I’m just a newb when it comes to high grade keyboards, but these things look wild, and I kind of want to try one.
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Glove 80 keyboard:
There’s also a wide world of alt letter layouts.
I would really love to try something like that, but I don’t want to sink money into it just to realize I hate it.
Edit: 400$ for the Glove 80. As much as I love the idea, that’s a no for meGot a split keyboard (ergodox ez) just to notice that all the special keys are very tough to reach and there are no F-keys. All in all not such a great experience. The split part is good though if you type a loooot anf if you have wrist rests.
The best way to “try before you buy” is to go to keyboard meetups in your area if they’re available. Unfortunately, that does leave a lot of folks out, but if you live in a city that will probably be your best bet.
I hate it because I love the way it looks, but I could never use one.
I can’t use a split keyboard because of the way I’ve taught myself to touch-type. My fingers move around too much. On the other hand, I type around ~90 wpm (mostly using two fingers) so I win something or other.
Big hands crew represent
Same. I learned to type without the whole “home rows” method and with some exceptions like shift (and A for some reason?) I type with two fingers per hand. Typing at 150wpm consistently is very fun.
150 wpm? Damn, I am in awe!
Thanks! On a bad day (or when tipsy, I use typeracer as a breathalyser) that goes away. Practice makes perfect
I touch type with fingers on the home row with a slight drive and my max is 110 wpm, average about 90.
I’m very impressed.
Can you type blindly when you don’t have home rows?
As in without looking at the keyboard? Yes.
You can re-teach yourself.
Touch typing is like learning different languages. Just because you learn a new one doesn’t mean you forget the first.
I love my Glove80, had it for about a year now and couldn’t be happier.
For anyone interested in alt layouts, https://getreuer.info/posts/keyboards/alt-layouts/index.html is one of the best introductions out there. Also https://lemmy.world/c/ergomechkeyboards is a nice resource on fancy keyboards.
This is what I use every day
Is that your own layout, or is it a scheme like QWERTY or DVORAK that I haven’t heard about?
Colemak is an alternative keyboard created by Shai Coleman, named as a portmanteau of Dvorak and Coleman. Its design goals consist of easy transition from QWERTY due to repositioning only 17 letter keys. Additionally the AZXCV shortcuts are in the same location perhaps allowing an easier time switching from QWERTY.
It also claims greater efficiency than Dvorak. Furthermore it places complete emphasis on the home-row: the ten most-common characters in English are on the ten home-row keys.
Source: Wikipedia
That’s a columnar stagger, not ortholinear.
I was kinda disappointed that this article didn’t explain columnar stagger.
I daily drive an iris by keebio.
This is something I would consider using. I’ve had issues in the past with tendonitis and I don’t want that issue to get worse.
Interesting, what layout is that,
for keyboard shortcuts do they map with the key location or physically? for control + p (print page) would you press control + y or the actual p button?
They work the same, Ctrl+P for print. The layout is programmed into the keyboard microcontroller; your computer never gets any information beyond which key you’re pressing.
Prefer column staggered, but yes they really make you wonder how we got stuck with the dominant keyboard configurations. Typing with linear columns feels way more natural.
Typewriters.
They had bars that needed to physically move, and so staggering them helped them not collide and get jammed.
If you imagine a bar coming from the center of each key towards your screen, you can see how the staggering was helpful. For instance, M misses J and K above it, naturally, but it also slightly misses I and the 8 above that.
It’s a great solution for a nonexistent problem in keyboards.
It probably really helped people who learned to type on a typewriter make the first changeovers, and now it’s what everybody learns to type on for the most part so it hasn’t budged. I’ve noticed at work that my gen z coworkers often struggle to type out a solid nursing note (most of them learned to type on a phone screen) so I wonder if this is maybe an opportunity for more of those alternative layouts to start taking hold as typing becomes a less common thing people need to learn early on.
Wasn’t the whole idea to minimize the amount of times your typewriter seized up? Happened often enough with QWERTY keyboards when it came to the cheap typewriters. Yes, I’m old.
That is why the letters are all in a funny order, but that’s not why the keys were staggered. They were staggered because of the mechanical linkages underneath the keys, so the linkages could be made straight rather than having to bend around other keys in the way.
I sense I’m about to fall into a deep, deep rabbit hole 😄
I’m of the firm opinion that the best keyboard layout and type is the one you feel most comfortable with.
But then I’m also of that opinion when it comes to things like desktop OSes, phone brands, etc.
It’s not a popular opinion.
Unfortunately what you are most comfortable could also cause repetitive stress injury like carpal tunnel. I have a brother in law who damaged his nerves because a Macplus keyboard felt best to him.
I’ve been typing pretty much every day since I was 6 and got my brother’s old Apple ][+. I’m 47 now and still no carpal tunnel.
