I don’t directly blame Biden though.
The blame falls first and foremost on the DNC. It’s likely that if they hadn’t overtly sabotaged Sanders, Trump wouldn’t have even had a first term, much less a second.
I blame Biden for his administration’s unwavering support of Israel’s ongoing genocide campaign. That 100% depressed voter turnout.
I saw a couple heavily down voted articles that said that was the largest issue and around 30% of people who voted Biden 2020 but didn’t vote 2024 gave that as their reason.
It’s fucking insane so many people immediately started denying that was the biggest issue
Big? Sure. Biggest? No. Biggest was “the economy”. It’s practically a law of nature that inflation ends governments.
No, it beat the economy.
I’ll try to find it
Edit:
According to the poll, 29% of that voter group said “ending Israel’s violence in Gaza” was the “most important issue” for them in the election.
Gaza was followed by the economy (24%), medicare and society security (12%), immigration and border security (11%), healthcare (10%) and abortion policy (9%).
I wasn’t thinking so specifically about Biden voters who stayed home in 24. I see that’s what you were talking about initially.
If you simply ask everyone who voted for Trump, the economy was the top issue. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/11/13/what-trump-supporters-believe-and-expect/
That’s all I was saying. But there are, I think, three groups which it would be interesting to have this answer for. The first is the one you mentioned. The other two are people who voted for Biden and switched to Trump, and people who chose not to vote in 2020 and voted for Trump in '24. I couldn’t find those answers readily.
The stupidity is with these fools thinking Trump would be better for Palestinians.
If it wasn’t obvious with Trump moving the embassy to Jeruselum and telling Bibi to, “Finish the job” while privately meeting with Bibi to likely stall a ceasefire agreement pre-election to make Democrats look back, Trump definitely is fully enabling of said Genocide, likely making it worse (eg, you think he would’ve pressed for a humanitarian aid route into Gaza? FUCK no.)
So then the logical thing to say in an inevitable binary-choice election is: “if Trump and Biden/Harris are equally bad on Israel/Palestine policy (they’re not), is Biden/Harris better on other issues, notably domestically, like oh I don’t know women’s rights and climate change?” You bet your ass.
Hence why couch sitters and Stein voters piss me off far more than Trump supporters, themselves; for they should know better. Yet they fell for the online astroturfing disinfo wars. Drank the Russian vodka.
Edit: The user below keeps curiously deflecting, so I’ll just cut to the chase by going above:
Genocide (a) has a spectrum of severity and is not a boolean function, while (b) Gaza isn’t the only place an attempted Genocide is currently being carried out; Ukraine is another place — and it is abundantly clear that both Biden and Harris were better than the Putin-sympathizing puppet that is Trump. So if you didn’t vote, worked against Harris, voted Stein, etc. then YOU, too, are complicit with blood on your hands of WORSENING not one but TWO genocides.
Uh… Trump actually did something about Gaza so it seems the Gaza protest non-voters got what they wanted.
are you noticing that your comment regarding the yougov poll stating this fact is getting more engagement than any of the other comments and are you also noticing that they’re all refuting it?
Nope, but I block alot of people who refuse to address how to gain voters back and just want to screech at them (even tho they’ll never see/hear it).
It makes social media a lot better and I highly recommend it.
It makes social media a lot better and I highly recommend it.
my neurodivergence has forced me to develop a tolerance to shitty people, so i know i can handle a lot of toxicity; that why i’m still commenting here.
i say this because it’s also afforded me the experience of knowing that neurotypicals can only handle so much toxicity before they give-up/check-out/take-a-vacation and i hope you don’t fall into the same pattern; there’s already too few sane people on .world and your departure would make it much worse than that of of your follow .worlder.
GOP or DNC, it doesn’t matter. Both sides are owned by the oligarchs, rich, and corporations. The masses have a common enemy and political parties are their weapons of division and diversion to keep us in check.
A good chunk of Americans are so poisoned when it comes to socialism that they think Biden is a commie and you think Bernie had a chance?
Yes.
Two things I believe in that context:
- Those Americans are louder than they are numerous.
- Some significant portion of the ex post facto “Sanders couldn’t have won anyway” spin was and is astroturf.
The last election just proved your first part wrong.
I think it proves me right.
Harris had a clear lead right up until she started backing away from her earlier more populist rhetoric in order to suck up to the corporate donors.
Her policies were significantly more progressive than Trump’s yet Trump won the popular vote.
I voted for Harris, but were her policies significantly more progressive than Trump’s. Which policies specifically? Harris lost because she moved right, and alienated her base to try to woo the center right. Leftist policy regularly polls really well with Americans of both parties once you remove party affiliation.
Trump is signed executive orders today for the us government only recognizing two genders and that they are ‘accurate’.
Do you think Harris would be doing that?
I’m mean, OK, but less than 1/3 of the registered voters voted Trump. Less than 1/3.
I fully expect 1/3 of our country to be right wing, but for another 1/3 to just sit home and stare at themselves in their precious phones… how can they live with themselves?
