• thisisbutaname
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    19315 days ago

    Did anyone mention how the 1930 tariffs sparked a wave of retaliatory tariffs by other nations, greatly reducing international trade, pushing a natural resources poor Japan to conclude that in order to survive it needed an empire, so it invaded other countries, committing such atrocities that even Nazi Germany was like “whoa dude, chill”, which lead to their participation in WWII, Pearl Harbor and the deployment of nuclear bombs? No?

      • @merc@sh.itjust.works
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        1014 days ago

        There’s a lot of oversimplification. But the US embargo on Japan in 1940 led directly to the attack on Pearl Harbor.

        The US embargoed all oil to Japan. Japan calculated it had less than 2 years worth of oil before it ran out, so it needed to capture the Dutch East Indies (modern day Indonesia, more or less) because they were a major source of oil. The American puppet state of the Philippines was between Japan and the Dutch East Indies, so they had to deal with that somehow. Their decision was to preemptively attack Pearl Harbor and hope that they could consolidate their gains in the Pacific by the time the US was able to counter-attack.

        Japan’s actions in WWII weren’t directly about tariffs, but they were about spheres of influence, like the Greater East-Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

        A lot of Trump’s posturing seems to be about bringing back these spheres of influence. The US wants to control North America, taking over Greenland and Canada, and leave Europe to become part of the Russian sphere.

    • @Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world
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      7715 days ago

      Japan was expanding long before 1930’s. Korea, Mongolia, and parts of China were already under Japan long before 1930.

    • @Genius@lemmy.zip
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      615 days ago

      So you’re saying that Japan threw a shit fit because it wasn’t allowed to trade with other nations. Japan.

      Fucking love it.

      • @4am@lemm.ee
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        1915 days ago

        It’s also wrong on every account; Japan was already doing imperialist shit for decades and it wasn’t tariffs but oil sanctions to try to stymie their fuel supply that sent them raging.

        It wasn’t American tariffs, we didn’t fucking matter nearly as much to the world before WWII as after

  • @cosmicrookie@lemmy.world
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    12415 days ago

    The whole plan was to move production back to the US. The thing though is, that you can’t make Americans sit and sew Jeans that sell sell for $15 or assemble electronics for $6/hr

    Maybe you could 100 years ago, but there is s a reason why we trade across the world and its not because we are kind. It is because it makes companies more money.

    This will be mostly messy for the US. The rest of the world now has tarrifs on the US. But US now has tarrifs on the whole world. Any other country can look into expanding in new markets now, but the US has shut all its doors

    • @swearengen@sopuli.xyz
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      4815 days ago

      Yeah we can’t make everything.

      Not only do most of those low level factory jobs suck we simply don’t have the workers, we’re at less than 5% unemployment.

      • @shawn1122@lemm.ee
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        15 days ago

        Nor does the US need to make everything.

        The US is a service economy. It makes money through capital and intellectual property. Being the first to innovate means also having the opportunity to wedge yourself as a permanent middle man and charge people around the world to pass go.

        Think Uber eats for example. If I order food in Toronto from a Toronto based restaurant fulfilled by a courier in Toronto, 30% of my payment is going to them in silicon valley for managing that order.

        Similarly, when you purchase an app on Google or Apple store, they are collecting 30%.

        If I am in Norway purchasing a game on Steam from a Norwegian developer, you guessed it, 30% is going to Steam.

        This is America’s strength now, not making t shirts, shoes or cars entirely domesticallty.

        Most of the world was ok with paying the markup for convenience.

        Since the US have gone rogue, many are calling for an end for respect to US intellectual property. Perhaps each country should have its own Uber, app store etc so that the cut can stay within our borders.

        One case: Uber was charging 30% commission for managing rickshaw rides in India (a country with relatively low purchasing power per capita).

        It was only after domestic options like Rapido or Namma Yatri undercut them that they moved to a subscription based model, charging drivers 20 to 40 rupees daily, rather than taking an exorbitant commission of 30% per ride. To India’s credit, it has a robust IT sector located in one of its major cities (Bangalore) which helps promote competition in this case.

      • @CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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        414 days ago

        we simply don’t have the workers

        And the US is deporting a lot of it’s workforce for not being white enough.

    • @DogWater@lemmy.world
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      714 days ago

      This is the thing that makes no sense. All the thinking stops at bring jobs back to the US.

      Okay, raw material issues aside, what are these jobs?

      They are jobs that left because it was so cheap to do it overseas that it still makes financial sense to ship the product here after it’s made.

