Summary
A father whose unvaccinated six-year-old daughter became the first U.S. measles death in 10 years remains steadfast in his anti-vaccine beliefs.
The Mennonite man from Seminole, Texas told The Atlantic, “The vaccination has stuff we don’t trust,” maintaining that measles is normal despite its near-eradication through vaccination.
His stance echoes claims by HHS Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr., who initially downplayed the current North American outbreak before changing his position under scrutiny.
Despite his daughter’s death, the father stated, “Everybody has to die.”
It takes a special kind of crazy to say vaccines have untrustworthy ingredients over the dead body of your unvaccinated child.
Mennonite man
Ah… right okay.
Ah yes, the Electric Amish.
Haha, never heard that one, and I grew up in an area that had a lot of both. 🤣
I was always amused by some of the stuff that Amish would do - like buying a freezer for an “English” neighbor, as an example. Or sometimes borrowing/renting someone else’s tractor and then running them at night? Are you hiding these behaviors from your god, or just from other people?
Lots of crazy beliefs out there. Look into eruvs for Orthodox Jews or how they pay “gentiles” to do things for them on holy days, or the timers that are set up…I think Religulous showed this last one. Seems like if you are going to go to these lengths to supposedly stay within compliance on some arbitrarily-determined rules from centuries ago, you might consider just, uh, discarding and revising some of these things? Because an omniscient being is going to see right through these clever legalisms…
There’s an expression: “build a hedge around the Torah,” referring to the web of extra strictures beyond the basic Commandments, that exist solely because they know people will finagle ways around them. The idea being that by breaking those rules they’ll still be protected from breaking the big ones. Of course it just means that more obedient people live restricted lives, and holier-than-thou people smugly keep stupid rules while still being cruel and evil to the core. And cheaters gonna cheat.
Even the first 5 commandments seem to be coming from a place of narcissism for an omnipotent being - you worship me and only me, don’t worship anything else, including idols and graven images, and don’t use my name the wrong way. Oh, and make sure you keep my special day…this has what to do with any kind of morality?
The rest are reasonable things that could be derived w/o any appeal to mythology - don’t kill, steal, lie, cheat on your spouse and covet another’s possessions.
I will never understand when someone from one of the Abrahamic religions tells me that without religion, people have no foundation in morality [1]. The very core set they most reference are about 50% irrelevant to morality, the other 50% are something every society puts in place and they don’t need Jehovah to derive these rules; they are rather obviously necessary to a functioning society - although that last one our entire system is set up to almost force people to covet things and other people all the time, so that’s rather ironic.
As for all the other stuff - the various rules and rituals - that people tend to build up around the three main Abrahamic religions…a lot of it truly does make me scratch my head.
[1] I just saw one of those magamaniacs arguing for that with Sam Seder. That video was excruciating by the way, but I did power through most of it.
That was funny. I’ll have to reuse that one 🙂
We gonna rock down to, Electric Amish Avenue.
Ha, I got interested in researching what exactly Mennonites are, and funnily, the German Wikipedia article has, in its very introduction, this disclaimer:
In den Medien gibt es immer wieder Berichte über Mennoniten in Nord- oder Südamerika, die einen sehr konservativen bis weltabgewandten Lebensstil pflegen und die in der Regel einen deutschen Hintergrund haben. Diese Gruppen stellen jedoch nur einen kleinen Ausschnitt aus dem mennonitischen Spektrum dar, in dem es auch viele modernere, angepasstere und liberalere Gemeinschaften sowie viele andere ethnische Zugehörigkeiten gibt.
Translation by me:
“In the media, there are regular reports about Mennonites in North- or South America, who have a very conservative or even withdrawn lifestyle, who usually have German ancestry. These groups are, however, only a small section of the whole Mennonite spectrum, in which there are also many more modern, more adjusted and more liberal communities, as well as many other ethnicities.”
Seems like your American Mennonite exiles are making the rest of the Mennonite world defensive.
I mean, that’s just the history of the US anyway. Remember, the puritans were “escaping” “persecution” for there religious beliefs from Europe. Those beliefs were so incredibly strict, conservative, and restrictive that no one wanted those nut jobs around. Oh, look, 250 years later and their descendants are still afraid of a nipple.
Untrustworthy ingredients:
The measles virus, but very slightly modified so it won’t kill you.
The uneducated will kill us all.
Don’t you know that vaccines are made out of mercury and dead babies? Wake up sheeple!
Don’t you know that vaccines are made out of mercury
Some childhood vaccines contained thimerosal which is a mercury compound as a preservative prior to 2001, some other drugs still use it and it’s very probably harmless but technically any drug containing thimerosal contains mercury.
and dead babies?
