Please understand that this is not me bashing Sweden at all, I am just a bit surprised that compensation packages aren’t that great in Sweden and I would like to understand how compensation packages in other countries are seen at. I worked in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany and due to my work I know what the packages look like in France, Ireland, Spain and Italy (our headquarters is located in Belgium).
I am from the Netherlands and companies offer additional benefits such as:
- Company cars (very cheap, you pay 100-500 euro per month and it includes private gas/electricity, private parking and all other costs associated with owning cars as well). I know this is limited by Swedish law (you even have to pay for switching the tyres even though this is mandatory…) For example, I drove a Tesla Model S for 180 euro per month and had 0 private costs for this, even when driving the car through Europe.
- By law it is possible to work part-time. A lot of people work 32-36 hours per week. Several governmental organisations even have 36 hours as the maximum hours per week. In Sweden just 40 hours seems the norm.
- 4-12 vacation weeks. Let’s say you have 24 days off per year and you start working in August, you can already take 2 days off in September without any debt as supposed to how it’s working in Sweden (what is up with the strange vacation days thing where you earn them between April and March???).
- Good budgets for education purposes, especialy people with a ‘higher education job’ have between 2500 and 5000 euro per year. I know multiple people who did a masters while working, getting paid time off to study
- Much more team building activities, ski trips and free food (again, this is limited by the Swedish government). When I was living in the Netherlands, I was invited to company and supplier/customer dinners almost every month, and I didn’t have to pay tax for it as it is in Sweden (my former colleagues are laughing when I tell them I need to pay tax on food when I am working late…)
- A 13th or even 14th month of salary
- Getting 100% of your salary when you are sick for a few days. If you are sick for a longer period (for instance a burnout), you get 70-80% but in most cases you get 100% of your salary, meaning there is not obstacle to calling sick
How is this seen in Sweden? I know a lot of people really like unions, but they want to achieve what already is the standard in some other countries in Europe. Is this one of the reasons why it is hard to find higher educated staff (something a lot of entrepeneurs within my network have issues with)? They just get much more salary in other countries and simply move over there.
I really like the working atmosphere here in Sweden, but when it comes to total compensation packages, it is very, very low, especially compared with the costs of living in Sweden. I have a good base salary, but without the additional benefits, at the end of the year I have less more to spend and save, even though my salary is 25% higher than when I moved here from the Netherlands.
Again, I don’t want to insult anything or anybody and I understand there are big differences, but when comparing the average salaries and compensations in Sweden to aruond 7 other European countries, it feels like Sweden stayed in the 90’s and all other countries innovated.
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The original was posted on /r/sweden by /u/ObservationalWizard at 2023-08-07 10:29:13+00:00.
evoloonie at 2023-08-07 12:56:07+00:00 ID:
jv5hsx4
I have basically allof these benefits, so it varies i’d say
Separate_Debt at 2023-08-07 12:04:58+00:00 ID:
jv5d356
Get a kid, that’s how you get the real benefits. Family > Material benefits, for Swedish workers.
But you might prefer a beer or a ski-trip over spending quality time with your family? You seem to be at that stage in life 💁🏼♂️
Snusandfags at 2023-08-07 11:06:00+00:00 ID:
jv5bmh3
It’s odd that us Swedes think we are rich
Lasrod at 2023-08-07 11:34:05+00:00 ID:
jv5d7nb
Average salary for IT jobs is 70k SEK I’ve heard
scifi887 at 2023-08-07 12:08:31+00:00 ID:
jv5g9g1
I get all of those things already in Sweden except for the second bullet point and the last one, I guess it depends on where you work?
yelo777 at 2023-08-07 12:20:10+00:00 ID:
jv5gnj7
Sweden is poorer than most Swedes think. We have a lot of billionaires per capita, which skews the averages.
manInTheWoods at 2023-08-07 17:24:58+00:00 ID:
jv9qxks
OP does nothing than complain about Sweden in /r/tillsverige.
storman_sten at 2023-08-07 10:34:39+00:00 ID:
jv55st9
Yeah we are heavily taxed. It is very expensive to hire new people for companies. On that, there’s a High Income tax. Sweden is nice for the poorest people and the richest .
myrmonden at 2023-08-07 12:43:02+00:00 ID:
jv5ij9w
what? that would make it not nice for the richest people.
AndreDaGiant at 2023-08-07 14:28:26+00:00 ID:
jv5we9t
The tax burden is mostly carried by the middle class in Sweden, not the richest.
(The actually rich do not get their money from salary, but from other sources of income - capital gains etc)
storman_sten at 2023-08-07 14:29:44+00:00 ID:
jv5wl37
Typ att wallenbergarna betalar mindre skatt än vad en medelsvensson gör
Berzerka at 2023-08-07 20:53:01+00:00 ID:
jv7ljwn
Sweden has very low capital taxes, and that’s what matters to the rich. Extremely few rich people are rich because of salaries, you might be confusing them with the upper middle class.
