Germany has recently taken a chilling new step, signalling its willingness to use political views as grounds to curb migration. Authorities are now moving to deport foreign nationals for participating in pro-Palestine actions. As I reported this week in the Intercept, four people in Berlin – three EU citizens and one US citizen – are set to be deported over their involvement in demonstrations against Israel’s war on Gaza. None of the four have been convicted of a crime, and yet the authorities are seeking to simply throw them out of the country.
The accusations against them include aggravated breach of the peace and obstruction of a police arrest. Reports from last year suggest that one of the actions they were alleged to have been involved in included breaking into a university building and threatening people with objects that could have been used as potential weapons.
But the deportation orders go further. They cite a broader list of alleged behaviours: chanting slogans such as “Free Gaza” and “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, joining road blockades (a tactic frequently used by climate activists), and calling a police officer a “fascist”. Read closely, the real charge appears to be something more basic: protest itself.
What the actual fuck is going on with humanity?
People who want extreme ‘order’ are really good at organizing and fund raising, and breaking the law and daring the rest of us to do something about it. People who like making sure everyone has rights and those rights are protected aren’t.
I am not even sure why as a trans person one wants to support an islamic-extremist and authoritarian organization like Hamas. Honestly, I dont get it.
I mean yeah I dont want to make a case of supporting the other side either. But just think would rather wants you dead, Israel, or Hamas? I think I pretty much know the answer.
Yes, you know an answer to irrelevant question. Good job
Is it irrelevant though?
Lets take it to an extreme: Imagine in Gaza there would be a Nazi regime. Nazis who hate trans people and want them dead. Nazis living there with their families, innocent children etc.
I Understand that it would be worthwhile stopping war actions on all those innocent souls, but would I actively advocate for the Nazi party ruling this imaginary Gaza strip? Certainly not.
Hence, get your act together. Support an end of the war on Gaza, support innocent people. Dont support Hamas!
Where are all the people cheering up for germany government preparing for war?
Because the Russian Federation is a belligerent nation undermining EU institutions1, carrying out acts of sabotage on EU soil2, threatening nuclear war regularly3, threatening to reconquer EU member states4, and conducting genocide in Ukraine5.
And that is not to mention that actions taken by Kremlin assets in the US and Hungary.
1: https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/01/27/russia-putin-disinformation-hybrid-warfare-europe/
4: https://www.newsweek.com/russia-zaporozhzhia-nato-invade-balitsky-1832236
What answer are you reply to? If russia is shit and conducting a genocide is it ok to support one yourself and turn fascist?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War_
Germany and europe are already armed to compete with russia and spend billions in war already.
Wat?
Germans never stopped being nazis. They just laid low until they found a new acceptable target.
Careful, your ignorance is leaking.
Explain to me how deporting people for protesting against genocide is a thing decent people do.
I was responding to your original premise, that “Germans never stopped being Nazis” - and you know it. Don’t try to feign outrage at being called out for condemning an entire country’s people (“Germans”) for the actions of a few (The Berlin Senate Administration.)
Do better, and perhaps people will earnestly engage with you for the better instead of just getting upset with you.
I was responding to your original premise, that “Germans never stopped being Nazis” - and you know it.
Germany’s post-World War II government was riddled with former Nazis
For a more than 20 years fter World War II, nearly 100 former members of Adolf Hitler’s Nazi party held high-ranking positions in the West German Justice Ministry, according to a German government report.
From 1949 to 1973, 90 of the 170 leading lawyers and judges in the then-West German Justice Ministry had been members of the Nazi Party.
Of those 90 officials, 34 had been members of the Sturmabteilung (SA), Nazi Party paramilitaries who aided Hitler’s rise and took part in Kristallnacht, a night of violence that is believed to have left 91 Jewish people dead.
…
The prevalence of former Nazi officials in the ministry allowed them to shield one another from post-war justice and to carry over some Nazi policies, like discrimination against gays, into the West German government.
One lawyer who helped craft discriminatory laws barring marriages between Jews and non-Jews during the Nazi regime held a top family-law position in the post-World War II Justice Ministry, according to The Local.
“The Nazi-era lawyers went on to cover up old injustice rather than to uncover it and thereby created new injustice,” said Heiko Maas, Germany’s justice minister who presented the report Monday, according to AFP.
The infiltration of the post-war West German government by former Nazis was not limited to the Justice Ministry. A report released late last year found that between 1949 and 1970, 54% of Interior Ministry staffers were former Nazi Party members, and that 8% of them had served in the Nazi Interior Ministry, which at one point was run by SS chief Heinrich Himmler.
