All choices on the ballot suck, so I should just get myself shot by the fascists? I don’t see any good options. My fucking ballot had 17 elections where a republican was running unopposed. Staying home means I get the worst possible option. Welcome to Texas where the morons think Talarico is a communist (would be nice if only it were true).
The biggest problem is that humans are not capable of self governance. The sociopaths are the ones most interested in aggrandizing themselves through political office.
except the second guy tells you he will save you incrementally, but you know he’s lying and is sitting on the car as it slowly sinks in. the first guy is the reason you in this mess in the first place.
don’t go with either of them
Nothing disgusts me more than billionare “philanthropists” who pledge to give away 70%-90% of their wealth to charities AFTER THEY DIE… While these MFs REFUSE TO EVEN PAY 5% TAX NOW and keep hiding their wealth and fucking kids offshores!
AND guess what charity do they choose to donate it to after they fucking rot 6-ft underground? IT’S THEIR FAMILY-OWNED FOUNDATION CHARITY!
Every fucking billionare does this same trick to horde untaxed wealth for generation after the other. Or Elon who wants to go to Mars to “save humanity” , while doing jack shit to save humanity now and paying billions to support and keep Nazis in powers everywhere in the world.
So Fuck you Bill Gates, Fuck you Warren Buffon, Fuck you Zuck and Besos and every billionare philathropists who claim they will donate after they fucking dieThat’s not the choice we have. There’s the frustratingly slow option, and the “we’re gonna piss in your mouth and poke you in the eye with needles” recuers.
Yeah, but it’s election season the US, so OP is here to run interference and keep Republicans in office supporting Putin’s meatpuppet.
Democrats are who keep Republicans in office. Oh, and go fuck yourself, fascist pig.
You definitely have evidence for that accusation right? Haha no obviously you fucking don’t. Reported.
It’s pretty clear here asshole. Reported for being a fascist shill.
I see you ninja-edited on that “Haha no obviously you fucking don’t. Reported.” because you quickly decided you didn’t actually care about the answer to that question.
Well you sure showed him by not actually providing evidence though didn’t you?
You mean like Rule 4 of this community moderated by OP that literally prohibits the criticism of third-party votes? I’d explain why that’s evidence because of the effect casting votes for distant third parties with no chance of winning has in a first-past-the-post system, but Rule 4 ironically prohibits me from doing so.
No […] lessor [sic] evil rhetoric. Dismissing 3rd party votes or ‘wasted votes on 3rd party’ is lessor [sic] evil rhetoric.
I have no horse in this race, but I do find it hilarious how you decided to ignore their rule #6 whilst quoting another rule when convenient.
I have been exposed! The horror!
That’s not the choice we have
[rewrites the same exact thing]
Isn’t that exactly what OP said?
The difference is between one group doing a bad job of rescuing, while the other is actively trying to make things worse.
Isn’t that exactly what OP said?
Though the metaphor doesn’t work because Democrats also actively try to make things worse
You’re missing their point though. People are dying. While things are slow people are dying. At a certain point that becomes a problem doesn’t it? How long do you wait? How slow can we afford it to be?
It’s just kind of absurd to ask people who were dying of lack of Health Care right this minute to be patient. To ask people that are living in crippling poverty to be patient. To ask women and children that are being raped with impunity to be patient. We’re drowning here.
Nah man we can’t do anything about any of that. If we didn’t kill a few million per Working Class People every year then one CEO might not get his golden parachute. So obviously we can never take actual steps to fix things.
Sounds like you see yourself as the one outside of the car. Why are you still standing on the embankment while some drowns. What purpose does your concern serve. You are bystander syndrome. Choosing an option that helps no one in this moment.
I don’t know where the fuck you got that idea from. I’m certainly drowning.
Good thing no one’s being asked, it’s just happening.
To quote James Baldwin in 1982.
What is it you wanted me to reconcile myself to? I was born here, almost 60 years ago. I’m not going to live another 60 years. You always told me ‘It takes time.’ It’s taken my father’s time, my mother’s time, my uncle’s time, my brothers’ and my sisters’ time. How much time do you want for your progress?"
Everyone keeps posting bullshit like this saying how the system needs to be overthrown, but the portion of people posting about what actual organising efforts they’ve done is far too low in comparison. Oh, wow, very smart, a meme about how the system doesn’t work for most people. As if nobody knew that already.
It is one thing to post memes to make yourself seem smart and merely fantasize about a revolution. It’s quite another to actually work to start one.
As if nobody knew that already.
Are you serious right now? Are you aware of just how many people on the Lemmyverse have been arguing that lesser evil voting is not only the only moral choice but a moral choice that has a real impact?
There are so many people who are not actually aware that the system is beyond repair, that believe voting is somehow outside the system that is broken and can be used to repair it.
We need to break the fantasy that keeps people pacified and trapped. We need people to stop fighting about electoralism all together because they have realized it is fundamentally incapable of solving any of the problems they see.
And yet many of those people, as far as I can tell from snippets online, spend their days financially supporting the system. They buy daily from billionaires because doing anything else takes work. Starving the billionaires would be a good first step but people don’t want the trouble to go without cellphones, gas, fast food, gaming, Starbucks, etc.
“You say life is bad and yet you are alive, how curious!”
They are giving our tax dollars to billionaires. If you pay any taxes at all you support them! Ffs if they put you in jail for being a homeless vagrant get will force you into labor that fucking pays the billionaires!