Is the common measles vaccine in the US one of the ones that is developed using a cell line originated from an aborted fetus? Like it doesn’t contain any fetal cells in the final product, but technically it wouldn’t be entirely a lie to say it’s made from a dead baby (without getting clinical and drawing a developmental line before which it’s not a “baby” per se), since the media it is grown it is a cell line descended from one…
Kind of like how there are skin treatments made from circumcised foreskins - it doesn’t actually contain foreskin, but it contains a compound extracted from cell lines produced from infant foreskin removed during circumcision, because that’s the easiest way to legally get baby skin. Usually they’ll refer to containing CTFG or epidermal growth factors or something along those lines.
Translation: my beliefs mean more to me than my dead child ever could.
He can contort himself with the knowledge that he actually pulled off the sacrifice of Abraham.
Believing in a God that even threatens your child with eternal torture… and still willingly worshipping him without qualms… Pretty much says it all.
It comes from a selfish mindset. Yes, you’re threatened, but you’re also promised with reward. It becomes a deviously simple equation at that point.
It’s the same as being mugged in a dark alley against a wall. If you believe there’s no escape, do you acquiesce despite not wanting to give money to a robber, or do you try to fight back and get shot?
Dude has to cope this hard to justify how he and his family killed their daughter.
This shit ought to be considered negligence and reason to at least remove any other kids from the home. Poor six year old was failed by her family and the state.
What a fucking idiot. He should be locked up for murder.
He seems quite content with his daughter dying as long as he doesn’t get tricked by the vaccine crowd. What a winner.
Well you see, the injection is Covid 5G and she would have had superpowers
Who are we kidding, this is straight up negligent murder
everybody has to die >
But not that young and not from a preventable disease.
Sadly now that she’s dead he has no choice but to defend his stance, because admitting the truth would mean being left with the knowledge that he killed his own daughter.
This is a big and good point. So how do we prevent this unrecoverable situation?
Make sure he doesn’t procreate again. Lol
Hope he told his daughter she had to die to make liberals cry
The fuck
He’s Mennonite. They don’t believe in any English medicine/science. If someone dies, it’s God’s will.
I’ll never understand the position. If a deadly disease is God’s will, then so is the vaccine which prevents it.
Mennonites have no problem using blades to cut their hair, wearing glasses when their vision is faulty, or using soap after wiping their ass. Why are they against medicine?
Because they don’t like it, and like all religious groups… if They don’t like it, then its against gods will. And if they like it, then it is gods will.
Which is why god hates vaccines, but loves child rape and wife beating, at least for these Amish-type religious communities. (and probably most of the republican party…)
It’s because you can’t control doctors.
The leaders of their community can control everything, except doctors who follow their own rules.
Rather have children die than anyone who could defy them.
There are many kinds of Mennonites. Most that I know are pretty scientific and well-educated.
big difference between Mennonites and the Amish I’m pretty sure you’re thinking of
It depends on their sect. The ones that are around where my grandparents used to live did not believe in science or technology. Seemed a lot like the Amish, but definitely were not.
Unpopular opinion: I actually respect this. It’s a personal decision not put upon anyone else, has nothing to do with political mis/disinformation, and is entirely consistent with the rest of their beliefs.
I don’t have to agree with them to respect how they choose to live their lives. Especially if they will keep their kids in seclusion if displaying symptoms and wear masks themselves when coming into town.
Maybe they’ll die, but that’s not my call to make, nor can I force them to live my way (nor do I want to).
Your premise is faulty. The dead child had their personal decision made for them. Its one thing to deny yourself medical care, its another thing entirely to deny a child medical care.
yeah the kid 100% had their dumbass parent’s decision ‘put upon’ them…how this is anything other than child abuse/manslaughter is beyond me - whether they’re in a fringe religious group or not, they are still killing people that didn’t have a real say in that outcome.
Do, ingest or smoke whatever the hell you want. Bring a kid into it and that’s a whole different ballgame. PD tends to get involved, for better or worse
It’s a personal decision not put upon anyone else
Except the dead kid
Yes there is that. It’s a tricky one too bc likely if you were to ask the kid, they would consent to whatever the family says to do. On the other hand, it’s definitely not “informed consent”.
Then again, I choose not to become thought police, so long as the parents themselves give informed consent. The alternative would be to take the child away from their parents, which is also a bad outcome.
Like I said, it’s “tricky”.
Strong disagree. I’m not talking about thought policing, I’m talking about punishing actual decisions that directly lead to the death of a child. People can think and say what they want about vaccines. But when their decision to not get their kid vaccinated directly leads to that kid’s death, that crime leaves the realm of thought.
We as a society don’t hesitate to take children away from parents who beat them, or punish parents who kill them by a malnutrition, and we go rabid over hot cars. These aren’t thought crimes, they are physical actions that physically harm children, and they deserve punishment.
I’m not into being supportive of people that want to live in the 1500s for dumb reasons.
1500’s? The measles vaccine was first developed in 1963. The MMR vaccine came out in 1971.
