Wasn’t 9/11 retaliation born from a coup or something to do with assad?
Afghanistan, Palestine, US bases in Arab lands and cruel and crippling sanctions against Iraq:
https://www.newsweek.com/osama-bin-laden-911-letter-transcript-12427271
“The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq,” bin Laden wrote. “This is why the American people cannot be innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.”
If you strip out the religious speech from the declaration their reasons for doing this are pretty “rational”. The religion is mostly the ideological bond between different peoples. Besides some very problematic religious repression.
If the Americans refuse to listen to our advice … then their fate will be that of the Soviets who fled from Afghanistan to deal with their military defeat, political breakup, ideological downfall, and economic bankruptcy.
The larger strategy was pretty clear, draw the US into unsustainable wars that shorten their “unipolar moment” of being the only global superpower.
You mean they didn’t “hate us for our freedoms” like the Dubya administration kept telling us?
I wonder how many people who actually thought about that line for half a minute still thought it was accurate.
westure culture is built on a fake foundation that requires constant patching, manipulation, and war to keep functional. It’s an insane concept. Instead of living with the universe and nature, we actively created our own system that nature and the universe is constantly breaking down. We live against the grain of universal growth.
Native cultures warned us, Islam warns us (not western Islam), nature warns us…
Afghanistan. The CIA created instability within the country arming fundamentalists that caused a nasty civil war. The point was to bait the Soviets into a quagmire. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Afghan_War
Calling the genocide in Gaza terrorism cheapens the word. What is happening in Gaza is far beyond terrorism. If not for the pictures and video evidence, it would be a natural response to not want to believe something so utterly horrible and depraved to be contemporary.
I understand the sentiment of the meme though. It’s easy to believe what Israel is doing is righteous, if their victims are not considered human.
How about the dead Afghani’s? Iraqi’s? They were all terrorists…really??
Edit: Typo
Don’t forget the illegal settlers, I saw a video of an interaction where a settler literally calls the military group asking for support.
And they routinely get the support they ask for.
The USA has carpet bombed entire nations, more than one, into the dust.
They weren’t all enemy combatants, either.
Israel thinks they are in the right, just as the USA believed it was right (and Germany, Japan, UK, Russia, et al).
I don’t think they want a two-state solution, and I think the Palestinians agree, they also don’t want a two-state solution. Their long-term goals are to destroy the other (from the river to the sea).
Do all Palestinians and Jews agree? Of course not. But, the violent fundamentalists of both do agree.
History has proven that you can totally destroy Jerusalem, and fundamentalist Islam, Jews, and Christians will be more than happy to fight over the Holy Rubble.
How do you resolve this? The territory has been owned by Jews, Muslims, Christians; Babylon, Ottoman Empire, United Kingdom, Rome, Greeks, and more.
the violent fundamentalists of both do agree.
Conservatism(the tool of the Epstein class) is the real enemy. Consider that when the Obama admin was negotiating the nuclear deal with Iran, the people who fought against the deal were the conservatives in the UK, the US, Iran and Israel. They all wanted conflict instead.
It was the liberals around the world who supported a peaceful outcome.
Damn, can’t believe Israel would just do this for no reason at all. They just felt like it I guess. 9/11 though? It’s too naunced to say whether it’s justified or not, smh
I honestly think this point would be a useful addition to the discussion if skillfully communicated.
Unfortunately, you really did a piss poor job of it.
Found the Zionazi
Israel had the reason of “we love raping children without consequences by claiming self-defense.”
Oh right. October 7th is fully justified too, so Israel truly did declare war just because they’re evil money grubbing Zionists, I forgot. There is no such thing as a israeli cilivan since they’re europeans faking being jewish so everyone murdered or kidnapped deserved it and the rapes never happened and the witnesses testifying such are lying whores since they don’t support October 7th happening to them. You’re so right. Also Israel was asking for October 7th to happen because they held a music festival so close to the border. Anyway, Israel is bad so I guess Hamas is completely free from any criticism.
Anyway, maybe some common ground. We just force the jews…I mean Eurpeons faking their ethnicity to extract resources such as…to Wyoming so we never have to worry about the middle east again since it’ll become a paradise. Deal?
How about the fact that since the inception of the state of Israel (and even before that really), the Zionists have relegated the people of Palestine as second class citizens? The Nakba? Or are we pretending that the apartheid state did not exist prior to October 7?