Is your premise that people cannot see the errors of their ways and therefore cannot change? Or are you presenting facts in an attempt to imply that all this time there’s been a shadow Nazi government? Or…? I don’t know if you’re aware of this, but during the war years, everyone had to be a member of the Nazi party. All youth groups that weren’t official Nazi organizations were banned.
In the years between WWII and German reunification, there was an active effort to stamp out Nazi ideals in the West. Children learned in graphic detail what atrocities were committed, and many of them took those learnings to heart. To this day, spending on military in Germany, surveillance by the state, are fraught topics. German politics couldn’t be further from a 1 or 2 party system.
What was informs but doesn’t dictate what is. I have spent a lot of time in Germany, and I’m certain that in spite of the rise of AfD, Germany is the European country furthest from Nazi ideals.
The fact that it hasn’t even been a century and they’re already reverting is proof enough for me that they didn’t change.
Yeah as an american I absolutely can’t relate to the experience of people blaming an entire country for the actions of their government. Especially by europeans who always act like they’re better than us despite starting two world wars, the slave trade, and currently falling back into fascism, which they invented by the way. That could never possibly happen and I apologize for acting in retaliation for these actions which have not happened.
Nazis were installed in East and West Germany
Nazis were kept at industrial managers for West/East Germany
Nazis that weren’t punished got hired via Operation Paperclip and Operation Osoaviakhim, scottfree from the mass murder.
Nazis that escaped to Argentina eventually got influence there and back home.
I know hindsight is 20/20 but we should have arrested every single one of them until they died from old age, and let their graves be a monument to their atrocities and a public bathroom.
Much of the mentality that enabled nazi Germany stayed. I’m half romanian, half german. I’m also part jewish. My ancestors died in the Holocaust. The German love for law and order scares me. They’re overly obedient. Rarely walk out of line on serious matters. Mark my words, but someday the AfD will come to power, and they’ll make use of all the tools the liberals implemented for them (suppressing protests, deporting people, cutting funding, and so on) and no one will bat an eye. Because a law is a law and therefore it is to be followed. Hopefully I’ll manage to be far away by that time.
What mentality do you mean? The obedience? I feel like it’s more nuanced than that. Yes, following the rules everyone agreed on is lived in a rather inflexible way. If you think about it though, that’s democracy. It’s a commitment to the compromise. The unwritten contract between the majority and the minority. We recognize that the moment you start thinking “I don’t like this law, so I won’t follow it”, democracy falls apart. People here want law and order even for laws they disagree with, because collectively that means that laws they agree with will also be followed by everyone.
There are limits though. While I agree that it’s scary to see the AFD become more and more popular, I disagree with your prediction. The idea of “never again” regarding the Holocaust guides every single part of public life. There are not many Germans who would say they are proud of their country. Only every two years, when Germany plays soccer in the international leagues, flying a German flag does not feel weird. Shame for your own country. That’s what Germans think everyone expects us to feel.
Strong military? We’re watching you. Your Great-Grandfather did what? Be sorry. Proud of Germany? How dare you.
The very first words of our constitution (“Human dignity is untouchable.”) are a testament to the Holocaust. It’s an incredibly well chosen sentence that every single law is measured against. We know the entire world expects us to uphold this principle forever.
I am not arguing against the danger for democracy that the AFD poses. It’s very real. But in Germany we even have a law to actually make parties illegal that are against the constitution, most importantly the first sentence of it.
So, if Germans are obedient to the law, and the most important principle of our law makes anything even close to the Holocaust illegal, isn’t obedience a good thing then? The real question is, would Germans decide to just accept unconstitutional laws, or rather insist on upholding the constitution? I think the huge protests in the past months have made clear that many people are already standing up for the constitution. Not because they just follow rules blindly, but because they actually believe in the principles of compromise, democracy and dignity.
Yes, following the rules everyone agreed on is lived in a rather inflexible way. If you think about it though, that’s democracy.
I would say that’s a veneer of paternalism on top of a foundation of democracy.
The people’s vote is never precise. It gives broad direction to those who govern. Politicians are trusted representatives of the people to act in their best interest, but they’re not told precisely what to legislate on (unless you’re Swiss and live in a direct democracy). They can inact things which are inline with the people’s wishes, and they can get it wrong.
