A nation guided first and foremost by Marxist philosophy (with a lot of modern development for sure) is currently #2 by GDP and is poised to be the main driver of human development in the next half-century at least. But sure, it’s only a mental exercise.
Oh fuck, I hope to God your not talking about China who has pumped out more billionaires than the US for the third straight year. The one that used a planned economy to corner the global markets. They are so far from Communism or Socialism it isn’t funny.
China who has pumped out more billionaires than the US for the third straight year
They also have about 4x the population.
China’s mixed model does unfortunately still allow haute capitalists to spring up in certain industries. However the worst offenders are regularly captured and imprisoned, their wealth redistributed.
When was the last time a US or EU billionaire went to prison for any serious length of time and got their wealth confiscated?
The one that used a planned economy to corner the global markets
Oh no, a centrally planned & industrialized economy works better than unplanned, de-industrialized and over-financialized economy. Evil asians are cornering the market!
They are so far from Communism or Socialism it isn’t funny.
They are really far from communism as Marx defined it still. But they do have a working “mixed” system, with workers principally in control of the state, the state planning the economy, and the state directly controlling most important industries including finance, with regulated&limited capitalist development strategically allowed in some sectors of economy in order to advance the productive forces. This is consistent with (initial stages of) socialism in the most commonly understood Marxist-Leninist sense, similar to NEP if you’re familiar with the history of USSR. It is not socialism in the Stalinist or classical Maoist sense but I don’t think you are advocating for either of those.
But the amount of billionaires the US is printing is already problematic and that’s a capitalist country. The US should not be a country to compare to. It’s like if someone said “Well the Rwanda genocide actually caused more deaths than the Israeli one against Palestine”. Like yes, technically true, but the fact that there’s even a comparison to be made should be a big enough red flag.
When was the last time a US or EU billionaire went to prison for any serious length of time and got their wealth confiscated?
Unfortunately doesn’t happen nearly as often as it should, but with China since they seem to prefer executing them, I do suspect they’re largely political opponents they’re trying to keep quiet for good, not just criminals.
Oh no, a centrally planned & industrialized economy works better than unplanned, de-industrialized and over-financialized economy. Evil asians are cornering the market!
You DO realize China uses underhanded tactics, right? Subsidizing goods to be sold overseas is called dumping and there’s a reason the EU throws tariffs on tons of categories of goods from China. If it costs 20€ to make something in the EU but 15€ in China and then the Chinese government throws in another 5€ so the company could sell it even cheaper, that’s a bit of an issue for the EU’s industry.
But the amount of billionaires the US is printing is already problematic and that’s a capitalist country.
Yes, fully agreed. China is producing haute capitalists and it’s a problem they need to deal with.
The US should not be a country to compare to.
Both China and the US are global superpowers so a comparison is a necessary tool.
Out of two bad things, I will choose the less bad one.
they seem to prefer executing them
If you actually look at the last decade or so, they don’t actually execute most of them and it’s pretty much a “life without parole but you shouldn’t be naughty in prison”. I am also against capital punishment in all forms, and most prisons, I believe that even the worst billionaires can be reformed if you give them the chance. So this is indeed a valid criticism of China and I hope they can improve on that front.
largely political opponents they’re trying to keep quiet for good, not just criminals.
Yes, capitalists are the natural political enemy of the working class. You do not earn a billion dollars, you rob others of a billion dollars, and it’s only natural that people who did that will not have the best political intentions in mind. They all need to be kept at bay (actually just stripped of wealth and sent to do community service for a long time or smth).
Subsidizing goods to be sold overseas is called dumping
China is subsidizing its economy primarily to develop productive forces which is seen as a necessary step towards communism. This means also that it will be more competitive at the international stage; this is primarily just socialism winning in the “free market of ideas”.
there’s a reason the EU throws tariffs on tons of categories of goods from China
Or, hear me out, they could also subsidize their industries where it matters. But they can’t really because most of that subsidy will be promptly absorbed by the capitalist in charge, and that is primarily the point.
Like, think about this on a global scale. If every state stopped subsidizing all industries, we would only be left with what’s most profitable or the most popular with the working class, depending on the dominant mode of production. If everyone subsidized the industries necessary for human development, we would get human development. How is that not a win?
China is verifiably a socialist country in Marxist-Leninist sense. Unless you also want to claim that USSR under NEP was not a socialist country in a Marxist-Leninist sense in which case cool, you know Marxism-Leninism better than Lenin, congrats.
If you want to critique China there are hundreds of ways to do so, from human rights to urbanism to policing issues, but the economic equality or non-adherance to socialist principles is far down the list.
(clearly) unlike you, I’ve been to China and spoke to people there and read academic research on the subject.
China is not fascist, in fact it is quite close to the opposite (do you even know what characterizes fascism?).
China is not an oligarchy but a one-party bureaucracy (same as mid-to-late USSR). Not great either but the power is not concentrated in the hands of the few in the same sense as it is in the US, party factions and members have significant power&leverage all the way from local to national level.