Is it antisemetic to mention the soldiers that have been caught on video gangraping prisoners of war? Sniping children? Double tapping when Red Crescent shows up?
Shame on you.
I don’t even support Israel, I think both sides suck. What I was trying to get across is that apparently arabs can’t ever do anything bad ever because they’re antiwest and thus they are Luke Skywalker and the entire west is the evil empire…apparently. Everything is good guy bad guy, how convenient. Guess America did deserve 9/11 since we are ALL EVIL
The children getting massacred and the ones that are doing it both suck?
Apparently you are all fucking evil. Don’t breed. Genuinely.
Can I come with my family and take your house please? If you agree and give me everything, YOU WILL NEVER HAVE THE RIGHT TO RETURN. (btw that’s why 90% of Palestinians in THE WORLD are immirgrants! Palestinain ethnicity is the largest by percentage worldwide!) (btw#2 90% of Israrlis did not come from palestine. Check your grandfather passport because DNA testing is banned.)
If you resist and you don’t leave, I will take your kids hostage and cut their limps and rape them and torture them for years without trails or any law protecting you. And if you don’t resist and agree to get out but don’t leave the country for any reason, we will put you in refugee tents and what everyone has described as concentration camps since 2000, starve you with low calories, not allow you to leave open air prison, surveille you and control you like slaves, kidnape you and all your family without trails and torture you for years, and just bomb you every other day for the rest of your life, and you will never have any humanrights which my family enjoy. Full genocidal aprthied is what this deal is and you will agree to be on the other end of it.
And alll of that pre fucking Oct-7.
Deal? Yes or No? Or according to you “bOtH sIdEs SuCk” … Read history , Where do you think all of Gazans came from? They were ethnically cleansed from what you call Tel Aviv… and until this day you kept them enslaved and slaughterd them like pigs. Open your eyes, those people are humans. You have to now agree to be on the other side of this deal I put up to you.
Do you want to challenge me to provide real life evidence of everything I said in that paragraph?
Pick and choose. And alll of that pre fucking Oct-7.
I will not bring you any story or evidence after Oct-7
because your history started on oct-7 2023 where 1000 were killed including the gaurds who were jailing and killing them dancing outside their prison. Then you get to genocide 100,000 and maim and injure 200,000 and displace and destroy the homes of 2,000,000 … bUt OcT-7 hAmAs …You were brainwashed in a cult. You grew up with stolen supramcist privileges and now your human nature refuses to face the facts of what you’ve been doing and on whom expense you lived your entire life.
I never met a Zio who naturally defends this shit. They all have something to illegally and unrightfully and inhumanly gain from it, and so much to lose if they opposed it. Never met a Zio who is not paid, no birthright trips, no free home, no free healthcare and college from US taxes, no freedom to literally kill and do whatever evil they want to their Palestinain slaves. I have yet to see one who is inhumanly supramacist and genocidal because it makes sense or right… because no it is not.
This is where I will agree 100%. Isreal shouldn’t have formed in the first place by kicking people out. Now that it is here though, where do we send the Jews after Hamas kicks them out? Iraq? Or is America unironically going to try yet another regime change in the middle east because third times the charm I guess because that is only way things will end without a genocide from either side. America or another super power declaring war on a NUCLEAR POWER and annexing everything because Hamas sure as fuck doesn’t want equal rights for jews.
Plenty of blame to go around to basically everyone in the world, for one thing or another. Arguing whether the US deserved 9/11 is stupid. Most Americans have no idea what lead to the attack. For fucks’ sake, most Americans have no idea that we played a direct role in the creation of the Islamic revolution in Iran.
We are the baddies.
This is like saying both slaves and slave owners sucked or both First Nations and the colonizers sucked.
Friendly reminder here that Netanyahu knew in advance that October 7 would happen and the security services were told not to stop it because they wanted justification for what they were planning to do to Palestine anyway.
If true then fuck him too. How does that excuse Hamas’s actions? If I left my door unlocked for Ted Bundy and he ends up raping and murdering my wife, is Ted Bundy all the sudden innocent in this scenario because I let it happen? If anything, this just makes Hamas look really dumb for handing Benjamin Netanyahu a casus belli on a sliver platter.
The 7 october 2023’s bodycam footage will haunt me when I turn senile.
It is ignored by most people just like Iran bombing Tel Aviv in october 2024, by Iranian official statements, celebrate Hamas their actions a year prior.