Real-Raxo at 2023-08-07 13:05:59+00:00 ID:
jv5l9zh
Ja det är väl därför rika väljer att basera sina företag på Irland 😳
Thegrolle at 2023-08-07 11:39:55+00:00 ID:
jv5bqfv
Sweden has way better benefits for families than most other countries. Daycare is only about 130 euros/month in Malmö and you also have VAB and more parental leave days. The caveat is that this does not affect you if you don’t have kids…
Swayze1985 at 2023-08-07 11:54:25+00:00 ID:
jv5d7p0
Daycare is actually 1% of your salary (or that’s what I was told when I put my kid in kindergarten). It’s free if you are unemployed and you get to have the kid 15h a week there.
SolarPoweredKeyboard at 2023-08-07 12:16:39+00:00 ID:
jv5fksj
It’s based on the household income somehow, but 1% doesn’t sound correct. We (as a family) pay 1650 kr per month in Gothenburg.
Thegrolle at 2023-08-07 14:34:41+00:00 ID:
jv5xb2d
It caps out rather quickly. Don’t you also get a discount if you have more kids?
phimpxy2 at 2023-08-07 12:11:38+00:00 ID:
jv5f1cb
Daycare is capped, we pay the maximum and i think its somewhere around 1700sek/month for one child
Sparetimeg at 2023-08-07 10:44:42+00:00 ID:
jv56mw2
bruh sweden rules. we work alot, get modestly paid and we are the front face of social justice, hightech production and fintech development and we are in the top 1% of cultural export per capita (ie fashion music)
we dont fk around w oil as the dutch
somabokforlag at 2023-08-07 11:41:41+00:00 ID:
jv5bwsh
Yeah, I have friends that live in the Netherlands and its practically the stone age when it comes to gender equality. Resembles the republican party in the US.
Snusandfags at 2023-08-07 11:57:08+00:00 ID:
jv5dhsk
Lol jämställdhet betalar inte hyran
somabokforlag at 2023-08-07 13:03:07+00:00 ID:
jv5kxad
Sambeskattning gynnar sådana som är gifta och kvinnan är hemmafru så ifall det passar in på en är Nederländerna verkligen att föredra.
Neijo at 2023-08-07 13:08:39+00:00 ID:
jv5llzl
Bad take enligt flera: men sverige har gått bak i sin utveckling också. Nu jobbar båda och har det lika fattigt som när bara en arbetade, och nu skriker båda på varandra om disken, och vill man ta det lugnt efter 9 timmar av jobbiga kollegor och klienter så ska man laga mat och leka med ungen också. Mat behöver fortfarande lagas och barnen behöver relationer med sina föräldrar. Jag träffade knappt pappa som liten, men jag undrar om mina barn kommer ha någon relation med sina föräldrar, när båda jobbar hela tiden. När mamma var arbetslös och vi hade mer tid med henne var hon så stressad över ekonomin att jag och mina syskon typ gömde oss för henne
”Vi har smartphones och sånt kul ju” bara det att jag läser ändå bara på mobilen, vill inte använda den om jag ska spendera kvalitetstid, och jag får inte ha den på jobbet.
imaquark at 2023-08-07 11:00:54+00:00 ID:
jv581wt
Yeah some things are super weird. Specifically the 40h week which by the way doesn’t include lunch! So the normal work day is 9-6 not 9-5. Super odd for a country that prides itself in work-life balance.
Karensdag is also a draconian thing. It incentives people to go to work even though they’re sick. Great way to spread diseases.
But to answer your question in a summary, Skatteverket is probably the most efficient tax agency in the world lol. They WILL get their taxes and they leave nothing behind. Anything at all that is considered a benefit to an employee is taxed, all the things you listed. Because of this, companies are less inclined to offer them.
SIIP00 at 2023-08-07 12:49:43+00:00 ID:
jv5jbmu
Normal work day is 8-17. Many work 8-16:30. And many also work 7-15:30. 9-18 is not normal at all.
123FantaochRose at 2023-08-07 13:53:29+00:00 ID:
jv5rfoc
9-18 or 10-19 is the most common working hours in retail. So you are wrong. 8-16:30 is only because it accounts for 30 min lunch and not 1 hour lunch that would make it 8-17.
SIIP00 at 2023-08-07 14:46:43+00:00 ID:
jv5z2wi
I’m not wrong. Most people don’t work in retail. How can you claim that something is the most common and tell me that I’m incorrect when those times are pretty much only applicable to retail sectors.
And yes, obviously 8-16:30 is because of 30 minutes lunch instead of hour. Taking a 30 minute lunch is pretty normal.
