Let me offer a scenario; two drunk people who wouldn’t normally go near each other spend a night together. The morning comes, regret is in the air for both parties, which of these two people is most at risk?
The correct answer is: “the one who doesn’t accuse the other on social media”.
Just remember, no-one gave any indication of gender there. It’s not really about gender at this point - it’s the fact we’ve constructed a world where a casual encounter has the potential to become the prisoner’s dilemma if it is regretted afterwards.
That’s not a world where people take risks on a date, especially if physical intimacy is on the cards. To much risk!
Most of the men in these comments have never tried speaking to a women.
For me personally, it’s a combination of factors. A non zero number of my exes lost interest after a while and it damaged my ego pretty badly. Dating Apps are a string of getting ghosted with the occasional date that leads to me paying for drinks and dinner, only to get ghosted. I’ve always been a shy person and I can only handle so much failure before I don’t want to play anymore. I missed out on the high school and college dating scenes and it shows. There is one common denominator in all of my dating failures and it’s me.
I assume years of collectively crying about it online has made something as simple and natural like dating seem like this unachievable task.
Not sure if it’s just me, but I feel like young people are less capable than ever to socialise. I thought I was a social pariah, but I don’t have shit on some people out there.
From what I’ve seen/heard, it’s not specifically the ‘crying.’ It’s a general effect from online life. Online activities are much, much easier than in person. Want to feel a connection to someone? Here’s vloggers, talking straight at you in painfully earnest tones about everything in their life. Want someone to entertain you? Here’s half a dozen companies fighting to be the one you turn to. Hungry? Forget cooking. Here’s delivery options from everywhere. Horny? Porn! It’s all a click away and you don’t even need to put on pants. If getting a need met enough to get you to tomorrow takes no effort, many people aren’t going to put in the work to get, not even a guarantee, but only a chance at something better.
I was a complete social reject in middle and high school so I don’t even know how to people but I just assumed that was just me and my miserable circumstances apparently a lot of people have the same problem?
Same, I struggle with people. I think it’s just that our kind of people are more active online.
There’s no third places where you can just loiter.
I think a big part of it is online dating is just how it’s done these days.
But yes, we’ve done a great job of over-complicating something as simple as human interaction.
I think so too. Online dating is just too convenient. It’s easier to arrange a date while playing video games than going into a club or other places you don’t like to begin with. I won’t lament those places dying out. Fuck them, never felt comfortable there.
But online dating should have made things easier not worse. Then again those sites aren’t free of blame too.
The problem with online dating sites is that they have the wrong incentive. They want to make money, not bring people together into lasting relationships.
I’m actually surprised no one has made an open source solution. Probably because of all of the complexity of moderating a system like that.
It would be a sausage fest
There’s one, Alovoa.
In stark contrast to pubs and nightclubs
pubs and nightclubs have limited tools for deciding who can interact with who, in comparison. No idea if that makes them work any better for matchmaking though.
The difference is that pubs and nightclubs are not exclusively for people who are looking to meet other people. People go there with friends, to have a good time. Not so much with online dating sites.
I’ve never understood the appeal of meeting people at bars. If you want to build a relationship with someone, why not do it with someone you already know? Ask out a coworker or classmate or something. Why approach random people in bars purely based on their appearance?
Expanding your pool of potential mates increases the chance of finding a mate.
Because there is a very real sentiment called “Don’t shit where you eat.” I learned it the hard way in two different workplaces. In the first one, we broke up and it ruined the work environment. In the second, the ‘no’ was expanded to HR complaints and lawsuits, again ruining the work environment. Knowing someone has (or had) romantic interest in you can be a pain, and it can definitely blow up a working relationship.
Because it’s a social environment. You don’t go purely on appearance usually, you see someone interesting, start chatting, maybe you flirt a bit and if the vibes are right you move forward. If anything it’s far less appearance focused than the apps where it’s a picture and a bio and not interaction.
As for why not coworkers and classmates and such, it’s fine if flirtation is happening. But to a certain degree it’s shitting where you eat. People have professional and to a lesser degree academic personas that are less who they really are than their social personas.
Pubs make just as much money if you’re in a relationship or not. The motivation is to sell you alcohol they don’t care about your relationship status.
Fair point.
Also, I agree the profit incentive is a huge problem.
I started dating my wife when we were both in high school so I’m lucky that I never had to try to start dating in my 20s. But when I was in high school asking out a girl was as simple as walking up and saying “do you want to go out with me?”
I asked out girls that I KNEW there was a 99% chance they’d say no, but I asked anyways. The worst they ever said was “no”. Nobody ever laughed in my face or told all their friends or spread rumors about me, they just said no thank you and I moved on.
This was like 2009-2013 mind you; I think young people are a lot more cruel now than they were then.
Hopefully you have the same luck after your first divorce.
Bruh why would you wish something like that on someone
Not a wish, just statistics. You have a higher chance of getting divorced than staying together.
