Stalin'sSpoonHolder

There are a couple of Venezuelan guasanos at my work celebrating María Corina Machado. I’m pretty sure this guy was approached by the FBI

How does the saying going? Every westerner has a little Hitler inside them?

I had a similar moment but with Alpharad.

His newest Among Us vod was after his charity stream where someone donated 8000 dollars. Spending that amount of money got them a spot in their next Among Us game (the newest VOD). During the game, Alpharad made a comment to let the guy talk, who spent 8000 to be there.

The absurdity of spending that amount of money and what it got them made my stomach turn. Even if it’s for charity, having that kind of disposable income just willy nilly feels so wrong while there’s so much income inequality.

In each of the examples you have presented it is likely in the short to medium term (at least) they feel that their capitalist society of choice provides them materially greater benefit than the alternatives.

I think you’re right. Joining the US Navy despite “knowing the atrocities of the nation” is definitely a priority of his material interest. But I think it’s because he’s fallen for the idea that a capitalist society can have the interest of the working class in mind, because of the existence of FDR and the Nordic models of capitalism. However, I do not know if he is aware of the Nordic models getting their public sector privatized, with right winged politicians started to fill their parliament .

As westerners, or those who seek to become one, we in general benefit from the exploitation with the global south; we are on the wrong side of imperialism (from a global south perspective) and it is through this power dynamic we seek narratives that give license for our bigotries as westerners.

I do see that there is a material benefit for the average citizen in the imperial core to not thwart or question the MIC or western imperialism. I do know that some of the most vocal supporters of Nazi Germany were the petite bourgeois. I think I can see my BiL being aware that he materially benefits from western imperialism with the US government giving him disability for getting part of his toe blown off… Being active in trying to dismantle the system, or maybe even just questioning the system, could be seen as a direct negative to his material interests. Before knowing where my beliefs were, my wife had told him how I was becoming active in the political organizations. He said he was proud of me. And I can’t shake how much of a disappointment he is.

What we consider the modern west - child labour laws, pension, universal health care, materity leave, sick pay, womens rights, universal education etc all came following the October revolution that created the USSR.

I’ve told my BiL that without the USSR’s existence, women would not have gotten as many rights as they did in the US. His only response was just “no.” Western education always focuses on the deaths of a communist society, but never the advances in progressive ideals. Conversely, they don’t emphasize the deaths caused by western imperialism. That 100 mil death by communism lie can always be countered with 145 mil dead by British imperialism with colonizing India. But thinking that way continues to reinforce how western education emphasizes knowing history like bullet points, instead of knowing and explaining why, who, how. Once people start questioning why, they tend to move away from thinking capitalist ideology… unless they have no empathy **or ** they have a material interest.

A faction of the capital class in the west saw the accelerated development and accepted that they would need to invest in “human capital” to catch up - the most famous example is FDR’s New Deal. And started reversing these concessions with the fall of the USSR.

I think he just hasn’t gotten to the line of thinking that concessions can always be removed. Or he does know and just falls into the Great Men theory or class collaboration is possible.

They are not stupid. They intelligently seek narratives that gives them license to justify their bigotry. It is very difficult to convince them (though maybe not impossible) because you will need to give them an alternative where they will benefit within the short to medium time greater than what the current system offers them.

People can, and material benefit is absolutely one of them as to why they don’t. Some people just don’t think to try. I didn’t. Before my political descent from liberalism, I did have a conversation with my BiL that I couldn’t understand why there were people who were mourning Stalin’s death. I know there was more to the conversation, but all I can remember is him going on about how the famine of 1950s was due to communist thinking that plants can grow better collectively. I started shedding my liberalism when I came across r/ShitLiberalsSay. They emphasize and paint liberal talking points and thinking in a light I hadn’t thought to consider. It made me question what I knew and I sought out Liberalism by Losurdo.

Marxism is neither workerism nor populism. And I suspect while western communists try and fail to build mass movements based on scientific socialism the Global South will force the West’s material conditions as they increase the leverage, especially given the events of the past 2 years.

Wouldn’t this be a good argument as to Russia having an even higher chance of going back to socialism with the Russia - Ukraine war? Outside of the people who lived during the times of the USSR remembering their lives as much better before the restoration of capitalism, the reach of Russian imperialism is not as vast as western imperialism. Overthrowing capitalism should be easier in comparison to the other capitalist countries.

On a side note, am I wrong in thinking Russian imperialism is a thing? Russian capitalists have a material interest in removing the western backed politicians from Ukraine, not just for their safety from Nato, but also because the Maiden Revolution removed the Russian sympathetic / backed politicians and markets being sold to western capitalists.

Stop accusing the masses of being “brainwashed.” Stop treating them as cattle, stop attempting to rouse them into action by scolding them with exposure to “unpleasant truths.”

Accept instead that they have been avoiding those truths for a reason. You were able to break through the propaganda barrier, and so could they if they really wanted to. Many of these people see you as the fool, and in many cases not without reason.

