honestly, I have no idea why Samsung phones are so highly regarded in the Android world. Yes they have great hardware but their software is trash and has been trash for many years.
I’d call it an Android issue, as the OS lets vendors force uninstallable apps into their devices.
You don’t get it. Samsung modifies Android to the extent that it’s barely recognisable anymore. If you want to experience a pure Android experience, get a Google Pixel or flash your own ROM
Samsung’s software is garbage and the main reason I will never buy their phones no matter how great their hardware is
The difference is, Samsung isn’t able to modify for example their Windows devices like this, which is why I say the root issue lives in the OS level. It’s one thing to bundle vendor software in, it’s another when that OS has a feature in which you only let the owner of the device disable, not uninstall, said software.
That’s because windows is closed source, duh. The beauty of Android is that you have the option to flash the version you want. You just choose to stick with the worst out of all Android versions and then complain about it lol
You’re like a boomer complaining about Internet Explorer being slow
Samsung’s software is garbage and the main reason I will never buy their phones no matter how great their hardware is
Amen.
Their “superior hardware” means nothing when the software is so garbage, the camera lags. The phone is full of bloatware despite buying it outright and unlocked. The phone pushes ads into every fucking app. The phone shows you a “themes” button on your homescreen, but then takes you to the store to buy more… like wtf? I don’t want to be shown price tags when I just dropped $2,000 on this phone. At least come pre-installed with a couple Samsung supported themes!?
Hey there I came across this program on lemmy. Maybe that could help uninstalling Meta App Manager. https://github.com/0x192/universal-android-debloater
Also my Samsung tablet wants to use the emmc as swap space with no way to disable it 💀
I’m sure this wouldn’t cause any performance issues at all…
Are you using a carrier device or an unlocked device? All of my Samsung devices are unlocked and have almost no bloat, no meta stuff in sight.
Regardless, check out methods of uninstalling system apps with ADB. If you don’t have a computer to use, the app, LADB, let’s you use ADB commands on the device and executes them over wifi through wireless ADB
Unlocked Z Fold 5. Does adb require rooting? I’ll google.
ADB does not require root. Just need a computer with ADB set up, or the app LADB (purchase on the app store) and a WiFi network.
I don’t have Meta app baked on my S23. Could be a region thing?
Don’t buy scummy Samsung devices. Any company that comes with Meta bloat, even when you buy them outright, fully unlocked, doesn’t deserve your money.
My first smartphone was a Samsung. It was also my last Samsung device.
Windows also doesn’t let you remove system apps.
Bro, do you even PowerShell? This is what happens when you refuse to use anything other than Linux. You become OS-illiterate and have no idea how to do basic shit in other systems, just like the morons who have to use Chromebooks in school and have no idea how a file system works.
Try me 😂
You can totally remove them, but it’ll just reinstall them back, or worst case scenario, you’ll break a part of your system, because Windows is a giant monolith of decades of built-up stupidity
Tbf, every moderately old software product is a collection of built-up stupidity.
even the kernel linux?
Checkmate, atheists
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TIL what QubesOS is, what an interesting concept!
I’m happy for you.
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Sorry, it wasn’t supposed to be sarcastic. As I read it I thought it was ambiguous too, but for some reason I couldn’t think of a way to clarify. Somehow I forgot about the existence of tone indicators.
I’ve been pretty out of it due to significant physical pain. I’ve been using Lemmy as a way to talk to strangers I treat as friends, as a distraction I don’t think too much about. I’m sorry for any confusion. I send a stranger’s well wishes.
I’m genuinely happy for you that Windows works. It didn’t for me, but that’s alright. And sometimes an OS is just a tool, not an identity.
You can’t delete system apps on Android, but you can disable the ones that won’t break your phone if they’re disabled. I currently have Chrome, the Play Store (and, at least to an extent, Google Play Services), YouTube, and YouTube Music all disabled.
Well if you root your phone you can definetly delete any app.
This is true, but I’m not at the point where I feel the need to do that. There are things I like about Google’s Android and things I dislike about it. I just try to mitigate what I dislike about it as much as possible.
If Google stopped allowing 3rd party app installs, I’d definitely switch, though.
You can, pretty easily. Enable developer mode and use adb. Doesn’t need root. (At least I didn’t for YouTube; not sure about the rest)
Hm. I’ll see if this works for YouTube, YouTube Music, and Chrome. They’re only collecting dust right now since I switched to ReVanced and Firefox. Thanks! (I still need the Play Store since Google Play System Updates are run through it.)
The duck can’t actually say anything because his sound drivers randomly stopped working.
PipeWire for life
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That would be really annoying (when I would use sound)
On the other hand, the Nvidia card I use refuses to work via the external monitor (USB-C) at power on when plugged in. Power on, then plug in, then I have screen… weird.
- Apple: We support apple hardware
- Microsoft: We support hardware from this list
- Linux: You want support, write it yourself.
- Nvidia: You want support, use windows
- Laptop developers: You want performance, oh, you’re a gamer, here have a Nvidia card.
You might ask, why a laptop: power consumption for the moments I don’t need power. I don’t want QHD on 17", 24" is better for my aging eyes so external monitor is a requirement. (previous one had 4K on 15", cheapest screen option to buy)
Who out there using computers without sound?
I bet you say it was your own choice as well to miss a standard feature.
