what’s y’alls stance on found, discarded animal-based food?
I’m dumpster diving for the past couple of months. combined with cruising the farmer markets around closing time, I usually score enough food that I have trouble carrying it home. seasonal vegetables and fruit mostly. I know a couple of spots where supermarkets throw away whole loafs of “expired” bread. in the freezer overnight, 7 minutes in the oven at dinner time - perfectly edible.
I’ve stopped eating meat like five years ago and I abandoned dairy and eggs a year ago. feel fine, lost weight; skin, hair and nails ain’t the same but I’ll live with it.
occasionally though I come across thrown away, intact meat and/or dairy stuff. like today, almost 5 Kg of some deli meat shit, I imagine it’s pink slime inside, haven’t opened it. it’s past its best use date which don’t bother me none. I’m not drawn to it, don’t miss the taste or whatever, I’m just bothered by the waste of it.
so I’m not saying I’m gonna be swayed one way or the other but curious what other people think about this. thanks.
I feel the same way as I would about if I found discarded human meat. I might eat it if I was going to die otherwise, but I wouldn’t be happy about it.
skin, hair and nails ain’t the same but I’ll live with it.
comrade get some supplements they’re not that expensive. you do not have to waste away for the greater good. the meat eaters don’t even get this shit naturally, the animals just get the supplements instead
thank you for your concern. that’s not in the cards right now but maybe in the future. got any recommendations, like generic stuff that might be effective?
Now I ain’t a doctor but if you’re vegan supplementing B12 is basically a must unless you’re eating ungodly amounts of fermented food and even then the jurys kind of out on that one. Literally any OTC stuff will do, if you’re already dumpster diving I figure you might well find a pack of b12 pills in a blister there that are as fine to take as anything out of a dumpster
Hair and Nails might also be protein depending on if you just axed all the animal based stuff out of your diet with little replacement.
My dumpster diving days are far behind me, but that attitude used to be called “freegan”.
For me, I wouldn’t criticize anyone who chose to eat animal flesh sourced in this manner - no one in the capitalist supply chain is going to make any money off you, you’re not increasing demand for animal flesh, eating that flesh does no harm to any living animal and makes it no more or less likely that more animals will be killed.
At the same time, the personal is political, and part of that is living your values in a way that is not only consistent but appears consistent to others. Publicly eating like a vegan, and sharing how your diet reflects your system of ethics, normalizes veganism and encourages people to respect and consider your point of view. Every time you, as a vegan, share a meal with others, you are also sharing your values, even if you unobtrusively choose a vegan meal option and don’t say a word about other people’s choices.
But if you call yourself a vegan, and then you eat meat, or wear leather, or otherwise consume animal products, it taints you with perceived hypocrisy, discredits your words and actions, and makes other vegans look bad by association.
Also, it just feels icky.
OP, I would ask, are you part of a collective? Are you in contact with other dumpster divers you could share or trade food with? Because I hate the waste involved, too, and though I wouldn’t eat the animal flesh myself I would be willing to give it to someone whose ethics permit it.
am not. thought about giving it away to street folk I come across but the idea doesn’t jive with me - hey here’s some expired shit hopefully you won’t die bye!
And you’re right to feel that way. Sharing dumpstered food with other dumpster divers who share your values is one thing - plenty of urban communes with shared kitchens do it. Sharing dumpstered food with random people on the street? I wouldn’t do that either 😆
People also call themselves “freegan” if they accept any animal based food others are giving them.
So I dont like that word
The point is harm minization right? Well eating it is gonna cause as much harm as letting it rot so might as well? As always the comparison for me is what if it were human and in this case I would be revolted at the thought but don’t see a good reason not to if you aren’t.
In the same way that anti-racists can still have unaddressed racist beliefs, vegans can still have unaddressed carnist beliefs that they should try to get out of their minds. Thinking of uneaten meat as a ‘waste’ of food is one such belief. It means you still ultimately think of non-human animals as products to be eaten. Like, do you consider a burial to be a ‘waste’ of good human meat? Why do you have a different opinion on non-human meat? If you don’t like seeing them rotting in the trash, you can give them a burial.
Unless you do consider burials a waste of resources I guess, then keep doing what you’re doing.
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not a vegan
why do you even post then? You have no insight to offer, evidently don’t know the first thing about veganism but decide to add to the sea of vegetarian and carnist apologia on a vegan comm anyway.
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Veganism is the belief that non-human animal pain and suffering is as valid as human pain and suffering, that the right to exercise their own will is a right for all animals. It’s not some vibe based “communing with nature” or whatever it’s about animal liberation. The reason vegans seem so combative is because there’s a principled stance behind it and not just “i think animals are really cute I could nevar!!”
