Fucking traitorous scum
Sad but predictable unfortunately, Linus should have left his role as head maintainer a long time ago, there are plenty of talented and experienced maintainers that could have taken up the torch, and the Linux foundation could have made sure it was ran democratically.
Linuses obsessive control over the kernel has been worrying for about a decade at this point.
Hopefully someone takes his advice as does a fork, just have to figure out what to call it.
Delinus Linux?
Need to find someone named Denis to make it, call it Denux
Coming in here and seeing all the bans…
I know there are two sides to every story. So one shouldn’t just judge from the number of bans, comment upvote ratio, and definitely not by also reading the modlog reasoning…
It’s like half the thread belongs in one of the power_tripping_bastard/mod_abuse communities
I see it as keeping at least one part of our community free of the incessant noise of the AI crowd. There are places enough to debate the pros and cons of AI ad nauseam. This community isn’t that place.
Cool. I have a feeling what would happen, if someone was to foolish enough to argue against that.
I’m sure the commenters broke a clearly stated rule that they knew about.
Sounds like a really quick way to an echo chamber. That’s not healthy. Also part of why reddit went to shit. There’s nothing wrong with contrasting opinions.
What’s worth reading crying about water, theft, and fear from people who don’t want anyone using it to be allowed to develop anything?
There’s plenty to be said but 99.9% of the noise is stupid and pointless.
That is true, but considering how anti-AI folks can give every legit reason in the book and will still get dismissed with “yeah but if we just use it responsibly” and other hand-waving nonsense, I understand why the mods would be a bit trigger happy. I’m sick of it, too.
Contrasting opinions? In my community?
It’s more likely than you think!
Lol almost went with the song link. Probably should’ve.
I fucking hate AI and view it as an disgrace to human dignity, but the pro-AI people should be allowed to come here and look like fools of they like (as long as they’re not using AI to write their posts).
Yeah, let’s bring in the MAGAts and the fascists, too, while we are at it. Two sides to every story!
Opinions on AI are a litmus test for sanity. Full stop.
that escalated quickly into whataboutism
Well unlike the others who commented you seem to post regularly here. So your opinion is actually worth something. Usually I don’t have to do much in regards to moderation, just the usual spam. Its really only this type of thread where a popular person gets criticised for their AI use and their fan club shows up. Then I try to get ahead of that and kick them out so it doesn’t fester. Free marketplace of ideas is all well and good until one side makes enough noise to drown out every opposing voice and I see the AI side very much as the noisy one.
you seem to post regularly here. So your opinion is actually worth something
Maybe that lovely quote could be in the sidebar of the community? Maybe above the rules that the banned users broke.
I think the problem is the ragebait article designed to appeal to the science deniers that you want to fester here. It’s not hard to be against AI but it is really easy to be stupid about it. And you are all verrryyyy quick to point out someone else being stupid about AI so it is integral you take the L’s when you earn them. And you are definitely earning this one. I mean how can you admit to controlling the narrative by banning people who want to rebut nonsense?
Everything about this place is just designed to enrage while science is completely ignored and personal opinion and feelings are treated as evidence. You stray from reality and complain about experts making decisions in their field. It’s entirely anti-vaxx magat tier nonsense you are doing this on purpose.
Linus is a traitor to Open Source community. Using and promoting a tool created by stealing the works of thousands of developers, artists etc. He might be a good programmer but he is a fucking douchebag.
Even worse is, that he’s inadequately helping capital, including Microsoft, in stripping the common man of their own computing, to rent it back to them.
I’ll take a neutral source to read this, because the headline suggests this article is at the very least over hyping and at worst plain lying
Been a bit of a bother trying to find the actual info and not a rage piece that makes FOX News look sane. And I don’t touch that agency with an 11ft pole.
From what I remember reading, Linus uses LLMs to help during bug hunting - the second pair of eyes. This is actually a useful part of the AI models - they may be awful at code writing, but they do seem to have some capability when looking over code as a first line proofer. That is, it’s useful for you to get a direction as to where to look further with issues.
As for the Assisted-By tag being removed, it was a matter that no one was really using it, making it functionally useless.
Torvalds’s first publicly released chatbot code was in January this year, when he vibe-coded a project in Python because he didn’t know enough Python. The programming language kids learn in high school. The guy who runs the kernel couldn’t get his head around Python.
I’m pissed at the AI companies for all kinds of things like hiking computer parts prices and the impending destruction of the economy when the
lieshype dies. But this is a weak ass argument.The guy who created the Linux kernel and git can absolutely get his head around Python. He’s just allocating his time and energy toward kernel development rather than learning Python and rightly so. Besides, maybe he just hates the language. I know I do, but I started with Perl, so that shaped the way I like to work.
I know I do, but I started with perl
Throwing rocks from a glass house I see ;)
Perl has scope delimiters, so a sturdy glass house.
perl accepts perlin noise as valid perl programs so scope delimiters don’t mean much.
