Isn’t this evidence that the UK is a ridiculous police state rather than evidence that Russia isn’t a dictatorship?

One thing that I learned here is that imperialism has a much stricter definition than what we’re used to in general parlance among liberal places you might have discussed before. This too threw me, I think sometimes people get bogged down on correcting the definition and not the meaning behind it though.

From the outside it looks like russian apologia, but I think it’s about keeping the meaning of the words and not diluting them until they’re meaningless.

People will say that Russia is not imperialist, because by the definition used here, it’s not. And to a layman that sounds like they’re saying Russia didn’t invade Ukraine. Of course, they did. It’s just by the definition used, the invasion wasn’t imperialism.

I think Putin, maybe Russia in general, genuinely considers that land as belonging to Russia. I disagree personally. They invaded and made excuses for it but ultimately, he thinks it belongs to Russia. It’s aggression, it’s invasion, but not necessarily imperialism because it’s not about robbing the place blind but about claiming a land and people that he thinks belongs to Russia.

Meanwhile the US wants to make sure Ukraine doesn’t side with Russia, because the US wants to plunder the natural resources of Ukraine for their own profit. That’s imperialism.

Unfortunately quite often when you say Russia is imperialist the response will be “no they’re not” but doesn’t explain why they’re still bad even if it’s not imperialism. They’re still a bourgeois capitalist state and despite what they might say their interests are not in the working class’ interests.

Also for what it’s worth, if the US, and NATO, and all it’s influence disappeared overnight, being a bourgeois capitalist state Russia would almost certainly try to fill that imperialist void. It just hasn’t got the money or power to do so with NATO active. I guess you could say the war is imperialist Vs wishes they were imperialist.

A civil discussion can’t happen when one side holds uncivilised views.

The other one I really like was right after Kirk’s assassination, when people were joking and laughing. I saw one MAGAt post “So much for the tolerant left.”

I never said I tolerate you.

I know it’s not exactly what you’re asking for, but I do want to say - to anyone new, like I am, I understand it’s a little disconcerting stepping out of the bubble you’ve been in, I am in that process myself.

For my entire life, I’ve been educated and informed inside a NATO nation. You have to acknowledge that in such a scenario, you are victim to propaganda whether you know it or not.

Stepping out of that bubble naturally means learning about a lot of things you probably wish weren’t true. The truth is often hard to swallow after all.

This doesn’t mean Russia gets a free pass. Acknowledging the flaws of NATO doesn’t mean Russia has never committed a crime. I still don’t like the Russian government, that’s not a controversial statement. I think nearly everyone here would say the same thing.

What matters most of all in this conflict is the wellbeing and safety of the people suffering in Donbas and other parts of Ukraine. They deserve better than this.

If you read all the links everyone has shared, and come out of it feeling confused and angry, then you’re probably on the right path. Reality is a mess.

I also found this really helpful, thank you. I think many people struggle with accepting that we are subject to Western propaganda, and that we’re not smarter than the average russian citizen just because we’re outside of Russia. Acknowledging this is not the same as agreeing with Russia.

I don’t like the Russian government. I don’t like the British or American government either.

I didn’t know about Syria, but it doesn’t surprise me. It’s not the first time the US or UK armed al Qaeda!

In fact there are a lot of similarities between the US and UK arming the Afghan Mujahedeen and these Ukrainian paramilitary groups. After the Ukraine war is over, I wonder what these armed and trained Nazis will do…

I have it on good authority that this would start a new atom based religion.

Sorry to nitpick, but nobody jaywalks in London because jaywalking is not a thing in the UK. Even at a designated crossing it’s not illegal for a pedestrian to cross when it’s red, just dumb if there’s traffic.

I’m afraid that changing leadership won’t change Labour. As a party, it does not speak to or for the working class, it is ruled by career politicians just the same as the Tories are. They could never understand what it means to be working class because most of them were never part of it, and the ones that were have betrayed the working class (cough Rayner cough).

Exactly this. Recognising the Palestinian state means nothing if the UK government don’t change their relationship with Israel.

Hey everyone, I’m also new so thank you for having me!

There’s a crazy amount of learning when you accept that capitalism doesn’t hold the answers. It’s overwhelming at times, but we must remember that we deserve better and keep going.

You’re absolutely right. There’s a lot I don’t know, your response and the others have given me a lot to read about. Thank you!

Thank you! I had no idea about the Azov movement or its brigade. The links to Naziism are undeniable, I don’t know why this isn’t a bigger deal to the West. I tried seeing if Starmer had ever commented on Azov, but I can’t find anything.

To be honest that really threw me, I don’t know how the Ukraine government can defend not only allowing Nazi groups to exist, but to actually bring them into the military? I think I understand where people come from now - it reminds me of the old saying about “if four people are sat at a table and a Nazi joins them, there are five Nazis at the table”. If the Ukrainian government oppose Naziism, and any decent person should, then they need to take a hard stance on these groups instead of allying with them.

I’m going to need more time to think and read, but I appreciate your response. The issue certainly isn’t a simple one.