I don’t care for your support for “veganism”. It means jack and I spit on supposed allies that still are part of the baby killing machine. Their cheers mean nothing if they don’t stop killing newborns, worse than nothing they think it absolves them somehow??
I also don’t care about your opinions on how to convince others to become vegan when you can’t even convince yourself. I know how I got convinced and it wasn’t people hemming and hawing about the animal genocide but centering the non-human animals and keeping the focus on them.
I understand your anger and impatience, I feel it too. Still I believe this attitude is not helping. Yeah, some omnis need a little push sometime, to challenge their ideology. But this is a little too much, in my humble opinion. You’re giving them an excellent excuse to just leave.
I don’t care about outreach in this case. This is a vegan comm where a vegan is asking a question to other vegans and yet this carnist thinks he gets to have an opinion? I mean look at this idiot:
milk and honey for example, are not vegan, despite it not necessarily doing physical pain and suffering to the animal.
No clue but yapping anyway. This is a problem with the predominantly white carnist cis men in this app who think they can just come and go into any space at any time as they please because that’s how it’s been for them their whole life. They think that they can Just Ask Questions and others are obliged to debate them in a polite and restrained manner so that they may “educate themselves” or whatever. It’s not just a problem in vegan comms, but in female only comms, trans comms etc. And if they aren’t shown the door in a resolute manner they will return with their uninformed, braindead opinions instead of shutting up and reading before writing.
Edit: what really ticked me off is this notion of “ally to vegans” as it completely deplatforms the animals. It’s not just congratulatory to the vegan as if they’re being extraordinarily virtuous and denying themselves a luxury like some ascetic, but self congratulary as if some of that virtuosity might be bestowed upon the carnist excusing their “transgressions” by “allying” with the vegans. As if not wanting to kill, maim or otherwise subjugate thinking, feeling creatures is a good deed and not just the absence of evil. Being a vegan does not make you good, but not being a vegan makes you evil.
oops. Just noticed you quoted that, rather than saying it. Sorry :)
Yeah and the idiot I’m quoting is still arguing about it 🤣
but self congratulary as if some of that virtuosity might be bestowed upon the carnist excusing their “transgressions” by “allying” with the vegans
Yes, it feels like being used for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-licensing
Most of my vegan friends would disagree with you, but you’re welcome to believe what you would like.
aw thanks thats very generous 😊 btw I don’t speak like this irl because of the repercussions I might face. I certainly think it, but whenever someone talks about being half-vegan or how they “simply couldn’t without cheese” I crack a smile remain polite and remind myself to choose my battles. I absolutely want to let loose on them but I don’t. The more self-congratulatory, the more polite I become to exit the conversation asap.
Veganism is the belief that non-human animal pain and suffering is as valid as human pain and suffering
congratulations you just explained why I basically said its not vegan in a traditional sense, and what OP is thinking about is closer to a sect in vegetarianism. unless you read my intitial post in a completely different way as I kind of explicitly said it isnt veganism.
It doesnt require a vegan to say what OP is saying is not vegan
your definition by the way isn’t completely vegan either. as veganism includes not eating any byproduct of an animal, so milk and honey for example, are not vegan, despite it not necessarily doing physical pain and suffering to the animal.
I don’t know why you cut out the other half of the sentence as it answers the rest of your post basically:
the right to exercise their own will is a right for all animals
There is no ethical slavery no matter how “well” the slaves are treated. That’s why even if it were possible to extract milk from a cow in a completely painless manner the fact that they are property is already at odds with being vegan.
As for your assertion that milk and honey don’t cause physical pain and suffering to the animal
- for milk: https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/eating-dairy-products-is-not-unethical
- for honey: https://yourveganfallacyis.com/en/honey-is-not-unethical
A bit more of a visual guide:
https://web.archive.org/web/20250403130922/https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/403444/dairy-industry-cow-life-milk-americaOr just straight up look at the gore yourself:
https://watchdominion.org/This is exactly why I said that “you have no insight to offer” and “evidently don’t know the first thing about veganism”. You have no idea how true that is because you don’t even know what you dont know.
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We got a carnist in here saying stupid shit, can we get a cleanup crew
i didnt say they didnt cause pain, I said they dont necessarily cause it. they can be collected in a way that does indeed cause it, but its not inherently pain.
…
the fact you chose a battle by more or less twisting what I said is not putting you in a good place.Youre such a terrific moron, like the archetype of a carnist.
