• @[email protected]
      36•9 days ago

      It’s a very C++ thing that the language developers saw the clusterfuck that is stream flushing on the kernel and decided that the right course of action was to create another fucking layer of hidden inconsistent flushing.

      • @[email protected]
        2•8 days ago

        programmers manage to do stupid shit in every language. i was wondering if there was a way to stop them, and golang comes close but maybe proves it can’t be done. idk!

    • unalivejoyEnglish
      20•10 days ago

      Just because the box says something is flushable doesn’t mean you should flush it.

    • @[email protected]
      1•8 days ago

      Considering std::cout should only directly be used when you are too lazy to place breakpoints, I totally get the decision to auto-flush.

  • pelya
    30•10 days ago

    printf is superior and more concise, and snprintf is practically the only C string manipulation function that is not painful to use.

    Try to print a 32-bit unsigned int as hexadecimal number of exactly 8 digits, using cout. You can do std::hex and std::setw(8) and std::setfill('0') and don’t forget to use std::dec afterwards, or you can just, you know, printf("%08x") like a sane person.

    Just don’t forget to use -Werror=format but that is the default option on many compilers today.

    C++23 now includes std::print which is exactly like printf but better, so the whole argument is over.

    • @[email protected]
      3•9 days ago

      I went digging in cppref at the format library bc I thought c++20 or c++23 added something cool.

      Found std::print and was about to reply to this comment to share it bc I thought it was interesting. Then I read the last sentence.

      Darn you and your predicting my every move /j

  • @[email protected]English
    23•9 days ago

    I am very sorry to remind everyone about the existence of Visual Basic, but it has:

    • VbCrLf
    • VbNewLine
    • ControlChars.CrLf
    • ControlChars.NewLine
    • Environment.NewLine
    • Chr(13) & Chr(10)

    And I know what you’re asking: Yes, of course all of them have subtly different behavior, and some of them only work in VB.NET and not in classic VB or VBA.

    The only thing you can rely on is that “\r\n” doesn’t work.

  • @[email protected]English
    20•9 days ago

    Simple. \n when you just want a newline.
    endl when you need to flush at the moment.

    Useful in case you are printing a debug output right before some function that might do bed stuff to buffers.

    Edit: I wrote println instead of endl somehow. Guess I need more downtime

      • pelya
        3•9 days ago

        It depends on whether you are printing to a terminal or to a file (and yes the terminal is also a file), and even then you can control the flushing behaviour using something like unbuffer

    • @[email protected]
      4•8 days ago

      I just learned that in Python, it’s fucking terrible. Python is a fucking mess and my next script will be in a different language.

      • qazEnglish
        4•8 days ago

        Perhaps TS is not a terrible language for shell scripts after all

      • @[email protected]
        3•8 days ago

        As a python lover, I have to ask, what don’t you like about it and what languages do you generally prefer?

        • @[email protected]
          1•7 days ago

          I prefer strongly typed languages. Using bytes isn’t intuitive.

          Transforming certain data types into other data types is often not straightforward.

          The identation is the worst though. Let me format the code however I want.

  • Rikudou_Sage
    5•10 days ago

    In PHP it exists as well. I try to use PHP_EOL but when I’m lazy I simply do “\n”.

    • Fonzie!
      1•9 days ago

      For me the answer is “Building backend applications with it instead of CLI applications, like Lerdorf intended.”

      But also "\n" because it’s easier and PHP_EOL is just an alias for "\n"; it’s not even platform-dependent.

      • Rikudou_Sage
        2•9 days ago

        PHP_EOL depends on your host system, it’s \r\n on Windows.

        I don’t really want to use what Lerdorf intended, PHP <= 4 was horrible, 5.x was mainly getting slowly rid of nonsense and with 7.x PHP started its slow path of redemption and entered its modern era.

        While Lerdorf’s vision was great at that time for its intended use case, I wouldn’t want to build anything serious in it.

        • Fonzie!
          1•9 days ago

          It actually outputs "\n" on a Windows system, but modern Windows to recognise that as enough of a newline, nowadays.

          I don’t really want to use what Lerdorf intended, PHP <= 4 was horrible

          Actually a great point!

  • Sibbo
    3•10 days ago

    Wasn’t this {fmt} library merged into STL now? Does this solve this issue?

    Anyways, there was also a constant that is the OS line ending without a flush, right?

  • r00ty
    3•9 days ago

    Maybe c# has similar. There’s \r\n or \n like c++ and Environment.NewLine.

    Probably it’s similar in that Environment.NewLine takes into account the operating system in use and I wonder if endl in c++ does the same thing?

    • @[email protected]
      4•9 days ago

      C# also has verbatim strings, in which you can just put a literal newline.

      string foo = @"This string 
has a line break!";
  • palordrolap
    2•10 days ago

    If endl is a function call and/or macro that magically knows the right line ending for whatever ultimately stores or reads the output stream, then, ugly though it is, endl is the right thing to use.

    If a language or compiler automatically “do(es) the right thing” with \n as well, then check your local style guide. Is this your code? Do what you will. Is this for your company? Better to check what’s acceptable.

    If you want to guarantee a Unix line ending use \012 instead. Or \cJ if your language is sufficiently warped.

    • @[email protected]
      9•10 days ago

      It’s a “stream manipulator” function that not only generates a new line, it also flushes the stream.

    • pelya
      3•9 days ago

      Ah don’t worry, if you do fopen(file, "w") on Windows and forget to use "wb" flag, it will automatically replace all your \n with \r\n when you do fwrite, then you will try to debug for half a day your corrupted jpeg file, which totally never happened to me because I’m an experienced C++ developer who can never make such a novice mistake.