I genuinely love the idea of the $1 after a match. It feels so natural in perl! So many things are text matching.
But! But! But!! Those $ variables are dynamic scoped! If you call a method and it matches stuff you lose the variables!
I’ll bet there is a way around it. But it made me so sad.
Yes, regex handling in Perl is the smoothest I have ever seen, and it matched the first description I heard of perl as “the best tool for text processing”. I have done big things with that.
Those $ variables are dynamic scoped! If you call a method and it matches stuff you lose the variables!
My match scopes typically looked like so:
if ($inString =~ /^([ \t]+)(.*)$/) { my $indent = $1; # store first match my $remainder = $2; # store second match # do stuff }(not tested, just edited by hand to anonymise)
I think it came up more like
if ($inString =~ /^([ \t]+)(.*)$/ && has_a_cow($2)) {For me. I dunno. I was never good at perl. I just wanted to hack something together.
So does Python /s
Just create a new file or a top level function
except that it breaks my debugging strategy, where I left-align debug code so I can easily spot it and remove it later.
He’s just allocating his time and energy toward kernel development
Then he should have stuck to his lane.
Absolutely. If you don’t have time to do anything else, just fucking stay away from it. Don’t fucking pretend to contribute to an area, while in reality you’re just polluting it and destroying the natural environment at the same time.
because he didn’t know enough Python. The programming language kids learn in high school. The guy who runs the kernel couldn’t get his head around Python.
This is such an ignorant thing to say. Python syntax is indeed simple and is taught in high schools, but neither means learning to program in Python is easy or doesn’t take a lot of time.
But learning python is easy and takes no time for an experienced dev. The language is just shite.
He could get his head around python if he wanted to, that statement is laughable.
Sure. But that’s like an English literature scholar deciding they want to write a pamphlet, but in French, despite knowing very little French – so instead of learning French, or just writing the pamphlet in English, or asking someone who knows French to translate…they use AI to write the thing. That’s really stupid.
We just need more volunteers? Isn’t it just that the development is on such few people?
Use the enemy’s weapons against them.
At what point does someone fork the kernel project, call it something else, and commit to 0 slop code? My impression is that after a few update cycles, code gets harder to remove because other components start to rely on it so it seems like the time is now.
Maintaining the kernel would be such a HUGE undertaking, and I imagine that’s why nobody’s done it yet. That said, we do know the last untainted version in case anybody wants to try…
it’s not that it’s harder to remove, with no reliable info about which commits are human made and which aren’t, you can’t reuse any of them from this point in time.
for the record, the diff just between 7.2 and 7.3-rc7 is over 1.5 million lines and comes out to a 61 megabyte patch. but linux has been accepting sloppy code for a bit now and the last clean version is 6.16.7.
you’d need a really well funded and motivated group of developers, and even then i worry how doable that is, especially if the goal is to stay linux-compatible.
they’re proud of the hurdles they’ve put in the way of human contributors but also let swarms of clankers right in
i’m so depressed
had all this happened 2 years ago i don’t think i would’ve bothered switching away from windows tbh
i wonder how many people now are thinking the same thing…
We’re now thinking of switching to BSD. But I’m hoping enough kernel maintainers and others will move to a fork of the last pre-LLM-touched kernel(s) ASAP.
How much AI slop do you think is in Windows by this point? If I’m forced to choose an OS when they ALL contain AI written code, I’ll choose the open source one.
and now we’re back to lesser evilism
personally, i’m not switching back to windows, but i also can’t blame someone for choosing not to bother with learning a new os and dealing with its limitations now that the ethical and community arguments that might have convinced them (and that convinced me) are moot
That’s why I included the bit about “forced to choose”. Most people aren’t in that situation, and they can happily stay. I’m just speaking about a hypothetical situation where everything else is equal.
This stance still doesnt make sense. The average user is effected by the quality degrading design choices crammed into windows. None of that transfers to Linux. The only pop-up I get asking me to do anything is discovery telling me to update a flatpack. Its still a night and day difference. Dont miss the sun because the ground is more comfortable to stare at.
and now we’re back to lesser evilism
Always were? Linux has never been a perfect OS, just the least bad option that gets you by without trying to scam you into subscribing to Copilot 365
Linux still has the advantage of not coming packed with trackers and spy software. But who knows what the future holds? maybe the ai agents will sneak in some backdoors purposefully.
i really don’t think they’re smart enough to backdoor anything on purpose
Maybe I’ll give BSD another go
It’s kind of incredible to me that the dude that started this project would be so quick to allow it to become slopped.
I’m forced to use LLMs at work myself, but even I have projects that I’m unwilling to let them touch, and I’m talking about a personal text editor for fuck’s sake, not something I’ve spent my whole life building and attached my name to.