That’s also a fantasy. There is absolutely no evidence that the masses can starve out the ruling class. It has never been done. Boycotts do not work because they starve the rulers, they work because they quantity the ability to organize quicklynand thoroughly. A single boycott in a single city of a single store is enough to demonstrate the ability to organize and the ruling class will react not because they get starved out but because they know the real threat is an organized working class.
Not buying coffee will do about as much as voting will.
A lot of neo-liberal types thinking it’s a viable voting strategy.
I don’t think there’s no way forward short of revolution yet, but I think your criticism is overly harsh. The first step toward change is recognizing that there is a problem and assessing the magnitude of the problem. Most normal people are still grappling with this step, so expressing the facts (and your opinions) about the problem and need for a solution is important for convincing others.
The next, and assuredly harder, step is coming up with an effective and lasting solution. A realistic solution depends on widespread support, so you can’t really jump to this step without knowing what sort of support you have behind your cause.
Support is building for change, but there’s still enormous value in these sort of posts. Making calls for change seem like a normal thing that normal people do will make actual change more likely to happen and stick.
Edit: wording
the portion of people posting about what actual organising efforts they’ve done is far too low
What is there to even say about it that doesn’t make you a target? Memes are easy and entertaining; writing about your organizing efforts is less so. I used to make memes about that stuff but the more involved I got the less it made sense to talk about it on Lemmy.
It’s best to keep such efforts quietly done and not broadcast them all out. Because one of the chief things with organization, especially now, is arming up.
💯
What politicians want us to believe:
Voting: changes the system
Doing politics: it’s for professionals
How it really works:
Voting: the possibility to kick bad persons out
Doing politics: changes the system
There are safeguards in place to prevent change
Only locally, at least here in the US.
Nationally you have no power politically unless you’re a billionaire or available for purchase by a billionaire. Thankfully, at least locally, good things are still possible.
HARDCORE! INCREMENTAL CHANGE!!!
Another “both sides” post trying to trick gullible people into thinking that not voting will really show “the system”.
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but just by existing you too are part of “the system”, and not voting just puts you in this gray group below while you let other people decide, just like they want.
What has voting for the fascist pigs gotten you other than more poverty, more homelessness, more war, more debt, less freedom, more oppression?
Several studies have shown voting does not influence policy or politicians.
Can you link to those studies?
vote green 🤷♀️
OMG the main comments are disappearing. Can’t understand what people are arguing anymore.
Disappearing because they keep arguing in favor of the people that’s caused our current situations
Because this community knows they can’t argue their positions on the merits.
If you really want a com where rule breaking comments aren’t removed, you’ll have to make it yourself.
Did I say I want that? I just said you can’t defend your positions on the merits. I was simply describing the situation, which explains the odd “rules.”
God forbid we want a com where we don’t have to refute the same bad faith liberal bullshit ten thousand times over.
You think anyone who argues with you doesn’t believe what they themselves are putting forward? Because that’s what “bad faith” means; it’s not just a buzzword that is synonymous with “wrong.” That’s a pretty self-serving view. One that would be easily demolished if you ever allowed the real world to penetrate your bubble, even once, much less ten thousand times.
No, that isn’t what bad faith means.
One that would be easily demolished if you ever allowed the real world to penetrate your bubble, even once, much less ten thousand times.
Given that I have engaged with it extensively, no it wouldn’t.
If arguing points you don’t believe in isn’t arguing in bad faith, then what is? Making points you don’t agree with?
I love my daily dose of election interference :) the only way Republicans can stay in office is if people don’t vote.
In this context “not voting because it doesn’t matter” would be sitting in the car until you drown
Intrinsic to this sentiment is the classic false dichotomy logical fallacy. Saving yourself and voting for less destructive leaders (who aren’t starting new wars, and threatening your allies) are not mutually exclusive acts. So while you’re busy saving yourself, you should still be doing what you can to reduce the harm of the current system.
In the words of James Baldwin, “how much time do you want for your progress?”
Well done on the downvote, and a very mature response. You think you’ve got a revolution organised before the next elections, do you?
What a whiny baby
This is how I feel when it comes to climate change especially. The other issues are important, but the difference between getting M4A now and later is the people it can’t help now. That’s still important, but with climate change we’re hurtling towards a disaster we won’t be able to pull back from if we keep waiting. Every time we get a Dem where the best they can do is maybe undo some of the damage the Reps caused I just feel such despair.
We need stakeholder focus. Unless you’re actually worried about workers, consumers, and those environmentally impacted by the impacts of our economic system, I don’t care about what any politician has to say. - me, a stakeholder socialist.
More like, one guy is actively pushing you down further into the dark water, another guy shows up and tells you “say the word, and I’ll fight/jail this fucker so we can finally invest in infrastructure/healthcare/people.”
Can’t imagine why so many comments are being deleted. Only a fascist would have to resort to censoring people.
So you’re upset that a moderated forum is being moderated? Lmao.
I got their last account banned for DM harassment and now he’s doing the same thing again. Whenever liberals are told no, they cry like petulant children at the top of their lungs.
This community belongs in hexbear or lemmy.ml
This community belongs exactly where it is. If you are uncomfortable with your echo chamber being disrupted you need to question your priorities.
What echo chamber? You guys are free to spout your bullshit in pretty much every other community. It’s just your community that deletes comments and bans people on ideogoligal grounds. A trait you share with hexbear and ml communities, thus my comment.
If your ideological grounds turns a blind eye to genocide and enabling our current level of fascism, you do not have a moral ground to stand on and should be silenced