The current result in Gaza was the only realistic outcome of what started 3 years ago.
However this is not proportionate and is just making sure this cycle will continue forever by creating a new generation of ‘terrorists’. It is a dumb course of action and even though most of the world hates on Israel for the wrong reasons, the international pressure is valid.
Israel pretends to be a civilized nation, then it should start acting like it.
Yeah, we should pressure Israel internationally to be more civilized like Biden was trying to do by refusing to give new shipment of weapons to Israel and air dropping aid in Gaza to prevent a famine that is now happening today after we as a nation decided he and Harris were Nazis for not going hard enough and instead elected Trump which in comparison just gave Israel a blank check to do whatever the fuck they want. Glad we stopped the genocide in 2024 by letting Trump win
This did not start 3 years ago, stop telling lies. Gaza prior to October 7 was still hell. It was an open air concentration camp where Israel regularly deprived the Palestinians of enough food, electricity, and healthcare. They also regularly “mowed the lawn” aka massacre civilians. If you think the Palestinians were supposed to just lie down and take it then you have no regard for their humanity. If their violent resistance on October 7 haunts you, Imagine how haunted the Palestinians are to lose their homes, have their loved ones massacred en masse, be subject to state sanctioned rape and torture in Israeli prisons, and then be told by privileged people outside of their country that they should peacefully let it happen.
October 7th is fully justified too
Israel was doing shit to Gaza long before the October 7th thing.
Anyway, Israel is bad so I guess Hamas is completely free from any criticism.
Nobody is arguing Hamas are the good guys. Although, I’m pretty sure Hamas was born out of frustration with things Israel was doing in the region. But, by all means, ignore everything else and keep throwing around a bunch of fallacies to justify a genocide.
He said “claims self-defense”, which implies support for Hamas since apparently Israel doesn’t have the right to defend themselves against the groups that constantly attack them because fuck Israel I guess
The day Israel end colonization of the West Bank, and lift the blockade on Gaza they will have that right until then only palestinians has the right to self defense
You think your being funny, but i’ve lived in Alabama.
Not a lot of room between southern baptist and al-Qaeda.
i would argue you could expand “southern baptists” with “all fundamentalist evangelicals” especially if they subscribe to biblical infallibility.
they tried to brainwash me but i was able to escape. now my own family makes me feel unsafe.
There’s a reason I’ve been calling fundamentalist Christians in the US, “The Christian Taliban”
Talibangelicals
Y’all-Queda
Brown schoolchildren… Eh who cares. I want cheap gas.
-America.
And we get the opposite.
What a confusing time to be a non-Israeli Jew that supports the Palestinian peoples from Israeli brutality. I guess the same could be said about non-trump americans? Fuck brutality. Peace for all, regardless of political stripes.
I’m on the side of unarmed civilians with pro-social impulses.
A lot of parallels between netanyahu and trump, both barely have majority voting support and are starting false wars to delay domestic investigations.
Millions of Israeli Jews feel the same as you and have been voting against netanyahu.
Terrorism is the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, to achieve political, religious, or ideological goals.
Genocide is an international crime defined as specific acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.
What happened in 2001 is in fact terrorism.
What’s happening in Gaza is in fact genocide.
Both are bad one is worse. If you can’t figure out which one is the worst one please reevaluate your life choices.
Genocide is also terrorism.
Israel is committing act of genocide which is violent in the goal of extermination palestinians under the belief of the religious, policitical and ideological zionist mouvement
Gaza is both
Yeah. The second one is genocide and (often conveniently undeclared) war.
School shootings and ICE kidnapping innocent civilians are terrorism, though.
school shootings generally aren’t about achieving political or other goals
they’re mass murder; not terrorism
AFAIK the goal is often some sense of revenge.
The funny thing is that Israel was behind both of them.
Let’s not pretend that the US is magically incapable of independently being vile, lol.
Israel as a nation state did not exist until 1948. We were committing atrocities well before that.
Federal, state and territorial governments of the US paid bounties for the scalps of Native Americans and in some states, for Mexicans as well. There was a mass depopulation effort to make room for settlers.
The top one is political violence. The bottom one is state terrorism.
The.primary state terrorists today are the US and israel
Russia is certainly trying.
How come Hamas is not in your list?
I really thought this was satire, then looked at your comment history. Fuck me.