Understanding people as intelligent beings, craft a political strategy that convincingly makes the case for why they and their lot are very likely to benefit from joining your political project. Not in some utopian infinite timescale, but soon.

These are all helpful for me in reevaluating my understanding of the workings of class society. I’ve been falling behind on my Marx and Engles reading

I’ll admit, I have a good job in the imperial core: software engineer. I engineer a website that helps companies estimate the parts needed for a construction job. Saying that out loud does make me question whether I fall in the labor aristocracy as the job isn’t blatantly benefiting the imperial core… Am I wrong where I stand in the class society? I do not own any capital, and I do not plan to own anything that can help me make money off of someone else’s labor.

I think I’m coming to the realization that I haven’t shed my liberalism fully. This line of thinking is starting to reek of idealism, and I think I understand incorrectly how early communists got to where they were logically. It is a material benefit for the proletariat to overthrow the bourgeois and take back the means of production. It is a material benefit to rid your country of western imperialists and help other countries do the same. I think outside of these reasonings, I sometimes have a hard time being convinced of the logical conclusions from those that had a beneficial job in Tsarist / Capitalist society such as Lenin and Castro being a lawyer in a bourgeois society.

Thank you for this conversation.

I agree with the line of thinking. She is a very nice person; her ideal world is practically a communist society - no wars, peoples needs being met, everyone getting along regarding race, cultures, sexuality. But she breaks down as she believes her world is a dream and it can’t be a reality. She’s locked into Great Man theory and Liberal doomerism; believing that you just need the right people in the positions of power to get things changed such as AOC or Sanders. She does watch some political channels, most of them rad lib, but one of them [Humanist Report] has been good about showing both US political parties are working together to stop Zohan Mamdani. That same youtuber admitted to AOC deserving the bashing she was getting for being against the amendment to remove funding to Israel. She’s well aware how shitty Obama was to the rest of the world, but she falls for the curated image of 99% Hitler.

She’s so close… but

She proclaimed that politics is “fun now” after watching an episode of Stephen Colbert where Nancy Pelosi was one of the guests. She knows full well how Schumer and Pelosi are terrible people. I was so disgusted, I asked how can she believe these people. That was when she blamed me for “ruining things she enjoys.”

She didn’t want to give up her Starbucks until they started deteriorating their progressive image. Despite knowing full well how anti union they are. But when she was sad, I’d always buy her her favorite drink there.

Same goes for Amazon - until Bezos came out in support of Trump, we [I’m also not innocent here] bought from Amazon almost every week. Despite knowing their brutal working conditions…

When my wife and I first started dating, I was liberal. I was still eating Chik Fil A despite knowing that the ceo donates to gay conversion camps. I changed because I realized how right she was about how shitty it was to continue to give money to that company. Yet, years pass, and she’s said how she believes it is the consumers freedom to spend their money how they want, even if she disagrees. She’s Bi. I question if I hadn’t changed and refused to change, she would have still been with me; I don’t know how I feel about that. But then, I have to be introspective about why I’m still here.

People can change, but they have to want to change. They have to want to question what is presented in front of them.

My wife, no. I heard on here that he was a Zionist, but hadn’t found much. Hadn’t heard anything about his support for Ukraine, but that’s not surprising. If I told my wife this, she’ll most likely ask why I must ruin the things she likes. I showed her brother the video of the lead singer of Radiohead blasting a pro-Palestinian protesting at one of their concerts. Not a peep from him - Radiohead is his all time favorite band.

Thank you for these sources.

And mass “brainwashing” ain’t a thing; it’s very hard to convince someone to go against their material interests

This is something I’ve been trying to tackle with, and I may just not be educated enough to get away from this line of thinking.

Are there not working class and immigrants who vote against their material interest: those that will remove their social benefits or those that will deport them for not being white? The line of thinking they tend to go through is that they aren’t the ones causing the problems of their society. Like citizens of Nazi Germany believing the reason for their country going down the drain was because of those of the Jewish faith. How about US president Lyndon B Johnson saying the quiet part out loud of the poorest white man will empty his pocket if you convince him he’s better than the poorest black man.

I think your emphasis on convince may help as the fact that Engels logically came to his conclusions about the defects of capitalism and where class society will go. Have there been more capitalists that have come to the same conclusions? I think I saw a headline about a CEO that has stated socialism is the only way for society not to fall, but I don’t remember who that was.

I’m rewatching Fallout with my wife, and there was a an implication that communists are merely cultists. One of the main characters of the show out rights says that then gets told “no you” with capitalists about to cause the nuclear annihilation because it’s in their material interest. This does convince the main character to go to a communist meeting, but there it is revealed where they know the main villain of the season from. During that reveal, there are people in a vault shown to be worshiping the villain in cultish behavior: participating in an orgy, drinking blood, chanting, and wiping the ashes of their enemies on their face; a flag is unraveled, with a design that is obviously trying to paint a “cult of personality”. This is all deliberate from the directing shots and writing. I guess I have to ask what was the logical process in the minds of the writers.