“Why yes, I do use a computer without a monitor, I have memorised everything! No don’t look behind the curtain at the shattered monitor, it was my own choice!”
Who out there using computers without sound?
I use my computers without sound, until I watch a vid (I use headphones for that). I hate the constant beeps for attention. Same with tablets, no sound, not even when playing a game. The only device that is allowed to make a sound is the phone. (and then very limited)
Linux: “my users spend half their time troubleshooting”
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At least most problems under Linux have solutions and if you are really desperate you have the option to fix it yourself in the source or pay someone to do it. Under windows, if microsoft doesn’t care about your problem, you either find a workaround or live with it.
Because of the ginormous community, every problem has a solution in Windows.
If it isn’t a Microsoft sanctioned solution, then multiple third party solutions exists that fix it.
Windows has a hell of a lot more support than any Linux distribution does.
If it isn’t a Microsoft sanctioned solution, then multiple third party solutions exists that fix it.
That’s not how this works. If it’s not a Microsoft-sancioned solution, it literally cannot be fixed no matter how much effort you put in. You need an API to work with Windows. If Microsoft does not provide you with an API, you can’t do it. And even if you find a way to hack together something, you have zero guarantee an update won’t just come along and fuck it. Linux distros are open source, you can change quite literally any thing about them. That is what that person was talking about.
I’ve had hard time troubleshooting on Windows because everything is obfuscated behind so many layers. And there’s just things you can’t feasibly do. But it does seem to work well most of the time.
I can’t say I share this experience as I spend a lot more than half my time using Linux watching documentaries on youtube in a web browser. If you are obsessed with personalization I could see this happening, but I happen to prefer using default (as in “possible to consistently re-apply”) settings on most things.
Regardless, troubleshooting makes you better at resolving trouble that you didn’t bring about on your own, and life is defined by unexpected troubles. It is better to be antifragile than happy!
I guess you’re lucky (or much more tech-savvy than me). I tried to switch to linux once many years ago (pre-COVID, which is like ancient times now). It was horrible. Oh, I now need to learn about file systems and NTFS and ext3/4(?) - i guess i’ll try Linux on a separate, old hard drive. Ok, something didn’t work, I now have to figure out what driver wasn’t supported and what I need to download. Great, people on forums are helpful but they’re asking me a bunch of gibberish. Now I gotta figure out this command line thing. Oh cool some people built GUIs for certain stuff so i don’t need to play with the command line, but then the GUI doesn’t work occasionally and now I have to figure out if it’s the GUI that broke or something else. And then at some point I got stuck because of file permissions.
Ok, something didn’t work, I now have to figure out what driver wasn’t supported and what I need to download.
Unlike in Windows where you never need to download drivers. As executable binaries you have no chance of checking. Sometimes from very questionable sources. And actually you can be happy if it’s only a driver. Installing random 3rd party tools just to get basic functionality is a thing.
people on forums are helpful
Which also happens for Windows. But rarely. And if they really try… then there are still 10 different answers to a single problem and you have to test which one works for your specific version (no, chosing the most recent one sounds logical but is rarely the answer).
Now I gotta figure out this command line thing. Oh cool some people built GUIs for certain stuff so i don’t need to play with the command line
Which in what way is worse then editing random obscure values in the registry? Because it’s a window you type in. And in the worst case even the Windows help starts with poweshell nowadays, which is exactly the same.
And then at some point I got stuck because of file permissions.
That’s a solveable problem. Unlike in Windows where they put file permissions on top a file system not having them in a weird unintutive way. And don’t ever try to change the wrong permission as an administrator as that’s simply not allowed. After all you don’t own your Windows PC, MS just gratiously allows you to use it.
So, you see… it’s all a matter of perspective.
Trying to use proprietary drivers and NTFS on Linux is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. People work hard to make it work and maybe it does with a little effort but the proprietary model and Linux distros just don’t mesh well together. If you make it a point to purchase hardware that has open source drivers and use open source software (and as a consumer, you probably should anyway), everything does just work. Obviously this may not suit your use case and Linux may just not be for you.
NTFS is okay if you’re mounting a drive that you share with a Windows machine but don’t actually install Linux to an NTFS partition please. Most of the “beginner friendly” distros I don’t think even let you.
If I was in your situation, I would try installing openSUSE or Fedora Linux on a computer where you don’t care if the entire disk gets wiped occasionally, using a flash drive you also don’t care about getting wiped occasionally. They probably have sufficiently comprehensive installers and installation instructions for you to succeed in using one of them, and if you don’t care about the content of the disks you use you’ll be more willing to experiment with the installation process (even though it’s unlikely your computer will work worse due to trying to install a Linux distribution). If you use a computer that has become slower and less usable than you’d like you will probably be pleasantly surprised by the results!
Also, you can back up your product keys and prepare a Microsoft Windows installation disk if being able to go back to Windows 10 makes you more comfortable with experimenting.
Overall, Linux enhanced my ability to to get productive work done, and also the opportunity to experiment and learn more about how to use computers to solve problems. I think learning how to use a GNU operating system is a good long term investment, though if you still need to keep around at least one computer that runs Microsoft Windows to protect your income I won’t disparage you.
I have to use windows at work. I have to spend a lot more time trouble shooting there than on my bleeding edge rolling release linux at home.
That is because you perform more work on your work computer instead of browsing lemmy all day.
