• @[email protected]
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    6 months ago

    For reference, in Belgium state mandated health care (RSZ) is about 40% of your income (1).

    There is copay on things like glasses, hospitalization costs, … With additional (optional) insurance for those.

    I feel like there’s a lot of misinformation spread around EU health insurance.

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      06 months ago

      Readers added the following context:

      Untrue.

      It’s 13%.

      It covers both heath care and social care (old people’s homes and help for elderly or disabled).

      • @[email protected]
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        6 months ago

        You’re referring to

        The employee’s share of social security taxes is 13.07% of the total gross compensation, with no cap.

        From source (1), I assume.

        It’s true that the other 27% is taken from your wages by your employer, before it reaches you. But what’s the difference? Is it not still your take home pay that gets reduced by 40% for the purposes of health insurance?

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          06 months ago

          Tell me you don’t understand taxation without telling me you don’t understand taxation.

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              06 months ago

              If Johnny has 100 apples and the Belgian government gives 13 of them to some folk in hospital or care homes and Johnny doesn’t ever spend a penny on health care, how many apples does he have, and what does it matter to Johnny if his employer who has tens of thousands of apples has to give some of them to the folks in hospital instead of to the shareholders?

              If Jimmy has 150 apples and the US government takes 20 of them and he gives 50 of them to his health insurer to pay down debt and then has to remortgage his house to pay for his Mum’s cancer treatment, how much better off do you think Jimmy really is?

              “The United States has the world’s highest per capita health care costs—about double those of other wealthy nations”

              • @[email protected]
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                06 months ago

                Let’s do Johhny’s accounting in the first example:

                Johnny works for a month and made 100 apples (Dt.), and 40 apples debt (Cr.) to RSZ.

                His employer takes 27 and gives it to RSZ. Johnny receives 73 apples. His ledger reads 73 Dt, 13 Cr.

                Johny then has to give 13 apples to RSZ. Johnny now has 60 apples (Dt.), and has no more debt (0Cr.) to RSZ.

                Johnny cares because of his 100 apples worth of work, he gets to keep 60.

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                  06 months ago

                  Lol.

                  Johnny made 400 apples for the company, who gave him 100, the government took 13 and he got 87. The government also took 27 of the 250 apples (left after rent, heating, lighting cleaning and maintenance costs) that the company had wanted to keep for the executive pay and shareholders. They complained bitterly about how expensive it was and lied to Johnny that they would definitely have given him all of those 27 apples, honestly, definitely, if only the nasty government hadn’t stolen them for a bunch of very undeserving sick people and elderly people who were just making Johnny poorer.

                  Last year, when Johnny made 30 more apples than usual, he got a one apple bonus, the chief executive got a 10 apple bonus and the shareholders got the other 19.

                  • @[email protected]
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                    6 months ago

                    If that’s the case for you, it might be good for you to change jobs or become self-employed? That way you’re free from what you perceive as evil corp?

    • @[email protected]
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      06 months ago

      Maybe I’m blind, but I don’t see any mention of healthcare costs on the source you gave.

      Per the OECD website, per capita healthcare spending in the US is the worst amongst the entire OECD, and Belgium is comparable to France and Sweden. Not the best, but far from the worst (and not accounting for better healthcare outcomes).

      I don’t have sources on hand, but the US in general rates the worst for healthcare outcomes too.

      • @[email protected]
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        06 months ago

        that’s because they cite incorrect data.

        “social security” is not health care fund; and 40% is employer and employee combined (employee only is ~ 13%) contribution. social security is pensions, survivor benefits, unemployment, sickness and maternity leave, etc.

        employee share of contribution to public health insurance fund is (iirc) only 3.55%

        • @[email protected]
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          06 months ago

          employee share of contribution to public health insurance fund

          If your employer takes part of your wages and pays, or you take part of your wages and pay. What’s the difference?

          The “employee share” vs “employer share” makes no difference?

          • @[email protected]
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            06 months ago

            Even if you were making the point you think you’re making… The US already has employer-contributions to health care, and its a whole lot. My experience likely isn’t the norm as I’m in a union position, but my employer foots the bill for something like ~70% of my health insurance. They take a chunk out of my paycheck, but it’s still only maybe 1/3 of what it actually costs.

            So if you want it to be a fair comparison, you’re going to have to take that into consideration too. If you’re suggesting that an employer in an EU nation will pay someone less because they have to shell out to contribute to their health insurance, then you need to realize that the same conditions are present here.

            It’s not really fair to only include that on one side of the equation, when it is happening on both sides.

            • @[email protected]
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              6 months ago

              That’s a fair point I did not consider. Thank you.

              I’m mainly confused about the “5% of your paycheck” claim made here.

              It’s way, way higher in places that do have universal healthcare, all things considered.

              People unfamiliar with the system seem to often have unrealistic expectations, exacerbated by political propaganda.