If the people behave as is the legislators are always right because they were placed there through a democratic process and there is never any push back, then they’ve surrendered a large part of their agency. If the people just obey rules without question, their government is now their fixed term authority figures. The government knows what is right, and the people should just follow along.
Talk to a Frenchman and he will be very clear that government serves the people. Not the other way around, and that sometimes you have to break the rules to remind those in government who is in charge. Bastille day is celebrated to make sure no one forgets.
I think Germany has the wrong mindset on this point.
Edit: I also think that “Never again” has become “Never again shall we see the Jewish persecuted” rather than “Never again shall we allow a holocaust to befall anyone”. If Germany has truly learnt the lesson they should recognise that any country can perform evil. Even those that have been wronged in the past.
Oh I think in Germany it’s actually a huge problem that no one really feels like they are represented by anyone in the government, even the party they voted for. It’s the biggest reason the AFD is so popular: People wanted an alternative to the status quo, no matter what it is. Because they feel like “die da oben” (like “they up there”) have always decided against the interests of the average guy. So actually, mistrust in the government is the cause of the AFD, not its solution.
In my comment I was actually not even thinking about the politicians, just the “majority” as in more than 50% of people. Not the current majority in parliament or anything like that.
Germany actually has a pretty big protest culture, at least I see them so regularly that it’s a very normal part of public life.
But many people are either too content with their life to complain or even be interested in something else (you could also call it lazy and ignorant tbh), or they are so disillusioned that they don’t believe they could ever change something. It’s the same in most western countries to be fair.
I absolutely agree with you about what we should do in regards to Israel, and I think most people in Germany actually also do. But what would happen on the international floor if Germany suddenly started saying we should arrest Israel’s top politician, stop supporting their “defense”, and openly accuse them of genocide? It’s an honest question: Do you think we could? Without the whole world scolding us to not forget our history? I personally think Germany doesn’t even have the freedom of choice in this topic, no matter what we as a country think is right.
But what would happen on the international floor if Germany suddenly started saying we should arrest Israel’s top politician,
I think telling Netenyahu that he’s safe to travel to Germany because they won’t enforce the ICJ arrest warrant is a horrendous, terrible piece of international PR. Of course Germany should arrest him if he comes to Germany. He has an arrest warrant outstanding on him to stand trial for war crimes. Since when is Germany a place for people to evade justice.
Germany should be seen to respect the rule of law. Not tell the ICJ it has no jurisdiction and harbour someone wanted on war crime charges. Let the international court take that problem away from them. It’s not on Germany to decide. That’s the courts job through due process. If he’s not guilty, let the court make that decision.
Anything else is German arrogance.
stop supporting their “defense”,
They can limit their support to only non-aggressive aspects. Don’t supply funds or weapons. Supply medical aid, infrastructure support, etc and do the same for Gaza. Be on the side of the innocents caught up in the violence.
and openly accuse them of genocide?
Friends tell friends when they’re in the wrong. Friends tell friends when they’re acting irrationally through anger, fear and hatred. This is especially true if that friend has been there themselves as they can offer a perspective others can not.
To own your history is to show you’ve learnt from it. Germany is acting more like they have a debt to repay, but there is no amount that can be repaid. You can only internalise the facts, learn the lessons and act in a way that shows that.
Again, I agree with everything above, I also think Germany is doing the wrong thing. In your last paragraph you say exactly what was my argument: Germany acts like it has a debt to repay. I can say from the perspective of a German that that is exactly what everyone here feels like is expected of us. Eternal atonement. Repaying what cannot be repaid. This has never changed since Germany lost WWII.
You have to consider that Germanys position regarding international relations is unique. The allied states gave us back our freedom not under the condition of being friends with Israel, but essentially owing a debt. Nobody ever let us forget what would happen if we “got out of line” again.
That is not only true on the level of international politics, but also in everyday life. When you travel to the US, people will straight up ask about the Nazi-Autobahn or whether you are a Nazi yourself. In Poland, people just might be a bit more unfriendly to you because of what your country did to theirs. In many places of the world you can buy “history pieces”, from SS emblems to signed copies of “Mein Kampf”. The whole world still kind of thinks of the Nazis when they talk about Germany, and if its even just 1% of what they think, it’s still there. Like, no offense taken, but I don’t know about any other country in this position. Russia, the US, Great Britain, France, even Japan or Italy. I don’t think any of these countries’ citizens get asked uncomfortable questions about their countries past when on vacation. Their children do not grow up in the knowledge that they will have to bear the sins of their country, and put them on their children too.