That statistic applies to all marriages and not to first marriages, also iirc it was only for a few years. Divorce rates have been on a generally downward trajectory for quite a while
That makes sense. A lot of bad marriages were only held together by divorce being illegal and they all flew apart at once. Then things have slowed to a more natural base rate
There’s also a lot less pressure to marry early or at all. Like, I’m married because I love my wife and wanted to marry her. Had I been pressured to marry younger I probably wouldn’t’ve met her and may have resented being pressured in before I was ready.
Lots of people married right put of high school so they could bang and now they’re stuck together. Still happens in really religious communities
That is absolutely not true, it’s just made up pop statistics spread by misanthropes that misses the nuances of the data
First two times are just luck!
Nobody ever laughed in my face or told all their friends or spread rumors about me, they just said no thank you and I moved on.
Lucky you, I asked a girl out once in HS, got denied, afterwards she and her friends would often look at me and giggle during classes or breaks and avoid any contact with me. Later, through a friend, I learned they came up with the nickname “priest” for me (as in catholic priest, who has to vow for celibacy), as that was the “obvious career choice” for me
Nobody ever laughed in my face or told all their friends or spread rumors about me, they just said no thank you and I moved on.
I was in college by the time you were in high school, and I totally had friends who had that happen. I don’t know if kids are more cruel now or if you had an exceptionally kind group of peers.
Okay, they were laughed at. Then what? Did the guy blow it off and try with someone else, or never try again? It’s not how many times you get knocked down…
Get knocked down 10+ times and you just don’t get back up again.
It’s because n=1 in either case doesn’t speak for the average or general picture of what happens. Both your posts are just anecdotes.
I’m their age and I’ve seen it observed that that time block was about the nicest high schoolers have ever been.
I was in High School in '93-'96. I graduated a year early. The kids were, if anything, worse back then. Y’all are much more empathetic over all, than the kids I went to HS and University with.
Because we were raised by Boomers, the least empathetic generation in modern history.
The inertia of fucking Boomers is an unwelcome gift that won’t go away for years to come.
It’s the 1% vs the working class, not generation vs generation.
I think young people are a lot more cruel now than they were then.
Its more of a human thing actually. I always find anti bullying measures kind of a waste of time. Adults will bully you way more. It just isn’t a swirly.
it’s making you fill out an application on a job prospects website even though the info is on the resume.
It’s every month when we pay rent.
It’s every paycheck we receive that doesn’t include our surplus labor value.
It’s a overdraft fee from your bank.
It’s ComcastXfinity purchasing your local government and ensuring you have no alternatives for an ISP.
It’s the “unprecedented call volume” you wait through that happens because the customer service phone line is purposely understaffed.
It’s your health insurance denying your claim.
It’s everywhere. Just because we hide it behind a curtain of the economic system doesn’t mean it changes the nature of these interactions.
Besides, don’t you want your kid to be successful? Bullies are successful as fuck. Every parent should be teaching their child to be the biggest asshole douchebag bully ever.
Young people were every fucking bit as cruel back then. Source: same age bracket as you and was bullied nearly to suicide
People say kids these days are somewhat nicer than generations past.
+1. In addition, schools frequently side with the bully because it is easier to deal with a victim’s parents than a bully’s parents.
Also bullying is an informal form of social control they don’t have to do themselves nor take responsibly for unless it involves serious physical violence.
Trash social media has connected the worst sort of people and given them a platform to share their toxic traits.
So cruel, but uncreative people now have wider options to be shitty.
People used to “socialize” in person. We had nightclubs, bars, parties, dances. Young people gathered and met—in person. That doesn’t seem to happen anymore. Why?? The allure of nightclubs was live bands… too expensive now. Bars?… too expensive now outside of special occasions. Dances? Not sure what happened there… too expensive to rent a hall and hire music? And parties? Not sure about that either.
I don’t really see a good time in dating strangers, so bars and speed dating are unappealing. Same for dating apps. I’d rather have an outing with someone who I am familiar with and already jive with as a friend.
I don’t think that these stats really matter that much because I already know that I’m not represented in these stats. That’s obviously a biased view, but I don’t think it’s necessarily a incorrect for being biased.
Same as it ever was, except dating is somehow seen as a right now.
Maybe if those young men wash, socialise and leave their rooms this wouldn’t be a “crisis”.
bad take
Honestly, I get it’s a free text, but this is pretty easily explained. First off: dating is fucking expensive, and unfortunately standard gender roles means the dude foots the bill most of the time. Yes times are changing, but that’s still pretty standard. Pair that with the fact that dudes usually have to make the first move (again, old gender standards) and the fact that social media adds another layer of risk of being ridiculed or making someone viral because they were ‘crimge’ or ‘gave the girl the ick’ and it’s a pretty stacked deck. Hell, point one is such a strong weigh in that it’s enough to explain all of it. People are more broke than ever, and if dating by default involves going out, well guess that date isn’t going to happen.
Agreed. Cost of living and wealth inequality are getting so bad it’s breaking society. We see it everywhere and it’s weird to prioritize non economic explanations.
