Destroying Israeli universities wouldn’t actually advance Iran’s cause but could well lose them some of the small amount of international support they’re enjoying. I’m not saying they should be any more scrupulous than anyone else, or than they’re currently being, but they should, and presumably would prefer to, concentrate their efforts on targets that could actually impact their enemy’s ability to harm them.

That’s… You’re literally describing capitalism though. Capitalism is defined by a capitalist ruling class which means that government can be expected to use its power in the interests of that class… Such as by bailing out corporations.

Russia is fully thirty-five fucking years into its life as a neoliberal hellhole.

The constitution explicitly, openly vests power exclusively in wealthy and/or slave holding men. Are you seriously claiming that wasn’t “intentional”?! Your founding fathers overwhelmingly WERE wealthy slave owning white men, they “extracted” those concessions FROM THEMSELVES.

weird how his neck just did that

I’d also point out that countries like Australia don’t have a constitution at all and they’ve lasted longer than that.

Are you… Feeling okay? Did it even occur to you to maybe google this bonkers claim?! Now personally I don’t feel like this neoliberal, white supremacist, settler-colonial project which was founded on a continuing genocide is much of a model for anything regardless of how long it’s lasted, but it does in fact have a fucking constitution!

What’s really depressing and frustrating about all this is that at no point will this experience ever tempt you even for a second to consider you could be wrong about other things, too. 55+ years on this earth and you haven’t bothered to learn the critical thinking skills of an eight year old.

I don’t know a single soldier who served in Afghanistan or Iraq that feels we served any noble purpose by being there

I’m sure this is a great comfort to the people of Afghanistan and Iraq

pottery.

Totally reasonable, cheers.

See, this is an actually good argument I can agree with, but the argument this person was making was explicitly “saying Zionism is Jewish supremacist equates Zionism with Judaism”, and that just… Seems like nonsense.

But isr*el oppresses Jews of color, and encourages apartheid South Africa converts to come.

So? America is a white supremacist project that oppresses plenty of white people and even explicitly props up some non-white people who serve the empire. This really doesn’t say anything about whether Zionism is Jewish supremacist. But that’s not even what the argument is about!

If one of the goals of the Zionist project is equating zionism and Judaism, isn’t it important to highlight the differences?

It’s important to tear down that idea because it’s antisemitic, not just because Zionists are doing it, but yes.

The problem is that no one was actually doing that, because saying “Zionism is Jewish supremacist” doesn’t appear to equate Judaism and Zionism. That’s what people are objecting to and what you haven’t provided even a shred of explanation for. A “Jewish supremacist” doesn’t even have to be Jewish, they only need to believe in the Jewish supremacist project of building a Jewish ethnostate. People have rightly pointed out that most Zionists are not Jewish, which means in turn that most Jewish supremacists are not Jewish. “Jewish supremacy” is a belief ABOUT Jews, not a part of Judaism. So it’s very hard to see how saying “Zionism is Jewish supremacist” could possibly be equating Zionism and Judaism, when the majority of the people the phrase refers to literally are not Jewish.

I doubt you will find even one person on either of our instances that doesn’t agree that equating Zionism and Judaism is antisemitic, because it very much is, and obviously so. There’s no point continuing to argue that in this discussion because literally everyone agrees with you.

Quoting myself elsewhere (more recent than your reply, just saving myself typing up another response):

If you’re going to point out that Zionism also rejects Jews, that argument isn’t nothing, but it’s also one you could make against white supremacy, which is quite happy determining who’s “white enough” to benefit. Manifest destiny is obviously white supremacist but there were plenty of majority white groups - even groups that were majority white under their own definitions - that they victimised, like GSMs, disabled people, etc. I see the Zionist rejection of, for example, holocaust survivors and Ethiopian Jews in a similar light - they’re not Jewish “enough”, they, for whatever reason, are not beneficial to the Zionist project and are rejected for that reason, which is common for fascist ideologies. They still ultimately sought a white ethnostate - just as Zionism seeks a Jewish ethnostate.

this is not the first response to you pointing this out. You’ve received some very in-depth responses with a lot of thought put into them but are refusing to engage with those well thought out responses. If I am wrong on this I would prefer to know, which is why I’m continuing to post. But you aren’t actually providing any reasoning!

In what way does saying “Zionism is Jewish supremacist” equate Judaism and Zionism? It doesn’t even claim to fully describe Zionism, let alone Judaism!

America is white supremacist, I hope everyone here can agree on that. Does saying that equate shite (keeping that typo) supremacy with being white? No, because whiteness is a whole identity, there are many things that go into making someone white or not white. Yes, their skin colour, but there’s also a whole cultural identity there. Judaism is a whole religion + ethnicity. Saying that one group of Jewish people (Zionists) think that people of that identity should enjoy political power in Israel on the basis of that identity (Jewish supremacy), even if it’s untrue, doesn’t imply in any way that I can see that holding that belief is a part of Judaism.

So I will repeat, all this is in service of one question: how does saying “Zionism is Jewish supremacist” equate Zionism and Judaism, given that “Jewish supremacist” is a belief about Jewish people and not actually a part of Judaism?

Genuinely curious about the objection. Israel is an ethnostate, Zionism is the school of political thought supporting Israel’s existence as an ethnostate. How does “Jewish supremacist” not describe that? Are you comfortable with describing the system in Israel as apartheid? Because they are actually carrying out Israel’s policy of “grand apartheid” (as opposed to the “petty apartheid” of internal segregation - not my terms!) If you’re comfortable with that, was apartheid as carried out by South Africa not white supremacist? And given that Israel is carrying out the same policies to benefit a Jewish populace, how is that not Jewish supremacist? You could of course make the argument that Zionism is white supremacist, but it’s explicitly carried out to benefit Jewish people. That’s the final deciding line and the specific attribute Zionism is concerned with.