I’ve been using a computer on an almost daily basis for over a decade now, and before that I used one whenever I had the opportunity because I’ve loved computers since I was a kid. I’m 30 and have carpal tunnel in my mouse hand, not bad enough to get it surgically fixed, but I wear a wrist brace pretty much 24/7 at this point to keep the pain under control.
That said I agree with your point about using whatever you’re comfortable with completely, just wanted to throw my own anecdotal experience out there for others to see. Everyone’s different and what’s fine for you or me may not be for others.
I share that opinion! Doowutchyalike!
That sometimes works, but sometimes the right way is not immediately comfortable so people so stuff that seems right and hurt themselves. Sometimes the thing that seemed correct initially was only because of a lack of deeper understanding and an ignorance of the knowledge of those who have already made the mistakes.
I dance, play instruments, drive cars, and do a whole lot of other things where the immediately comfortable thing is so often one of the best ways to develop a massively limiting habit that is a huge pain to get away from once you realize how badly it’s holding you back.
It’s a case-by-case basis, of course, but simply “the best is what you’re most comfortable with” does not have near the nuance it needs to not be abused. It is great advice for people once they have built up a strong base of knowledge, and until then they need to get over it and try things.
I agree with you when it comes to ergonomics. When it comes to software… Not so much. You do you though! No shade.
Are there full-size ortho keyboards?
Short answer: Yes. ID75 or XD75 pack in a full set of keys in 80% case. Some are pretty ridiculous - BFO-9000 or FU!Keyboard
Long answer: most orthos are designed so that you can hold layer shift keys with your thumbs(RSE, LWR for Raise and Lower) to type other keys(e.g. Lower+J types “-“ and Raise+J types “_”). This way you type the keys of a full layout without moving your hands off home row and with less keys overall.
I don’t know of anything marketed as such, though some ortholinear POS terminals can be easily repurposed into big keyboards. The ortho users tend to be very interested in ergonomics, and one of the guiding principles there is minimizing hand movement (sometimes I personally think this goes a bit far; it seems to me that if it’s good to move the rest of your body from time to time, it’s good to move your arms and hands too). Most of them are quite small. The biggest size I’ve seen regularly is 75 keys in a 15x5 grid. Of course, ortho/ergo is also a very DIY-friendly space, so sometimes you see… outliers. LOL.
I have a split ortholinear keyboard that I made with parts from Keebio, I fucking love it. It has really reduced wrist strain for me.
It’s the Levinson Rev. 3, which is relatively cheap (this is an expensive hobby just FYI) if you want to get into keyboards.
Edit: Levinson Rev. 3 was discontinued but the BFO-9000 is still a good option for a no-frills dip into things.
(this is an expensive hobby just FYI)
Yeah custom keyboards get absurdly expensive very quickly.
They’re dope. Everything being the same size (1u) is fun. I’ve only ever typed on one though. I have 4 custom keyboards and none of them are orthos.
I have a planck at work and a preonic at home. It takes some time to get used to but now that I have switched I will never go back. I might try something split like a corne next but I’m kind of waiting for something that matches my olkb boards a bit better. Ortholinear would be the new standard if I had my way. I’m also eyeing that MNT Reform pocket pretty hard for that awesome keyboard but I really want them to release a tactile switch option for it.
I understood some of those words.
I want to try it but I’m worried that I’ll get too frustrated and then have (another) expensive keyboard that I don’t use.
I use a planck as my daily driver. I wouldn’t recommend it unless you have some good reasons to switch.
It took about 2 weeks of use and practice before I could type at a reasonable rate with it. And then it took about 2 weeks before I could type on a normal keyboard again.
I had a few reasons why I got one
- I travel enough that having a small form factor was important
- I have small hands, and was developing some wrist pain from stretching and moving my hand on larger keyboards. It did help a lot, but I think switching to a 60% would have been just as helpful.
- I didn’t type that fast anyway and have pretty bad form, I was hoping switching layouts would be a natural way to retrain my typing and type faster. I did improve for a bit, but I stopped practicing and am a pretty terrible typer again
I do think it’s pretty cool. It’s a conversation starter when people walk by my desk. The planck is a 40%, so most people haven’t seen a keyboard that small.
Check out some of the keyboards posted here: [email protected]
Orthos are far superior to staggered keyboards. No finger is bigger than 1U and you don’t have to twist or move your hands.
Strongly disagree on the not twisting part. You need a split keyboard to get the proper wrist angle
I have an ortho I made, and I just couldn’t get used to it. I’ve never had any keyboard-related RSI, and my “spider dance” typing is very much a hand-eye coordination task, so… ehhh. No neuroplasticity for it.
The devil’s creation.
the one on the thumbnail looks like it contains at least 95% cocoa
interesting, how is the typing speed on those compared to normal keyboards?