You’re the one that’s incorrect thinking that 9-18 and 10-19 are the “most common working hours” when they aren’t applicable to many sectors of work. They may be common in retail, but not the most common and not the normal time that is applicable to most sectors of work at all.
123FantaochRose at 2023-08-07 15:03:31+00:00 ID:
jv61m7k
You said it is not normal. When it is the most common hours in retail I would say it is very common and not something unusual at all. Retail covers a very large percentage of workers indicating that it is very much normal working hours.
SIIP00 at 2023-08-07 15:12:36+00:00 ID:
jv62zg2
My issue was that you said that it was “the most common”.
I underestimated how normal it may be. But you’re vastly overestimating how normal it is.
No-Concert4588 at 2023-08-07 12:49:52+00:00 ID:
jv5jc9n
This depends entirely on what type of work you do. Sounds like OP is in a higher white collar sector and there I have never had 40 hours work week and no one is keeping track of your hours so lunch is included in the working hours if you get your tasks done. In my view there is only focus on what you deliver and never on how many hours you put in.
mechanical_fan at 2023-08-07 13:11:20+00:00 ID:
jv5ly14
I really wonder where OP works for that, as I never heard of any office imposing the proper 40 hours. I am in academia atm, but talking to friends in the private sector and I would say they seem to be working something closer to 35 hours/week, maybe even less. In academia it is something like 30 hours/week. The exception would be maybe people working in healthcare, but those have weird hours all over the world.
Alemlelmle at 2023-08-07 21:20:19+00:00 ID:
jv7py3w
I’m a software developer, we have to do to timesheets. Other employees have to clock in/out at the office
Chadsub at 2023-08-07 13:23:24+00:00 ID:
jv5ngst
as I never heard of any office imposing the proper 40 hours
I’m an engineer. We do our 40 hours on the clock.
mechanical_fan at 2023-08-07 13:28:53+00:00 ID:
jv5o66h
Damn, are you an engineer inside a factory or something similar? So you have to log when you go in/out? Or even in “offices” that can happen?
Chadsub at 2023-08-07 13:30:16+00:00 ID:
jv5ock7
Yes I clock in and out and I work in the office
Recol at 2023-08-07 13:48:36+00:00 ID:
jv5qrbr
Government? Only place I’ve heard that does that.
Chadsub at 2023-08-07 13:49:35+00:00 ID:
jv5qw32
Im not even sure what kind of position a mechanical engineer (konstruktör) could get in government?
TG-Sucks at 2023-08-07 14:02:10+00:00 ID:
jv5sngz
I visit a lot of different companies in my line of work, and it’s surprising how many have them. Everyone has to punch in, from the fork lift driver in the warehouse to the high income executive in the office.
Obligatorium1 at 2023-08-07 14:20:56+00:00 ID:
jv5vb7j
Since you said you work in academia, you probably have colleagues that clock in and out: the support staff.
123FantaochRose at 2023-08-07 13:51:52+00:00 ID:
jv5r7dx
I work as an accountant, have to clock my hours too… It’s standard
mechanical_fan at 2023-08-07 14:08:29+00:00 ID:
jv5tjix
I am concluding that my social circle is weird in that regard. That sucks. The law needs to change then to reduce the weekly working hours, anyway.
thousandmilesofmud at 2023-08-07 14:18:26+00:00 ID:
jv5uy4a
well yes. (Im an engineer myself) but we have arbetstidsförkortning, (worktime-shorteining) of 0,5-2 hours a week, where you basically save up those hours every week and can use them to get more days off or go home earlier. So the average working week is less than 40.
Obligatorium1 at 2023-08-07 14:16:49+00:00 ID:
jv5ups6
In academia it is something like 30 hours/week.
I also work in academia, and I don’t think this is accurate. From the collective bargaining agreement:
Årsarbetstid
3 §
Den totala årsarbetstiden för lärare är
1 700 timmar för arbetstagare med 35 semesterdagar.
1 732 timmar för arbetstagare med 31 semesterdagar.
1 756 timmar för arbetstagare med 28 semesterdagar.
Those hours are in, I dare say nearly all cases in the sector, handled in practice by annually being divided among various tasks by your director of studies or equivalent.
The directors rarely check how much time a certain task actually takes, but rather distribute the time based on rough estimates, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen an academic environment where people haven’t compulsively kept count of how many hours they get for each task and when they’ve spent them. Any given task you want someone to do will invariably be met with the counter-question of “how many hours do I get for that?”.