So many people have become shameless garbage.
This exactly! I don’t understand how one would let an LLM touch their passion projects. I don’t mind someone quickly slopping together a little python script for something, but I would never let it touch my babies. It’d be like buying a self-assembling lego set. Sure the end result is the same, but is the end result why someone buys a lego set?
Linus on the Linux kernel (after writing a single python script w/ an LLM):
No one should be surprised.
Man’s got a massive ego problem, and has done for years. Of course he’d think his AI code is good.
he’d think his AI code is god.
Give it time.
No need. The Ppl behind GBT are litterly lobbying the pope to recognize their AI has a soul
That I know that’s really a thing makes me want to have a physical tantrum over how stupid and frustrating it is
Thanks, I thought I was in a minority thinking he is losing his marbles, but the upvotes you got say there’s more people realizing that.
Only TempleOS is safe now
Praise him*.
*Terry A. Davis
What about BeOS?
I read it yesterday, but did’t publish here considering someone else did already. Yet, apparently… you just did!
Thank you, @[email protected] ! ^^
This is all… such a… dear… sorrow… no words may express it…
I’ve been in Linux for around 20 years now…
And this is freaking f… awful to see…The thing is that these projects, as Linux, Aircrack, cryptography, exploits I’ve been into for many years… created by actual developers who learned, who managed… who achieved… had been inspiring me to also learn, to discover, to achieve… There were Now? It starts to mean nothing.
Now, there’s someone lazy who “achieved” something being lucky enough for their stupid prompt for a model to generate a desired output.
It’s worth nothing. It’s worthless.
The fact that once hackers/effortful/artists/people, now don’t learn, don’t discover, don’t communicate, don’t share, don’t publish, don’t think for fudge sake… with their head/mind on their shoulders atrophying… don’t achieve, don’t deserve their name mentioned since they didn’t write it but their/vendor’s models did…
This AIs? This ruins all of it, it overwrites the Git/human history with actual ingenious people leaving behind…
Devaluing everything…Such a sorrowful time to live… and see/feel of this… with so many indifferent and careless people… who just need a result without any understanding and realization how it actually works or was derived…
I cannot still wrap that around my mind properly…
I try to think less about the history being obliterated, people getting forgotten, ingenious ideas devalued…Also note that the python visualizer tool has been basically written by vibe-coding. I know more about analog filters – and that’s not saying much…
Yet, there’s also “copyright”:
- https://github.com/torvalds/AudioNoise/blob/main/LICENSEHow is that a copyright if this project was created by a machine/algorithm, not him?
How is that human work worth a copyright that is supposed to be for humans only?Just to clarify, I appreciate Linux and the Community for the ineffably magnificent history… the operating system, the freaking marvelous effort and love within all it… I’ve been literally living in Linux since 2004 or so, I adore working with Linux… being around 40 years old myself.
It’s just… it’s just… so much gets devalued and ruined… and faster, faster, faster!
Where the heck are we all so hurry at? Hello?! Anyone?!You don’t even get time to live this life already, and now with the history getting rewritten on our eyes, code written with no names on it, music slopped, “slop-articles” published, “artworks” set in video-games… everything with no soul no effort in it, nameless…
In the end, we do we. I’ve been making my life with the beliefs in the precious value of achievements of human lives, be it code, algorithm, music, artwork, art, human experience…
Creating exploits, findings holes, adjusting security, break unbreakable etc. these are all achievements and you live with them.
You then could remember, after 10 years or more, that You achieved it. It would give you strength to continue living, a purpose.It’s been giving me the purpose to continue living, too…
There are still Developers and Communities who still apply warmth to my heart… the Hope…
- NetBSD may have found a new role: The AI-free FOSS OS
Code generated by a large language model or similar technology, such as GitHub/Microsoft’s Copilot, OpenAI’s ChatGPT, or Facebook/Meta’s Code Llama, is presumed to be tainted code, and must not be committed without prior written approval by core.
Source: https://www.netbsd.org/developers/commit-guidelines.html
Artists as the following video author though still give warmth to the heart… the dear hope… which is heartfelt, dear Soulfelt appreciated…
- https://youtu.be/xXmYX88s_7w (The Suno Reddit Page is Just Sad…)
Thank you… very much… dear Developers, Artists, People… who still believe in the history, purpose, attitude, humane Art, the love…
Please do stay safe… and I wish you success, stability, and peace…We inherit the earth, we inherit the war.
~ Inherit the Earth - Silent PlanetWell said. I’m saving this comment for later.
time to post this again:
a worthwhile read in regards to what pushing AI does to a contributor and a community:
https://blog.fallible.net/it-breaks-a-village/This is a monumental marvel…
Of course, it all must always stay alive…
Thank you heartfelt…it’s not individual characters that are the fundamental components of story, change, but the relationships between them
yup, very much applies to AI too