“An American Tragedy 2: How they’ll fucking do it again in a few years if Democrats keep running on a return to normalcy boogaloo”
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There literally is only one party(no pun intended) worth holding accountable, and that is Biden, Harris, and the Democratic party leadership. Sure you can be angry at other voters for not voting how you wanted, but that’s not productive, and ignores the issues that made them vote however they did. The Dems one job was to appeal to their voting base, and they failed miserably. Holding them accountable is the only solution that actually addresses the issue, which is that millions of people are dissatisfied with them. You’re not going to bully a huge amount of Americans into changing their minds, but putting pressure on the Dems, whoch is what the ‘undecided’ voters were all about, might eventually yield results. It might have even happened in this last election if other so-called progressives hadn’t taken such a strong stance trying to silence them, or accuse them of being russian trolls. If the polling numbers had been worse in the year leading up to the election, if the ‘blue no matter who’ crowd had taken a stand, if people hadnt theown away their only leverage months before the election even happened, then maybe the democrats would have altered their campaign trajectory and we wouldnt be in this situation. As it is the DNC are the only ones who are truly at fault.
It’s wild to me that we’re having a discussion about Israel in these comments, voters told us exactly what their major concerns were and they were economic and it wasn’t even close. Foreign policy, trans issues, etc are all hot button topics easy to argue over but voters felt the economy was bad and that’s the biggest reason Trump won.
29% - Ending Israel’s violence in Gaza
24% - The economy
12% - Medicare and Social Security
11% - Immigration and border security
10% - Healthcare
9% - Abortion policy
5% - Don’t knowdeleted by creator
What I’m pushing back on is “it wasn’t even close”
Maybe Gaza wasn’t the deciding factor, and obviously we can’t know for sure because this is all hindsight and because polls aren’t necessarily always perfectly accurate for the reasons you said, but I don’t think it should be dismissed. It was close.
deleted by creator
By not recognizing that it was both you kind of are dismissing it.
deleted by creator
If it boiled down to groceries and perceptions of the economy, then nothing else matters. That’s definitely failing to recognize it.
It was the economy and the genocide. It was both.
Except these people didn’t decide the election, because almost nobody who voted where it matters did this and if every one of them had shown up the outcome would have been the same. Across the six states that flipped from 2020 to 2024, Harris lost less than 80,000 votes combined. She was less than a percent off Biden’s record setting performance. Trump gained more than 800,000 votes in the same places. The block that decided the election was not Democrats ‘staying home,’ it was independant and irregular voters showing up—for Trump.
She got 7 million fewer votes than Biden.
Now I’m not saying the economy wasn’t important, I’m just countering the claim that “it wasn’t even close” - it clearly was.
Good job pretending like you don’t understand that the electoral college exists and why that matters.
And in order to figure what was most important to voters you also have to consider the ones that actually, you know, voted. Which that poll almost entirely ignores.
Okay, so the poll I linked were people that voted. They cast ballots for someone other than Harris.
Yes, some of the questions in the poll address the fraction of the poll who did vote for someone other than Harris. Which is why I wrote ‘almost’. The poll completely ignores the question of actual fraction of voters that those questions are attempting to represent (not many) as well as what the much, much larger fraction of voters who voted for both Biden and Harris thought. You have to go to the other poll for that and the answers about the influence of Biden’s policy toward providing weapons to Israel become less clear.
- Did the Biden administration’s policy of providing taxpayer-funded weapons to Israel make you [more likely to vote for Kamala Harris in 2024, less likely], or make no difference?
More likely . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14%
Less likely . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . … . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9%
Make no difference . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77%
- If Kamala Harris had pledged to break from President Biden’s policy toward Gaza by promising to withhold additional weapons to Israel for committing human rights abuses against Palestinian civilians, would it have made you [more enthusiastic, less enthusiastic] to vote for Harris, or make no difference? Asked of those who voted for Harris
More enthusiastic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 35%
Less enthusiastic . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5%
Make no difference . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 59%
Forcing one to wonder how exactly the translation between enthusiasm and voting likelihood works. The only thing that does seem to be clear is ‘makes no difference’ was by far the most popular opinion, which is pretty easy to read as people cared most about something else.
None of that reads as “wasn’t even close” to me. That looks like, actually, it was significant and it did influence a lot of voters and it shouldn’t be dismissed. 35% is not insignificant - even if, as you say, it’s hard to translate [more enthusiastic, less enthusiastic] into actual tangible votes. What we can clearly see, though, is that siding with Biden on Gaza definitely didn’t help. Only 5% of voters would have been turned off by her deciding to break with Biden on Israel. She’d have lost almost nothing and gained a lot.
Would Harris have won if she broke with Biden? I don’t know, and I’m not saying she would! I only want to push back on the implied claim that it was irrelevant.
Online sample of 604 voters fielded from December 20 to January 07, 2025.
Lol
So they polled people who were chilling on the internet over the holidays, like 6 weeks after the election
Pardon me if I find Pew more trustworthy
IMEU and YouGov are generally considered credible sources, but okay.
You give them sources they agree with and they still ignore the facts of reality.
Wild. When you dig into those poll results it is sadly clear that Kamala only would’ve won by pivoting right.
You mean beyond supporting genocide and campaigning with the cheyneys?
Well… They felt it was bad, but actually it’s pretty fucking good. So the cause is clearly uneducated dumbfuck voters? Keep em stupid and keep em watching TV.