The result of this system is that some people work like 20 hours per week because they’re good at what they do and hence don’t need all their alotted time, or because they lack the ambition to do more than the bare minimum. At the same time, there are people who work pretty much every waking hour of every day (including weekends) because they’re slower workers than the estimates allow for, or because they’re perfectionists who don’t know when something is “good enough”.
paecmaker at 2023-08-07 14:30:25+00:00 ID:
jv5woqx
cries in lowly factory worker
Cahootie at 2023-08-07 17:51:19+00:00 ID:
jv6s7rl
Consultant here, every hour has to be accounted for (although you can always squeeze in some bullshit hours for internal billing).
fiddz0r at 2023-08-07 14:18:51+00:00 ID:
jv5v0f5
I work as a system developer and I clock my hours. 40 hours per week +/- flex
No-Concert4588 at 2023-08-07 13:27:55+00:00 ID:
jv5o1l1
Even if people work their hours it is because the have a sense of duty and not because they are forced to do it. Anyone can take a half day off for private errands etc if it doesn’t cause any major disturbances.
Anfros at 2023-08-07 13:40:24+00:00 ID:
jv5pnwi
Standard working hours are 8-17 or 8-16.30 depending on if you have 30 min or 1 hour lunch, at least for office workers.
thisisboron at 2023-08-07 11:08:23+00:00 ID:
jv58qdz
A normal work day would be 8-5 (or 8-4:30 if you take 1/2 hour lunch, which is common). During lunch you don’t work, so why would it be counted as working hours?
monsterkuk1 at 2023-08-07 11:31:33+00:00 ID:
jv5awoo
It’s de facto time that is removed from you by your employer - why should it not be paid?
mtnlol at 2023-08-07 11:38:22+00:00 ID:
jv5bl00
It only is if you’re not allowed to leave during lunch. For 95% of jobs you’re free to do whatever you want during that your, so how is it removed from you?
monsterkuk1 at 2023-08-07 11:42:49+00:00 ID:
jv5c0vz
Because you are forced to stay in close vicinity of work so can’t do anything meaningful. At best you are able to do what is effectively team-building with your coworkers
eolisk at 2023-08-07 12:18:57+00:00 ID:
jv5ftqu
Are you able to teleport or what are you talking about? American style freedom is not real freedom.
AshiSunblade at 2023-08-07 13:46:44+00:00 ID:
jv5qiak
I feel so vindicated seeing this exchange. The fact that there really is no time to do anything of your own in the lunch break hour, making it essentially just feel like work (or at least work-adjacent), was something that struck me from my very first real workday but it felt like no one ever thought about it.
Even if it’s not time spent physically doing the day’s work tasks, it still ends up taking away an hour I could have otherwise spent at home.
ChillitBillit at 2023-08-07 11:13:41+00:00 ID:
jv597ub
Depends, at my job I don’t really have the opportunity to have lunch other than at my workplace. More often than not my lunch is spent talking about work related stuff which seems like bullshit.
imaquark at 2023-08-07 11:12:32+00:00 ID:
jv59403
It is in many other countries because you don’t really stop working during lunch. Like lunch with colleagues, in the workplace, or simply continuing to work on your mind while having lunch. People don’t really have a “switch off” work button unless it’s for manual labour or service workers. Anyway, I didn’t say it was wrong or illogical, just that it’s the odd one out compared to most other places.
thousandmilesofmud at 2023-08-07 14:22:12+00:00 ID:
jv5vhs7
Im an engineer, i let go of work totally during lunch. i just talk to my colleagues. So i dont feel that im working at all during lunch. I would love to get paid lunchbreak, but i understand that im not doing anything of value. And if i was at home i would have to eat lunch anyways, so i dont feel robbed of the lunch time.
mr_loose_cannon at 2023-08-07 13:05:59+00:00 ID:
jv5la0r
Taxing motorvärmare is a the most draconian thing. Being able to start your engines after a work day in -30C is apperently a benifit.
Tells you everything really
Ravekommissionen at 2023-08-07 15:15:16+00:00 ID:
jv63e6b
Being able to start your engines after a work day in -30C is apperently a benifit.
Well of course it is. If you park in town instead of at work, you’re gonna have to pay a premium for that. At work your employ met provides that as a benefit.
All discussion about benefits being taxed are just propaganda from Svenskt Näringsliv. Your employer can anytime they want compensate you for that extra tax so you never notice it.
LovelyCushiondHeader at 2023-08-07 13:40:24+00:00 ID:
jv7nl13
Karensdag is also a draconian thing. It incentives people to go to work even though they’re sick.
Depends how you look at it - I’d say it encourages people to take more days off than they need to, so they feel like they got their money’s worth.
Been sick for 1 day? Might as well take a 2nd or 3rd day too and get paid for it.
NaginiRed at 2023-08-07 11:21:38+00:00 ID:
jv59ymu
On the other hand, not having karensdag incentivizes staying home when you’re not sick which is common even with karensdag. Very convenient to be able to extend the weekend or sleep in once in a while without any deduction on your salary. And it is more or less impossible to fire an employee due to bad work ethic in Sweden.