If you’re going to point out that Zionism also rejects Jews, that argument isn’t nothing, but it’s also one you could make against white supremacy, which is quite happy determining who’s “white enough” to benefit. Nazism is obviously white supremacist but there were plenty of majority white groups - even groups that were majority white under Nazi definitions - that they victimised, like GSMs, disabled people, etc. I see the Zionist rejection of, for example, holocaust survivors and Ethiopian Jews in a similar light - they’re not Jewish “enough”, they, for whatever reason, are not beneficial to the Zionist project and are rejected for that reason, which is common for fascist ideologies. They still ultimately sought a white ethnostate - just as Zionism seeks a Jewish ethnostate.

So, honestly, what’s the objection?

But it really isn’t the same. “Jewish supremacism” is a specific idea - that Jewish people should hold power in Israel, which really is the guiding ideology of Zionism.

For context, they’re arguing elsewhere that saying “Zionism is Jewish supremacist” equates Judaism with Zionism, and I hope it’s obvious that that’s a wild take.

Edit: also, do liberal Zionists not support the maintenance of an ethnostate? Because that’s Jewish supremacy, even if they don’t think of themselves that way.

I also felt like taking Israel back after such a long time and driving out the inhabitants is difficult to defend.

Yikes. It’s not just “difficult to defend”, it’s indefensible. Israel was founded by the brutal expulsion of hundreds of thousands of people from their homes. That alone is enough to make the foundation of the modern state of Israel an act of evil and a crime against humanity. The erasure of Palestinian history, though, is also disgusting. Palestinians are not Arabs. Just like the Romans didn’t displace the people of Britain in the classical period and the Normans didn’t displace them in the mediaeval, the arab conquest of Palestine didn’t displace the previous inhabitants. Modern Palestinians are largely descended from ancient Palestinians (and therefore Jews) who converted during/after the conquest.

Now that absolutely does not matter. The fact is that Palestinians were living in the region and had a right to their homes that was breached during the creation of Israel - whether their ancestors had been there for 200 or 2000 years doesn’t matter. They were the legitimate inhabitants and were unlawfully ejected, that’s what matters. But painting them as a separate population who somehow “replaced” the “real” inhabitants is not cool. The idea that anyone but Israel are at fault when the entire nation was founded in an enormous act of ethnic cleansing is just revolting. Even if Arabs had in fact “ejected” the original inhabitants during the conquest it still wouldn’t be acceptable to eject their inhabitants from their homeland of the last ~1400 years, but that isn’t even true and modern Palestinians literally are the descendants of ancient /classical era Jews.

Israel wasn’t “taken back”. It wasn’t “recreated”. Zionists have no connection to the land they have stolen and the modern state of Israel has absolutely no continuity with any ancient states. In fact the only people who can meaningfully claim to be the inheritors of the ancient state of Israel are the Palestinians who were ejected by <drumroll> a bunch of white people with German, other central European, and american accents in the late 1940s. Just the idea of “enforcing” a contract which literally just said “you give us all the best land in your country, and in return we get all the best land in your country” (the partition plan, which Britain had absolutely no moral right to force on anyone in the first place) is mask off, unapologetic, Hitlerian Nazi rhetoric, and it’s not more acceptable just because the beneficiaries are Jewish.

God Denazification was a pathetic failure. Just look at you talking about how Palestinians are partially responsible for the genocide and ethnic cleansing being visited upon them… Because they didn’t agree to be ethnically cleansed “peacefully”. Just truly, honestly sickening and evil.

Sure, but Germans are usually fully on board with literally anything Israel does. Denazification was a pathetic failure and Germans, as a group, mostly think that the problem with the holocaust is that the victims were Jewish. If even the German public is turning against Israel they’re probably running out of time.

Do you hear yourself? A detention facility. So… A prison, or a gaol, or what could be ANYTHING. So not, in any way, evidence of a concentration camp. Well done.

The picture only proves literally that those people posed in front of a camera in that way. It’s probably legit and not staged, though! That’s fair.

But we still don’t know anything about it. Was it taken in china? Japan? America? Vatican city? Who knows!

Is the individual in the picture a peaceful Uyghur who is going to be killed and their organs harvested? Are they a murderer or other violent criminal? Are they a han man who was taking bribes? A Japanese woman who poisoned her husband? A refugee who fled to America and is now being deported for Failure To Be White? Again, we don’t know!

How about the facility - is it a concentration camp in china? Is it an American prison or ICE detention centre? Maybe a Filipino gaol? Guantanamo bay? Who could say!

You can’t - you apparently got this from Adrian Zenz, a far right ghoul who says woman shouldn’t have the vote and that he was sent by god to destroy china - not someone particularly trustworthy.

You may take his claims seriously but it’s ridiculous to suggest other people should. You keep claiming you’ve shown evidence but what it amounts to is… Nothing. Nothing that can be proven to have any veracity, nothing that comes from a trustworthy source.

Finally there’s something incredibly racist in the claim that there’s a huge campaign of systematic violence against Uyghurs in Xinjiang, yet there are no refugee camps in neighbouring countries with large Uyghur populations and no outbreaks of violence. You seem to think that, for some reason, the Uyghur people are just… Taking it. They are neither fighting back nor fleeing. I also love how somehow the Muslim nations who sent in inspectors are just… Lying. Nope, can’t possibly listen to the brown people. Not when there’s a bunch of good ol’ boys telling you The Truth!

I mean, look at this. You have a completely anonymous photo that could be of anyone, anywhere, doing anything… And that’s more convincing evidence than the complete lack of any kind of organised resistance to a supposed genocide that, if it were happening, would make Gaza look like a schoolyard scuffle. Come. On.