It is in the best interest of capitalists to paint history with a negative outlook on collectivism. It is in the best interest of the proletariat to question that retelling of history, but a lot don’t and just accept the version they are given. I know this example is just anecdotal, but my brother in law is a history major, poli sci minor that joined the navy to “see the world and get an affordable college education.” He took Soviet history courses from someone who has stated they are from the times of the USSR [could have been a child during the fall, I haven’t asked]. He’s read the diary of Che Guevarra - got dirty looks from his teacher for suggesting that as his reading. He’s working class with a retail job, is “fully aware of the atrocities of his country”, and yet, he’s not communist. He saw my copy of Liberalism - A Counter-History, asked what it was about, could see that Liberalism is the ideology of genocide, racism, slavery, and sexism. One of the times I’ve talked to him about Soviet history, I prodded with questions to see how much and what he retained, and he wanted to emphasis what a “monster” Stalin was - having killed “millions” of people. One time my wife and I got into a heated political argument, and I learned he’s talked about me negatively to her when she yelled “David is right, you’re nothing but a Stalin worshipping tankie.” I’ve shown him my collection of books, with one of the first being Losurdo’s book on Stalin. I told him that capitalist historians have a material interest to paint specifically Stalin as an inhumane monster and he bounced back with Yezhov’s execution and the erasure of him from that photograph. This was before my deeper dive into the history, but I told him that could have been a falsification as I don’t know how people were able to do that in the 1930s, and showed him Furr’s book on Yezhov. He showed no interest in reading anything I had, but has offered his books: one of his poli sci books that explain how the media is the 4th wing of the government, and one on how the US help shaped a shadow government in Japan after WWII. I wouldn’t be surprised of the reason why he smokes weed all the time is to help him block out the horrors of this capitalist ruled world.

My wife loves to watch a popular physician on YouTube, Dr. Mike. He recently came out with a video that was more of a retelling on how each of the “dictators” of history died. Surprisingly it does make mention of some capitalists like Christopher Columbus, but that’s not the egregious part. It definitely tried to paint communism as worse than fascism. With no mention of Hitlers kill count, but went of his way to declare Stalin’s as “6 million to 60 million.” This physician is from Russia, and, of course, moved to the US when he was very young. He’s a private practiced physician, so I can see how it is literally in his best interest to paint it this way. But, my wife, and other liberal watchers, won’t question what he’s rehashed as it confirms what they learned, or they just trust this popular celebrity doctor.

Apologies this is so long and for springing this on you. The idea of brainwashing has started to feel like Liberal projection, and I haven’t had an outlet on my thoughts. I’ll recollect my thoughts after reading the article you posted.

I got a coworker to start reading Blackshirts and Reds! He’s found it very eye opening, but very sad how nothing has changed.

My wife and I got into a huge fight over politics. In the fight I learned that she talks about me with her older brother who is a USA Navy vet with a liberal degree in History and Political science by her screaming at me that “my brother is right, you’re just a fucking Stalin worshipping tankie.” Says I’m ignoring history in that “he killed millions.”

I deserved being screamed at. I made a jab at her not doing anything to help the political situation because she refuses to go out with me to DSA or CPUSA, but she just started doing the “red card” thing that she learned from radlibs like this blond white woman who’s a lawyer (I can’t remember the name). Which is not enough and wont work for very long (her brother and I agree on that), but she has massive clinical depression right now, and she needs to find something to make her feel useful.

This is the fourth time we’ve fought over politics. She doesn’t like to talk about politics with me because I always steer it to democrats being fuckers, which “is a very MAGA thing to do.” Then she’ll blame me and “do nothing” Jill Stein voters for making Trump happen. I shit on dems so much to show how complicit they are, but she’s “already aware they are terrible people (except Sanders and AOC) but at least they are trying.”

I am the one who continues to push for us to talk about it, because we are both alone in our reading. It’s something that we need to talk about. She would be an excellent communist as her literal ideal world is communism, but she won’t detach from the liberal safehaven. I’ve said somethings that I believe have made her think for a second. It looked like she was listening when I talked about why I want to get into armed training, but doesn’t understand why I have to be the one. I feel as if she heard me when I said “I don’t want to be violent, I’m a scrawny ass teacher. There were people in the past revolutions who didn’t want to either, but your freedom is not given, it’s fought for.”

She wants to read Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism by Kristen Ghodsee after I’m done with that. I think it would help a bit, but I sometimes feel like I’m reading a radlibs take on the ussr and Stalin, which I think would make my wife double down. Some other comrades have said the author is a communist but advocates for eurocommunism, iirc.

I’m just venting. I don’t really know what I’m gonna do at this point. She doesn’t want me to leave, I don’t want to leave her, so it’s a matter of coming to an agreement and setting boundaries for political talk. I don’t feel like we’re comrades. It’s mostly my fault. I assume that she isn’t aware of how evil dems are, and so I get condescending. I’m not being a good husband and listening to her worries. I’m glad I have therapy soon…

Is there any other tv show or movie that goes into revolutionary mindset like Andor?