MKeatonBatman at 2023-08-07 11:50:50+00:00 ID:
jv5cu8b
If there wasn’t a karensdag, I would be able to just be sick from work for one day if required. With the karensdag, I always stay at home for multiple days to “compensate” for not getting any pay at all during the first day, even if I’m well enough to go to work on the second day already.
imaquark at 2023-08-07 11:29:26+00:00 ID:
jv5ap9v
It doesn’t incentivise that. It’s indeed a possibility but saying that it’s an incentive is too much. Also, sometimes you wanna err on the side that is beneficial to society and the employee, not just doing what is better for the employer. Besides, I’d be interested in some kind of comparative study about this because with more sick people that you get due to karensdag, there’s also less people working which is bad for the employer. It’d be interesting to see that vs the occasional hungover person that doesn’t show up on one Monday.
eolisk at 2023-08-07 12:21:29+00:00 ID:
jv5g40z
No other Nordic countries have a karensavdrag and their economies doesn’t seem to have collapsed yet. Very curious 🤔
Kuuppa at 2023-08-07 12:33:28+00:00 ID:
jv5hfw6
The Finnish government wants to implement it, lauding the “Swedish model”
helm at 2023-08-07 11:42:17+00:00 ID:
jv5byzl
The heavy industry had a big problem with alcoholics extending the weekend to Mondays.
s-maerken at 2023-08-07 11:39:50+00:00 ID:
jv5bq3f
Found the employer
Heuristics at 2023-08-07 11:24:06+00:00 ID:
jv5a72m
If you quit working at 6 you wont be able to pick up your children at the kindergarten.
bergakungen at 2023-08-07 14:19:25+00:00 ID:
jv5v3cn
Most people in Sweden work 0700-1600 or 0800-1700. Those or the standard office hours.
Anfros at 2023-08-07 13:42:02+00:00 ID:
jv5pvsr
In Sweden there is daycare that covers evenings and nights for parents that work those hours, but most people get off work at 17 or earlier.
gobrek at 2023-08-07 11:44:44+00:00 ID:
jv5c7q0
Hate the “40h work week” soo much. I feel like having breaks benefits both the employer and the employees, but the employee pays for all of it.
charismactivist at 2023-08-07 12:35:49+00:00 ID:
jv5hp9n
Fun fact: most people who advocated for the 40h work week in the early 1900s envisioned that people would work 30, 20 or even just 10 hours per week in the future as technology progressed and automated tasks.
Instead we got mass consumption and climate change as automation caused massive waste of resources without reducing work hours.
AshiSunblade at 2023-08-07 13:42:56+00:00 ID:
jv5q01r
Capitalism, as a system, isn’t able to consider an ‘enough’ point or even moderating its growth.
I saw someone call it the ideology of a cancer cell, and that makes terrifying sense to me. We’ll consume ourselves to death, sacrificing ourselves on the altar of quarterly profit reports.
Lazy_Sitiens at 2023-08-07 13:07:46+00:00 ID:
jv5li39
Just these last days I’ve reflected so much on how increased efficiency is never used to improve working conditions, only to increase output and flood the market. Whether farming, localization or any other kind of production work, the output is several times that of what it used to be, yet we’re still not seeing any societal improvements. Only cheaper goods (as in the farmer gets paid less for their grain, the translator is paid less per word).
The dairy farm I used to work for a couple of years ago could sustain a comfortable lifestyle for an entire family with the money made from a dozen milk cows before the 80s. Now they need to upgrade to 80 cows to even have a chance at breaking even.
Scandiblockhead at 2023-08-07 10:44:47+00:00 ID:
jv56n34
Are all/most companies offering those kinds of compensations or just the top ones in the other countries? I think in Sweden it’s more common to have kind of the same compensation all over the place, from low level to top level jobs, for example vacation being earned through April-march and regulated in a law. It makes most employment benefits equally good (or equally bad). Of course there are benefits that are only available at “better” jobs and often private.
HashMapsData2Value at 2023-08-07 13:49:16+00:00 ID:
jv5la44
What I’m curious about is if other countries also have semestertillägg.
Scandiblockhead at 2023-08-07 13:11:42+00:00 ID:
jv5lzs6
Yeah! And as I’m currently pregnant the parental benefits are interesting as well. It’s horrible to hear about other countries were parents have to leave their child very early on or quit their jobs to care for them :(
takeitchillish at 2023-08-07 14:41:49+00:00 ID:
jv5ycm2
I think it is a bit horrible in Sweden where people put their children from 1 years old for long hours in kindergartens. Some childen cannot even walk when they start kindergarten in sweden, that is fucked up. A child should be home to at least 2 years of age.