A nation guided first and foremost by Marxist philosophy (with a lot of modern development for sure) is currently #2 by GDP and is poised to be the main driver of human development in the next half-century at least. But sure, it’s only a mental exercise.
Oh fuck, I hope to God your not talking about China who has pumped out more billionaires than the US for the third straight year. The one that used a planned economy to corner the global markets. They are so far from Communism or Socialism it isn’t funny.
They also have about 4x the population.
China’s mixed model does unfortunately still allow haute capitalists to spring up in certain industries. However the worst offenders are regularly captured and imprisoned, their wealth redistributed.
When was the last time a US or EU billionaire went to prison for any serious length of time and got their wealth confiscated?
Oh no, a centrally planned & industrialized economy works better than unplanned, de-industrialized and over-financialized economy. Evil asians are cornering the market!
They are really far from communism as Marx defined it still. But they do have a working “mixed” system, with workers principally in control of the state, the state planning the economy, and the state directly controlling most important industries including finance, with regulated&limited capitalist development strategically allowed in some sectors of economy in order to advance the productive forces. This is consistent with (initial stages of) socialism in the most commonly understood Marxist-Leninist sense, similar to NEP if you’re familiar with the history of USSR. It is not socialism in the Stalinist or classical Maoist sense but I don’t think you are advocating for either of those.
But the amount of billionaires the US is printing is already problematic and that’s a capitalist country. The US should not be a country to compare to. It’s like if someone said “Well the Rwanda genocide actually caused more deaths than the Israeli one against Palestine”. Like yes, technically true, but the fact that there’s even a comparison to be made should be a big enough red flag.
Unfortunately doesn’t happen nearly as often as it should, but with China since they seem to prefer executing them, I do suspect they’re largely political opponents they’re trying to keep quiet for good, not just criminals.
You DO realize China uses underhanded tactics, right? Subsidizing goods to be sold overseas is called dumping and there’s a reason the EU throws tariffs on tons of categories of goods from China. If it costs 20€ to make something in the EU but 15€ in China and then the Chinese government throws in another 5€ so the company could sell it even cheaper, that’s a bit of an issue for the EU’s industry.
Yes, fully agreed. China is producing haute capitalists and it’s a problem they need to deal with.
Both China and the US are global superpowers so a comparison is a necessary tool.
Out of two bad things, I will choose the less bad one.
If you actually look at the last decade or so, they don’t actually execute most of them and it’s pretty much a “life without parole but you shouldn’t be naughty in prison”. I am also against capital punishment in all forms, and most prisons, I believe that even the worst billionaires can be reformed if you give them the chance. So this is indeed a valid criticism of China and I hope they can improve on that front.
Yes, capitalists are the natural political enemy of the working class. You do not earn a billion dollars, you rob others of a billion dollars, and it’s only natural that people who did that will not have the best political intentions in mind. They all need to be kept at bay (actually just stripped of wealth and sent to do community service for a long time or smth).
China is subsidizing its economy primarily to develop productive forces which is seen as a necessary step towards communism. This means also that it will be more competitive at the international stage; this is primarily just socialism winning in the “free market of ideas”.
Or, hear me out, they could also subsidize their industries where it matters. But they can’t really because most of that subsidy will be promptly absorbed by the capitalist in charge, and that is primarily the point.
Like, think about this on a global scale. If every state stopped subsidizing all industries, we would only be left with what’s most profitable or the most popular with the working class, depending on the dominant mode of production. If everyone subsidized the industries necessary for human development, we would get human development. How is that not a win?
They are not socialist or communist period. They have some socialist policies but they are ruled by an oligarchy and are more fascist than the US.
Also, bad when US corners market on China but good when China does similar. Pure garbage.
China is verifiably a socialist country in Marxist-Leninist sense. Unless you also want to claim that USSR under NEP was not a socialist country in a Marxist-Leninist sense in which case cool, you know Marxism-Leninism better than Lenin, congrats.
If you want to critique China there are hundreds of ways to do so, from human rights to urbanism to policing issues, but the economic equality or non-adherance to socialist principles is far down the list.
Cool, you deny they are a fascist oligarchy. Good job with the bullshit propaganda.
I did critique China just now. You offered nothing to counter except lousy rhetoric. Have a good day sir.
(clearly) unlike you, I’ve been to China and spoke to people there and read academic research on the subject.
China is not fascist, in fact it is quite close to the opposite (do you even know what characterizes fascism?).
China is not an oligarchy but a one-party bureaucracy (same as mid-to-late USSR). Not great either but the power is not concentrated in the hands of the few in the same sense as it is in the US, party factions and members have significant power&leverage all the way from local to national level.
Clearly you regurgitate propaganda well. Next you are going to tell me that the US is a representative democracy.
China is so clearly fascist it isn’t fucking funny. Being in denial is pretty funny though, thanks for that. I appreciate you naivety.
China is not an oligarchy? Why do they have a concentrated wealthy ruling class!? Please, grow up.