So, Germany accepted this role, these expectations, and does its best to keep to that. Nobody here thinks it would be internationally accepted if we “emancipated” ourselves from this duty. I think many Germans want to, at least in my social bubble. But do you think we could, without any repercussions?
I think what we need is absolution, forgiveness, a new beginning with no strings attached. A real, equal friendship between Israel and Germany. Trust. Otherwise we will just stay paralyzed by our infinite moral debt. I don’t think this will happen in our lifetimes. Not with the current Israel, the current US, the current Germany.
TL;DR: I wanted to give an perspective on why Germanys position is kind of unique in this world. It is one of the biggest economies, a sovereign state, but still not free in decisions regarding Israel.
It’s amazing what articulating your thoughts properly does for the votes. Maybe OP could learn a thing or two.
„It’s not holocaust when brown people are dying”
~white people
How can Germany “deport” an EU citizen? Is there any way for them to block an EU citizen from coming back into Germany?
It can’t, municipalities and states can, and the EU law allowing for this requires showing they’re a threat to public safety (which is why it’s not a federal matter the federation doesn’t do public safety). The Berlin state government wants to expel some people, so far no other state has made similar moves, and it’s very questionable whether Berlin courts will let them do it. And then there’s federal courts. And then the ECJ.
How can Germany “deport” an EU citizen?
Have a half-dozen men with guns grab the person, shove them into the back of a squad car, drive them to a jail, make them wait in the jail until transport can be arranged, drag them to a plane, force them onto the plane, fly the plane to an Israeli-occupied territory, kick the person out of the plane into the hands of some genocidal Israeli lunatics, and leave.
Is there any way for them to block an EU citizen from coming back into Germany?
Tear up their travel documents, for starters. Sending them to a country where they are at extreme risk of permanent arrest, torture, and execution also works.
Ok so just like in America
Yeah, that’s the craziest thing. EU citizenship means you have freedom to be in any EU country. There is no “deporting” a citizen of the EU if you’re a country in the EU.
Yet here we are…
Yeah that is why “deportation” is the wrong word being used… It is an “opinion” piece from one Berlin based journalist, that obviously lacks some legal details or is trying to use a catchy headline. I especially like it when the article says the used “objects that could have been used as potential weapons”. It was fucking AXES they used and obviously the Uni employees were horrified when it happened. Not saying that is right to restrict EU citizens movement in such cases. I’d prefer a proper trial before that happens but they certainly didn’t behave very well.
In case of the US citizen I guess you could call it a deportation/expulsion.
Some translated legal background for you guys: Strictly speaking, in the case of EU citizens, this is not referred to as expulsion/deportation, but as loss of freedom of movement. ‘EU citizens entitled to freedom of movement can lose their right of residence for reasons of public order, security or health,’ according to the website of the Federal Ministry of the Interior.
Particularly stringent conditions apply to the loss of residence on grounds of public order or security. ‘There must be an actual and sufficiently serious threat to public order or security that affects a fundamental interest of society. This threat must be based on the personal behaviour of the EU citizen,’ writes the Federal Ministry of the Interior on its website.
People who do not come from the EU are referred to as deportees. This is the case here for one person. If a person from a third country jeopardises public safety and order, the free democratic basic order or other significant public interests through their stay, they can be expelled.
I’m EU citizen, I go into Germany if I so please. I’ll do it and I’ll do it again.
Germany is always on the wrong side of history.
That depends on who wins.
Let’s hope they go 0-3
The good side of history isn’t really that of police states built on violence and blood. Germany government is not alone in supporting israel, pretty much every government rooted in authority share the same values.
Every government rooted in colonial violence, genocide and land theft, supports Israel.
Germany… forever pro-genocide cvnts
Name a more dynamic duo: German 🤝 being on the wrong side of history
Bro defends a terrorist organisation that wants to eradicate an entire religion and thinks he’s on the right side.
I fucking can’t lmao.
By the IDF’s own numbers, the IDF has a worse civilian collateral damage rate than Hamas.
It really blows my mind. Masha Gessen, Nancy Fraser, Yuval Abraham, Omri Boehm, and also others not mentioned in the article. Who the fuck gave Germany the right to decide who is a good pro-Israel Jew and who is a bad anti-Israel Jew? Germany of all countries, being in the business of labelling Jewish people as acceptable and unacceptable. The fucking nerve on these people.
Here we go again, only the US is joining them this time. 🙄