Jolly-Dentist2836 at 2023-08-07 16:41:49+00:00 ID:
jv6h182
That is only in very competitive countries that fare well. Romania has 2 years of paid parental leave. Hungary invests heavily in making babies. And that’s just the poor cousins on Europe. Sweden’s parental leave will be left the same because a lot of immigrants give the country a ton of children to occupy the low wage jobs. I mean a ton by western standards. Natality in Sweden is superior to any developed country and even many of the underdeveloped ones.
AndreDaGiant at 2023-08-07 14:05:03+00:00 ID:
jv5t217
I know they have it in Belgium. Think they have it in Germany also.
Aromatic-Zebra-8270 at 2023-08-07 16:33:17+00:00 ID:
jv6fnuk
Denmark and UK (both personal experience) for sure most EU countries have either paid vacation or option of payment in lieu of non-taken days
336691 at 2023-08-07 14:14:01+00:00 ID:
jv5ubg4
The semestertillägg is so minuscule that it almost feels useless to take into consideration when comparing across countries (which will have multiple minor positive/negative quirks affecting the compensation package). In practice it corresponds to what, a 1% yearly salary increase? A company’s policy on how gap days are treated probably even have a larger impact than the measly semestertillägg, let alone actual salary differences
PsychonautChronicles at 2023-08-07 16:00:28+00:00 ID:
jv6ahej
The most interesting part is that the unions, employers and legislators all seem to agree that people in general are too stupid to save up for their vacations themselves so you need to withhold a small part of their salary for them not to go broke during the holidays.
Ok_Excuse_30 at 2023-08-07 17:39:48+00:00 ID:
jv6qcl8
Well, that’s because they are too stupid.
ravyalle at 2023-08-07 12:19:50+00:00 ID:
jv5fx87
As someone from germany i can say that you only get these cool benefits if youre one of the top people. My entire family pays 40-45% taxes and gets nothing extra except the occasional “Christmas money”. Sick days get paid 100% BUT you gotta sit in the doctors office the whole day because you need a sick paper from day 1. People in germany usually do have around 30 vacation days but if your company is ass you might end up with only 20 since thats the minimum by law. I think in total sweden has better pay for the average worker because you have lower tax and it seems a bit more chill. Can only speak for germany though
Crashed_teapot at 2023-08-07 16:51:57+00:00 ID:
jv6ink6
What if you have a stomachflu? That’s typically not something one would need to visit a doctor for, but you still need to be home and rest and wait it out, and not spread it to other people.
Sn_rk at 2023-08-07 13:02:18+00:00 ID:
jv5ktnl
As someone from germany i can say that you only get these cool benefits if youre one of the top people. My entire family pays 40-45% taxes and gets nothing extra except the occasional “Christmas money”.
40-45%? Even assuming tax class I and adding social security and healthcare as “taxes” you barely reach that on a monthly gross income of 5k€, which would already firmly put you in the lower part of the highest income quarter, aka. solid upper middle class. At that range you should have negotiated better benefits a long time ago, considering how it’s pretty common to get vacation money and company cars at much lower income ranges.
Sick days get paid 100% BUT you gotta sit in the doctors office the whole day because you need a sick paper from day 1.
Only if your contract explicitly says so, otherwise it’s from day 3.
I think in total sweden has better pay for the average worker because you have lower tax and it seems a bit more chill. Can only speak for germany though
I’ve lived and paid taxes in Sweden, if you add healthcare costs like you likely did for Germany you pay more or equal, not less. To use the 5k€ or 50k SEK from above as an example: You’d pay 30-40% in taxes alone (depends on where you live), and you will also have to pay for health insurance, which in addition to the monthly fees includes out-of-pocket costs for every visit to a doctor (with specialist visits costing up to 50€ per visit) and prescription medicine.
AvkommaN at 2023-08-07 13:26:49+00:00 ID:
jv5nwih
Who pays for health insurance in Sweden?
SIIP00 at 2023-08-07 12:45:43+00:00 ID:
jv5iuhv
It’s nuts that you’ve to go to the doctors to get some sort off sick pay.
Akilee at 2023-08-07 12:56:00+00:00 ID:
jv5k2ka
Unless it’s changed, since covid when I quit my job, then you don’t, unless it’s under special circumstances.
This might vary between workplaces, but for me I could call in sick up to a week before I needed a doctor’s note. And if I were to call in sick very frequently, then they’d require a doctor’s note.
If you needed special sick benefits, or longer time sick-leave, then you’d probably need a doctor’s note as well.