Although hetero dating is just total bs, speaking as a queer gal. All that old cruft is rotten and it’s gotta go
I recently ended a 6 year relationship. I’m not going to settle down with anyone again unless they have their own stuff going on like a career and goals. I think a lot of women expect men to manage all the finances, set goals, plan vacations and provide stability but they don’t want to do the traditional gender role stuff like cooking and cleaning or making a home. So what’s the point? Why make someone else’s life easier if they don’t do the same for you? had a son young(I was 19 when I had him) and he’s 11 now, so it’s not like I’m dreaming of starting a family. Most women bring nothing to the table. And if you’re lucky enough like me to have a good income, house, car, etc… you realize a lot of things are easier living alone.
Women want the princess treatment but don’t know how to act like a princess. Beyond that, sex isn’t all it’s hyped up to be. I know I sound like a redpill incel but dating shouldn’t be a priority for anyone. What’s the rush? Don’t fall for the first thing you see, make sure they’re worth it first.
Re: “sex isn’t all it’s hyped up to be.” Sex with someone you love is the best thing.
Have you actually tried taking unrepentant time off, where you have no work or social obligations, and grabbing unhealthy snacks and drinks, curling up with a good game, and zoning out of reality for hours or days at a time?
Sex is nice and all, and we’re hard wired to like it more than most activities, but it does not hold a single candle to unrepentant free time when you’re not used to said free time.
What’s the rush?
I would guess the rush is that you would have someone to split your crippling living expenses with.
If you decide to date again, you should consider dating liberal women. The only women I have known who are like you describe are conservative(and I have met one or two who expect the princess treatment and then don’t deliver on the prince treatment!). I know conservative men who expect traditional roles, and I know conservative men who expect to split the bills and say they’ll split the housework but then the woman ends up doing all the housework anyway. The women in that situation end up feeling like you: if I’m doing the housework AND working, this is easier on my own!
In my liberal circles things seem to be a bit more evenly split, and both partners are often more independent.
It seems like you’re happy on your own though, so you’re doing the right thing by removing yourself from the dating pool! Maybe you’ll find someone independent who will be a good match naturally, but I can’t imagine a woman would want to work and split the housework with someone who has your attitude (“most women are bad and not worth having around”) so you might need to change that if you do decide to get back into dating. I can’t connect on what you mean on sex not being the best thing in the world and the literal purpose of life, but I do know my husband felt like you on that front before he met me. He thought people were just exaggerating on how good it is. Maybe, like him, you just haven’t met the right match there either? It’s not like I’m even that good in bed, if anything I’m a bit of a selfish lover. It’s just that we’re a good fit together. Good luck, man. I hope you find the right fit and realize men and women are equally selfish and equally selfless.
Controversial opinion, but I believe anesthesia is even better than sex. If you’re ever been put under for surgery, you know what I’m talking about.
And they say that DMT can top even that. Only problem is that you have to take a trip outside the US to get it.
Oh my God! Someone else that enjoys being put under! I wouldn’t say it is quite pleasurable, but definitely a fun experience. It’s like time travel. You remember them telling you to count down from ten, you get to 7-6 and then BAM, you are waking up after the operation is done. I’ve had 3 surgeries and they have all been pretty fun experiences, but to be fair, I’ve never had complications and non of them were life threatening.
I get there’s a bit of biterness here, but speaking as an older millennial this was my experience as well. Feminism created a weird gap of women becoming strong and independent, but with some meant ‘im not going to do traditional fem, but expect you to do traditional man’ with no compromise. I ended up finding a wonderful woman and we both split everything, but it took me 20 years.
I went out on a first date with this woman recently and we just split the bill 50/50. It was a refreshing change of scenery. I think that should be standard so that nobody has any expectations on either side. As time goes on you can figure out how to allocate cash flow but first dates should never be 100% on one gender, unless one of them are rich (in my opinion at least.)
First off: dating is fucking expensive, and unfortunately standard gender roles means the dude foots the bill most of the time.
Not an excuse for most Lemmy users. Most American Lemmy users make far more than the average American. I have seen Lemmy users legit bitch that they only make $80K a year. That’s more than I ever made a year in my entire working life. And I never had a problem dating.
It’s a personality issue, not a money issue.
I just don’t think people want men around.
Women don’t want to be approached in public.
Men learn this quickly.
Also that speed dating stat is totally a lie, every dating event is a sausage fest.
This is a western world problem. In other countries this isn’t as much of a problem.
My kid is almost 27, and he hasn’t been on a date since he was six. The little girl down the street, with very strange parents, asked him over for a play date.
(No, I don’t say anything to him about it. It’s none of my business.)
It’s none of my business
Isn’t it, though? I’m in my 40’s and still rely on my family for advice, and to continue to grow and develop as a person. I have a lot to learn, and I think other people’s thoughts and experiences are helpful for getting through things.
Maybe you should check in with him, make sure he isn’t feeling lonely or depressed. As long as he’s okay with it, great, but if there’s support he needs, don’t assume he can handle it all alone.
It’s giving
April – 1805.
Napoleon is master of Europe.
Only the British fleet stands before him.
Oceans are now battlefields.All the homies are improvising on the violin with their very close male friends.
In the grim darkness of the 18th Century there is only Sharpe.
Now that’s soldierin’
Men don’t want to be branded ‘creepy’ and women have constantly stated they want to be left alone. Men listened.