I’m sorry your struggling with my statement. Do you need help figuring out how >before< works?
what do you mean “not put on anyone else”? you think if it’s a personal decision the disease they catch becomes respectful and tries not to infect vulnerable people around them? yes it is put upon everyone else.
and that’s for adults. in this case the decision was put upon the poor little girl who needed them to shield her from the most basic preventable ailments. what other personal decision would you respect? “yeah she ran around with that kitchen knife but we decided not to interfere with god’s will.” wow parents, at least she only hurt herself with that knife, good job on not stabbing other children with it.
Except herd immunity is actually important.
These people tend to live apart from society. And I did say:
Especially if they will keep their kids in seclusion if displaying symptoms and wear masks themselves when coming into town.
To address that exact issue.
Perhaps you meant within their own society, but that’s different bc it is consensual. I am not about to force others to share my viewpoints, so long as they likewise respect mine.
“I don’t trust science so I will choose death instead”
Fucking brilliant people. No doubt they are Trump supporters.
… he’s a Mennonite, lot of them won’t even use the internal combustion engine. It’s one of those low-tech sects of Christianity like Amish.
That sounds worse. Good god.
Actually avoiding the internal combustion engine seems pretty environmentally friendly to me
Ehh, mennonites just want to keep to themselves and their communities. Obviously they’ve got some problematic beliefs, but they would never force them upon anyone or go out and try to be missionaries. Typically they don’t vote or participate in local government.
Found this interesting article about OH and PA mennonites and their opinions on the 2016 presidential election
Ya they all sound like selfish assholes who don’t want to contribute to society.
I say fuck em.
They’re anything but selfish lol. Firstly, there are sects of Mennonites that are integrated into modern society. Secondly, the communities they live in are founded on the idea of everyone helping each other. The extreme sects are allowed to waive their right to social security since their church already provides them a safety net. They don’t take gov benefits. Also, all of them have jobs, they’re not sealed off from the world. I live in Ohio and the Mennonites and Amish are frequently working on home repairs, building garages or barns, and sell a lot of goods from their little towns. These are honestly some of the nicest and hardest working people around.
American society is founded on the idea of religious freedom. If anything they’re contributing in a more positive way since they don’t seek to combine their religion and the wider world (as compared to a MAGA “Christian”)
You are religious aren’t you
Why does that matter 😭 you just instantly went to assuming my beliefs instead of saying something constructive.
All I’m trying to say is that the Mennonites aren’t as evil as you think. Please research them to form an actual opinion instead of reading one measles article and then attempting to debate me.
If you’re trying to go after religions for being a blight on society, Mennonites are the last and least influential place to look
Well, does it seem a universalizable maxim? Everyone is left alone unless they’re in the community - there having fun or getting helped or educated or w/e, you’d hope. Don’t need Common Core or anything… (there are some benefits to the super small governance structure I mean)
Apparently some are out there, wow imagine interacting with the rest of the world! :)
“The vaccination has stuff we don’t trust”
I would bet money this man could not name a single ingredient in a measles vaccine.
This is why he doesn’t trust it I guess
What about Big Mac ingredients?
There’s a song about Big Mac ingredients. No song about vaccine ingredients!
Is it a: patty, beef, and salad song or do they list all the 70+ ingredients?
Aluminum and 5G, probably.
“Stuff in it that we don’t trust.”
Better to be dead than injected with chemicals that might make you autistic? Gay? A liberal? What could possibly be in the vaccines that would be worse than your child no longer existing?
As a parent, I am so angry. How can you look at your child and be more afraid of the lesser outcomes (not that they even exist, but still) and choose death? What a failure of the parents. And shame on every single person in the media that let this bullshit spiral out of control. That poor girl.
What could possibly be in the vaccines that would be worse than your child no longer existing?
The article says the man is a Mennonite, which means he probably believes in an afterlife. In his mind his child still exists and he’ll get to see her again when he passes and spends eternity there.
I pretty firmly believe that afterlife beliefs account for a pretty significant distortion of values in people and helps explain a large number of frankly insane behaviours. Preventing deaths becomes much less important when there’s an eternal paradise waiting for you and the “real” risk is doing something that bars you from going there.
Just fuckin chuggin that koolaid
Despite his daughter’s death, the father stated, “Everybody has to die.”
Jesus, I can’t imagine being so into cult beliefs that I would have that attitude about my own kids, and actively work to make it happen sooner to boot.
I mean sure, we all will die, but it goes against the most basic biological imperative of all living things to make sure their kids outlive them. Must be some strong Koolaid. Dude needs to fuck off with that Jonestown-isque mindset.
I mean, in Judeo-Christian tradition, there’s the story of Abraham willingly sacrificing his son to Yahweh until Yahweh stops him last-second. This kind of behavior is explicitly taught: nothing is more important than sky-daddy’s whims.
You know what else has stuff I don’t trust? The fucking measles.