FuriousRageSE at 2023-08-07 14:52:59+00:00 ID:
jv6010o
And in america, i have seen a sign “if you’re well enough to get a doctors note, you are well enough to work”
SIIP00 at 2023-08-07 15:26:41+00:00 ID:
jv65658
The US sucks.
ravyalle at 2023-08-07 12:47:14+00:00 ID:
jv5j0yy
Yeah thats why it sometimes takes forever to get checked. Waiting room is full of people that just sit there with a cough or something
yxhuvud at 2023-08-07 12:59:54+00:00 ID:
jv5kja2
I’ve never had a job where I’ve had to do that for a few days. I’ve had people ask me to get a doctors statement when being away for like 2 weeks or more
Felicia_Svilling at 2023-08-07 13:28:01+00:00 ID:
jv5o23x
That is the law…
Alkanen at 2023-08-08 08:05:58+00:00 ID:
jv9uqk4
But you didn’t work in Germany, where ravyalle said that’s how it works, right?
Bastuhingst at 2023-08-07 14:12:31+00:00 ID:
jv5u3ux
That has never happened to me. You need to get a “doctors” note if you’re sick for more than 2 weeks.
Fair_Sprinkles_6001 at 2023-08-07 21:36:49+00:00 ID:
jv7sjdo
It is legal for companies to demand this, but not all of them do. I work in Germany and only need a doctors note if I am sick for four days in a row or when on vacation. But if I kept calling in sick every other day, they could start always asking for one.
helm at 2023-08-07 11:38:32+00:00 ID:
jv5blmr
Higher tier employees can absolutely get a range of benefits. Extra health insurance, vacation, etc, etc. Working hours are negotiable.
Scandiblockhead at 2023-08-07 13:08:00+00:00 ID:
jv5lj22
Yeah I have those benefits myself at a private employer in Sweden so I don’t really agree with op’s statement but I do think the general benefits of like how you earn vacation is more equal in Sweden than in those other countries maybe.
Apeshaft at 2023-08-07 13:06:00+00:00 ID:
jv7ek86
If you’re employeed by the Swedish government it can be a pretty sweet deal as you grow older. I worked as an IT-technican at a Swedish university when I was younger and was surprised to find out that you get more and more paid vacations day the older you get. You get the normal four weeks of paid vacation days if you are 29 years or younger. By the time you turn 40 you have seven weeks of paid vacation days per year.
I enjoyed that job. On the other hand, working as a tech guy for my municipality was a living nightmare of idiots everywhere failing upwards to become the boss of you.
Athosphere at 2023-08-07 10:43:34+00:00 ID:
jv56jhn
I agree, high educated jobs in for instance IT is not that good in Sweden. You can make a good living if you got your own consultancy company, or if you make it up in the career ladder (high base salary). But compensation is a bit hard.
Basically everything is taxed. Cars, benefits. It’s like the government has a zero-tolerance for any benefits that might be unfair. If you gain something compared to another “normal” person, pay tax for it.
With that said, two benefits I think might be real, are child/parenting (lots of days of work, although I guess salary takes a decent hit), and the low stress level. You can work pretty lazily in Sweden I’d say. Doesn’t stop people from burning themselves out of course, but I think it’s very hard to get fired for bad performance, especially compared to places like the US.
I’d summarize it with: If you prioritize money, work elsewhere (e.g. US). If you prioritize life, family, security etc., Sweden is decent.
ToWelie89 at 2023-08-07 14:33:37+00:00 ID:
jv5x5hi
Basically everything is taxed. Cars, benefits. It’s like the government has a zero-tolerance for any benefits that might be unfair. If you gain something compared to another “normal” person, pay tax for it.
The system is setup to not reward hard work, lazy people are more rewarded. It’s “Jantelagen”; don’t think you deserve anything more than anyone else, you’re not special, you don’t deserve good things just because you are hard working and competent. It’s very hard to become rich in Sweden, everything is against you.
HashMapsData2Value at 2023-08-07 13:15:51+00:00 ID:
jv5mihk
But in this case OP is comparing with similar European countries, not the US.
LenAhl at 2023-08-07 12:36:15+00:00 ID:
jv5hr3e
It’s very reasonable to have benefits taxed, otherwise we’d just have lower salaries and be given gold bars, housing and food instead… The obvious otherwise used tax planning scheme is to have your own company and pay dividends from that instead
Athosphere at 2023-08-07 13:10:11+00:00 ID:
jv5lsw5
Well the problem with higher education jobs is that salary increases doesn’t do much due to the high taxes. Which is why companies desperately are looking on benefits to attract employees, but these get taxed heavily as well.
If you want salary instead of benefits you just negotiate that so I don’t really see that as a potential issue.