Hamas is an anti colonial resistance movement.
The terrorists are the Zionist child killers who have stolen Palestine from it’s inhabitants
It were the Zionists that orchestrated a 2 week long jew hunt in Amsterdam, November 2024.
It were the Zionists that attacked Israel on the 7th October 2023 to give Netanyahu the Casus Belli for the topic of this discussion.
It were the Zionists that wasted tens of billions of aid funds in Gaza for war and suppression, rather than their own people.
It were the Zionists that attempted to kill the kings of Jordan and Egypt.
It were the Zionists that threw Lebanon in to a civil war.
The Palestinian people their worst enemy, are the Palestinian people.
Only 1 country in that region has all 3 Abrahemic religions living within their borders, how come? Please explain how the Zionists did that?
Technically, terrorism is conducted by non-state actors against civilians.
If a state does it, it is either a crime against humanity or a war crime.
“Technically” there is no internationally accepted definition of terrorism.
It’s basically the first thing everyone learns when they study the subject.
As others already pointed out, there isn’t really a unified agreed upon definition of terrorism, but the vast majority those definitions overlap, with small differences between them here and there.
The probably most important part of those definitions is that the implementation of terror against your opponents has political motivations. War crimes in general on the other hand mostly don’t follow this same philosophy. The only modern day example that theoretically checks both boxes at once is stuff like the Russian terror bombing of civilians (the war crime part), thinking they’ll eventually bomb them into total submission and Russia will achieve their political goals (the terrorism part).
What’s that second image? This being a meme I suppose it is either Palestine or Iran - in both cases I’d argue it isn’t terrorism. It sure is equally horrifying at least, but not every (mass)-killing is terrorism. It, if my assumption is right, both is killing of civilians. Or by legal definition, non-combatants. Targeting non-combatants is illegal according to international law. Not that any of these perpetrators care, but not holding them accountable is the real terror imo.
It’s Gaza, but it could have just as easily been Assad’s Syria.
War makes a lot of places look like this, especially if the warring parties don’t care about civilians. Unfortunately that’s not limited to Iran and Gaza, or Syria.
I think it’s Gaza.
It’s Gaza.
If you don’t think destroying all the hospitals, water infrastructure, schools, and nearly every building in what is effectively a concentration camp is terrorism… You had better be calling it a genocide
Yeah i do consider what is happening in Gaza a genocide. My pont is that there is a definition connected to words like genocide and terrorism, and in that sense the images are not displaying the same thing. Sure, they are both horrible; but if the bottom image is Gaza than that is not terrorism, just like the attack on 9/11 wasn’t conventional warfare. I get that the meme is going for ‘when they do it, it’s horrible; when we do it, it’s fine’, and OP is right; both are horrible and both caused a lot of suffering. Those responsible need to be held accountable.
that is such a nonsensical argument
It makes perfect sense.
Palestinian terrorists initially claimed responsibilty for the attack. Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank were celebrating the 9/11 attack en masse.
It is a perfect argument to use the 9/11 memory to defend the Palestinian cause.
Terrorism is done by NGOs. When it’s a governmental actor it’s warcrimes.
Fun Fact: Every act of genocide ever commited in human history has been done exclusively by conservatives.
Conservatives are truly, deeply evil. Disown them.
Settler colonialism is genocidal by nature, guesssseug and what the Israeli liberal did genocidal acts
Many, many Israelis are conservatives. How do you not know that? Wait. You do know that. You’re just being dishonest for some reason.
Also, the opposite of conservative is progressive, not liberal. For example, neo-liberals like Chuck Schumer and Ronald Reagan are not progressive. They are conservative. The More You Know…
Olmert is liberal, Barack is liberal, Rabin, was liberal none support a totally independent Palestinian state. As much as I hate Conservatives they are not the only supporter of Genocide. Let’s not talk about the liberal West who, supporter Israel with weapons
Everyone you just mentioned is NOT progressive. You are only strengthening my position.
Modern “liberals” like Hakeem Jeffries or Gavin Newsom will pretend to be progressive by loudly supporting a few progressive policies while leaning right on everything else. It’s almost like they are conservatives in sheep’s clothing. And “centrists” (dishonest conservatives) point at these fake progressives and say “See?! That person is the opposite of a conservative!” That’s the deception you are trying to use here. Progressives are not fooled by that.