A: you refuse to read, here is what I wrote to address that
the right to exercise their own will is a right for all animals
There is no ethical slavery no matter how “well” the slaves are treated. That’s why even if it were possible to extract milk from a cow in a completely painless manner the fact that they are property is already at odds with being vegan.
B: you have to insist on hypotheticals that are at best some edge cases but aren’t really relevant to daily consumption.
Even if it were possible to extract milk painlessly (it isn’t) and it were possible to do so in an ethical manner (another nonstarter) the fact is that this isn’t happening. Why insist on arguing about something that isn’t real, but some imagined world where you make the rules how you want? Arguing about spherical cows in a frictionless vacuum is not really relevant in our day-to-day lives.
C: you refuse to read the material you are being spoonfed.
It simply isn’t possible to extract milk painlessly and the material I linked explains why. I’d like to see you argue how you would impregnate a cow, get rid of her baby so you can have the milk for yourself in a painless manner. Keeping in mind that being able to control her life in such a manner already is not vegan.
D: you don’t consider what actual vegans say.
if there was a piece of a honey comb for example thats just abandoned, would it still be vegan, something abandoned like checks notes ops question.
I already answered this here https://lemmy.ml/comment/21393729 and most other vegans seem to, more or less, agree.
there are always those weird as blurred lines like the debate on whether figs are vegan.
not really. It’s very easy “are the animals property or free?”. When in doubt ask yourself “what if it were a human?” and there then is your answer.
despite it not necessarily doing physical pain and suffering to the animal.
Okay… but what about the male calves? Does a bolt to the head or a knife to the throat at a few hours, days, or weeks old not cause suffering to the animal?
the odd assumption you guys are making is you assumed i was talking about a commercial sense. do you not see the conclusions you automatically jumped to without me having not mentioned a single thing about farming involved in the situation.
unless you believe in the ghastly picture that male calves all roam wild with bolts on their head and knoves at their throat.
no ones defending commecialization farming of animals. not even myself.
you do know how a cow has milk, right? She’s pregnant or just given birth. They’re not gonna let the calf drink the milk, because that milk is for us. Whether that’s on a factory farm, or whether that’s on a farm where the farmer “cares” about his animals. (protip: he doesn’t)
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It might be worth saving, simply for the sake of preventing food waste. You don’t have to eat it, but you may know people who could prevent it from going to waste.
My main concern would be the bacteria thriving on that.
Stale bread: just less tasty, and mold can seen/tasted easily
Similar for veges, probably thrown because “not as fresh looking”
But expired meat? That means the poor animal has been butchered weeks/months ago and it’s in decomposition
I’m not a vegan but I think vegans are fucking awesome. That’s all.
“I don’t think women should be allowed to own property but I think feminists are fucking awesome.” In what way, exactly?? Can you not see how condescending and insincere that sounds?
I think you misunderstand because my reply was so short and without detail. I would be a vegan but I’m too weak and don’t have discipline. I constantly admire vegans for doing something I won’t. I feel as though I am wrong and evil for consuming meat. Pathetic, even.
With that in mind, your analogy doesn’t make sense. In this instance it would be more like “I own land, but think land owning is bad.” Hypocritical, absolutely, but not bigoted. I feel like there is a distinct difference, and if you’re receptive to this, you may find in hindsight that there was no intended condescension or insincerity in what I said.
If I’m still missing the point I’m happy to learn something today, if you’ll teach me.
When I am out walking around in public, I don’t use any willpower or discipline not to steal someone’s phone. To not kick a child who gets in my way. To not murder someone whose car I want. Likewise, it doesn’t take any willpower or discipline whatsoever to not be cruel and violent to vulnerable individuals like cows, pigs, and chickens. You are not experiencing a failure of discipline but rather a failure of empathy. You are not engaging your empathy, and you are not recognizing the moral existence of the individuals you are murdering. Because if you were, YOU WOULDN’T DO IT, and you certainly wouldn’t fucking moan about how hard it is not to fucking murder to a bunch of vegans.
Your comments are so misdirected. We don’t do it for you. We genuinely don’t care what you think. If we cared what people thought, we probably wouldn’t have gone vegan in the first place. When you come here and tell us how much you support us, you’re really just using us for the purpose of moral self-licensing. It feels gross.
I admitted it’s evil and said I feel pathetic. I said I want to listen. And yet, here you are, showing nothing but vitriol. You’re not the empathetic person you think you are if this is how you respond to someone willing to learn.
Since you said you dont care what others think, heres what I think: Fuck you, loser. Vegans are awesome, but you’re a disgrace for how you talk to people. You’re doing the right thing by not eating animals, but you’re clearly a shitty, bitter person if this is how you talk to people.