LenAhl at 2023-08-07 13:34:49+00:00 ID:
jv5oxn1
Yeah, but my point is that non monetary benefits need to be taxed as well. Otherwise I completely agree with you, tax on the margin becomes very high for a large portion of workers… If you won’t miss famy or friends much, I’d absolutely recommend young people with high demand skills or similar to work abroad some before settling down ( if it improves their economic situation)
AndreDaGiant at 2023-08-07 14:19:41+00:00 ID:
jv5v4ps
The obvious otherwise used tax planning scheme is to have your own company and pay dividends from that instead
In Sweden, if you own your own consultancy or whatever, it’s usually best to pay salary to yourself first, and only pay dividends to yourself if you need/want to take out more money.
iirc dividends and salary are taxed almost equally, but paying salary for yourself will give you pension money, while dividends won’t.
The largest gains come from being able to buy a lot of stuff tax free “for company use”.
hankwinner at 2023-08-07 21:46:45+00:00 ID:
jv7u2oj
The main advantage is being able to accumulate capital in your company. Put it in long-term investments within a tax free placement form. Then use the company to surplant your earnings way past your active work life.
The low tax (20%) dividends are based off your salary and are effectively taxed at about 37% (if based off taxable income in your company, income*0,794×0,8).
An example: As a consultant working and billing say 1900 hours a year at 1000 sek an hour… You can take a salary of say 60 000 sek a month. It’s gonna cost you 946 TSEK. You’ll have about as much left. Say you have costs of 154 TSEK for a good pension contribution and some benefits. You then have a profit before tax of 800 KSEK.
You pay 20,6% CIT. Leaves you with 635 TSEK. You can take a dividend of 360 TSEK yearly taxed at 20%. To get the same net income you would need to have a monthly salary of 108 000 SEK.
Additionally you’ll have 275 000 taxed income per year accumulate in your company. Save that and invest it yearly over 20-30 years and you can retire comfortably.
108 000 per month + a good amount of savings in the company for a person who can charge just 1000 sek an hour… that’s quite good I think. I guess it all depends on your relative burn rate though.
Buying some office supplies is pointless in comparison.
Additional-Sport-910 at 2023-08-07 22:12:39+00:00 ID:
jv7y1p8
Pretty sure best practices is taking out salary until you cap the limit on pension payments and takiing the rest as dividends.
hallonlakrits at 2023-08-07 11:02:52+00:00 ID:
jv5888g
I know the Netherlands have compulsory health insurance at something like 100 € a month, I don’t know how they do with savings for retirement, here the employer pay about 40% more than your salary to cover taxes and tjänstepension.
Besides the legal minimum of five weeks vacation with 20% semesterersättning some employers have six or even seven weeks. I often use unpaid vacation.
I do have a budget for education which I most often spend on some books, but I’ve gone to long trips abroad for conferences from such budgets.
The friskvårdsbidrag is kind of small but maybe not too be forgotten. I’m one of these swedes that you can’t easily become friends with, I really don’t like work activities. Usually it’s the same old semi-alcoholics that enjoy them.
You can have company cars but benefits are taxed like income and that Tesla at 180€ is probably 1000€ so you’d be taxed for that hidden salary.
Working less hours is not strange here. You even have legal support to have it if you have kids are under eight. Is it really a benefit to have less paid hours though?
Cellzor at 2023-08-07 11:23:16+00:00 ID:
jv5a480
Their 32-36 hours are paid as 100% in Sweden. So the point being them working less for the same wage.
somabokforlag at 2023-08-07 11:38:05+00:00 ID:
jv5bjzx
Vilken dröm alltså, jobba 32h/v och ha 12v semester per år och få lön för 14 månader!
Zeyron at 2023-08-07 11:51:27+00:00 ID:
jv5cwif
Vart får du 20% semesterersättning?
ondulation at 2023-08-07 16:48:52+00:00 ID:
jv6rwq5
I think you may be comparing apples and oranges. And possibly doing some cherry-picking.
Living costs are considerably higher in the Netherlands. That alone would require almost 30% higher pay to break even.
You may be used to discussing the salary with friends, and then adding the extras you get but that’s not how it’s calculated for statistics. In general, all compensation for your work is included in statistics. Whatever you get in salary plus bonuses, extras, benefits, membership cards etc is included in the big national surveys. The national statistical bureaus in EU have harmonized things to make their data more comparable.
Some things differ between SE and NL societies, kindergarten and healthcare (especially teeth) are financed in different ways from what I’ve heard. So it is not super easy to do a direct comparison. If you’re a DINC, NL may be beneficial but with three young kids SE may be better.
Possibly, you are part of an high-income group in NL and as Sweden has a flatter salary structure your colleagues in NL may very well earn more than you do. But overall, the differences are not as big as people tend to argue. They usually only compare their own examples and not the overall mean/median/distribution.
And have you included how much your employer puts away for your retirement funds? That could be a significant part of compensation.
Nyrigheit at 2023-08-07 11:49:02+00:00 ID:
jv5epaz
You bought into the marketing. Welcome to reality.