It sounds like you either don’t know what progressivism is, or you are pathological in your need to lie about it. Whatever the case is, you walk and talk the same as a conservative for some strange reason.
They are all from centrists liberals parties . It is a lazy answer to pretend some people are not what they are because it disapprove your argument .
Is Carney also a fake liberal for you? He also said he support a zionists palestine and he lied about ending arms sale to Israel so they continue the genocide
Again, you strengthen my position. Carney is NOT a progressive. And what is a “fake liberal”? Wtf are you on about?
You are just tossing word salad at a wall at this point. Trying to be as confusing as possible is also a conservative (AKA “centrist”) debate strategy that does not fool progressives.
Carney is a liberal and support a colonial genocidal, power called Israel
That’s right. The Soviets for example, are very well known today for spearheading the revolution against that evil far-left Russian Empire thing and we’re extremely lucky they ultimately won. Who knows what could’ve happened to all those small non-Russian minorities in furure decades, if Lenins’ movement didn’t step in!
(do we do the /s thing here too? lol)
And NO, I’m not a conservative, before someone starts screeching. I’m a centrist trying to appreciate the good parts from both of the extremes, while spitting on the bad. That is my ideology. So here I’m just trying to bring back a bit of that grey almost everyone apparently has completely forgotten existed, making the mainstream discourse almost exclusively black and white.
“I’m a centrist…”
So you admit you are a conservative. No one in today’s political landscape calls themselves a centrist unless they are slightly right of Hitler. Progressives are not fooled by that word.
Don’t be a twat. I very highly doubt you don’t hold some conservative views.
There is a difference between views and actions. So much horrible shit was done in the name of religion xyz. Does that make the religion inherently bad, or the people who did bad things in the name of it? Views and what is done because of those views are not one in the same.
For example. You could be upset about illegal migration. That is largely a conservative talking point. How you solve that could be evil like genocide, or something like making the immigration process actually possible in less than a decade.
So much horrible shit was done in the name of religion xyz. Does that make the religion inherently bad
That’s one reason, yes.
Ah, I see you are one of those smooth brained pricks who sees any form of religion as evil, even though it has also saved many people. To be clear, I’m an atheist, but that doesn’t mean my beliefs are inherently healthier than someone living for a cause greater than themselves.
I see you are one of those smooth brained pricks
Is such incivility really necessary?
Did you miss the part where you called everyone who is not left leaning, nearly as bad as a warmongering genocidal dictator? Which one of us was uncivil first?
Edit: ah, I was thinking you were the person I originally responded to. Still strange for you to support that person though.
Lol, stupid liberal thinks he made a valid point
Please explain to me (in detail, ideally), which part wasn’t valid. Do you seriously think we’re gonna move anywhere, ever, if we don’t drop the never ending black and white narratives?
(or are you referring to OP of the comment, I’m in my bed with a pretty serious concussion, so if that’s the case, my bad)
Stalin and Mao where conservatives?
You mean because of the 5 billion deaths they caused, if we sum up all people that died in that time?
Compared to Netanyahu, Stalin and Mao were angels.
I think he meant the between 40 to 80 million that died because of the mao regime. https://factsanddetails.com/china/cat2/sub6/item1081.html
And the 1.7 million deaths by gulag alone under Stalin
https://factually.co/fact-checks/history/stalin-soviet-union-death-toll-estimates-1920s-1953-ddd053
Stalin was literally fascist conservative though, like he got into power by pushing for The Old Ways and murdering all his competitors
I am just saying that it’s ridiculous to add deaths by famine to their death tolls. We’re not doing that for any other leader, and it’s nothing but anti communist propaganda, otherwise we’d be doing it for people like american presidents too.
Also the website you’re linking is not very objective, the Wikipedia article about Mao gives a way more balanced picture.
Who caused 5 billion deaths? You sure mean million?
I am jokingly exaggerating the number to show how ridiculous it is to count deaths by famine that was not intentionally caused by Mao to his death toll.
Damn, killed over half the current population of the world eh?
How many people did Mao intentionally kill? If you want to count all deaths by famine, you’d end up with crazy numbers in teh US too, specially if you’d add deaths by lack of medical insurancw or other avoidable deaths. But do we say "President X killed Y people (sum of above)?
I desperately need to know who your plug is, so I accidentally don’t end up on the same thing you’re clearly on. Seriously man, wtf
Yes.