      NOONE IN THE US IS DOING THAT JOB FOR THAT MONEY HERE.

    • @Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world
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      715 days ago

      We could theoretically figure out some way to do it with automation. The problem is it would take a decade to figure out and there’s zero chance these tariffs last that long.

    • @I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world
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      215 days ago

      Oh they know that Americans won’t work at factories. That’s not their goal.

      They want to bring manufacturing back the the US, it just won’t be humans doing the manufacturing, it will be robots.

    • @explodicle@sh.itjust.works
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      115 days ago

      You can make Americans design and watch a machine that sews $15 jeans. But tariffs won’t help with that if all the machine parts are more expensive too.

  • bitofarambler
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    15 days ago

    if anyone has any questions about getting out of the country, ask away.

    I’m a long-term traveler.

    • Mearuu
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      3015 days ago

      What countries do you recommend that have the easiest visa requirements?

      • bitofarambler
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        15 days ago

        at this point, visas are very easy to get in general, but Thailand is still one of the easiest and is one of the friendliest and most affordable countries around.

        if you’re a US citizen, you have visa-free travel in Thailand for 60 days.

        if you need a visa, go to the evisa website, thaievisa.go.th, fill out the form, pay the fee, they’ll email you the visa in a couple days.

        I usually recommend Thailand or somewhere in Southeast Asia as a first destination. good food, great healthcare, cheap living, great people, beautiful environment, and they’re very used to travelers so there are local and expat support systems nationwide.

        another nice thing about Southeast asia is that there are tons of other friendly places close by.

        it’s about as easy to live there as anywhere else, but the support systems and the country being very used to travelers might make first time travelers more comfortable.

        oh PS thailand has a lot a lot of really good all you can eat buffets for 3 to 10 dollars per person.

        • WillFord27
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          1115 days ago

          Many European countries allow you to visit a maximum of 90 days within a 180 day period, so if you’re rich enough, you can technically live there half your life.

      • ℍ𝕂-𝟞𝟝
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        2215 days ago

        I’ve read in some unsubstantiated comments that the state of the authorities of Hungary is so fucked up, they barely check if you can bribe a family tree researcher to make up some BS that your grandparents were Hungarian.

        Pretend they were 1956 refugees that never had papers in the US, find some people who actually got lost in 1956 that have birth certs in Hungary - like maybe killed by the Soviets - learn some elementary Hungarian, be white, and boom, EU citizenship.

        I take no responsibility for this harebrained idea and reiterate that this is just some ridiculous thing I read back on Reddit way back when.

        • @Leavingoldhabits@lemmy.world
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          4215 days ago

          Hungary itself is leaning quite heavily into an authoritarian vibe these days. If one were to go this route, I’d recommend taking advantage of your new EU-citizen status and find permanent residence in a country with stronger democratic traditions.

          • @humanspiral@lemmy.ca
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            15 days ago

            Authoritarian

            This just means democratic results where CIA failed. Europe warmongering despots takes authoritarian views on diminishing Hungary. Hungary allows “same sex registered partnerships”. “Needing” a pride parade is supremacism. Trying for citizenship in “CIA democratic beacon EU” will get you drafted into mobile infantry to go be cannon fodder invading Russia, or selecting a nuclear strike target.

                • @spooky2092@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  314 days ago

                  What other alternative is there? Admit that your worldview is skewed by all kinds of propaganda to the point you’re detached from objective reality as desired by your party?

                  That’s just crazy talk. Just like the idea that words have meanings and you can’t just use them however you choose to devalue the meaning behind them.

      • @couch1potato@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        15 days ago

        I’m a white American that’s been living in tijuana, Mexico for the last 9.5 years. I drive north to the US to go to work every day and drive south again to go home. The Mexican border police only check maybe 5% of cars that drive from US to Mexico, and when they check me they’ve only ever checked my car registration and/or passport. It’s an extremely open border crossing when going south.

        If you wanted to actually be legal, a temporary tourist visa to visit Mexico can be purchased for about 25 usd and allows you to stay for up to 6 months inside Mexico 🤷‍♂️ and when it expires you can buy a new one.

      • @Zwiebel@feddit.org
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        15 days ago

        Cyprus sells passports, so if you have the money you can instantly become an EU citizen

      • bitofarambler
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        15 days ago

        Three big ones are:

        1. There are lots of international families, so they’ll have company, support networks and infrastructure.

        2. There are tons of safe, affordable countries with easy access to good education.

        3. Native English speakers are all but guaranteed jobs as ESL teachers, so the parents will have access to available, steady income abroad.

        A lot of people don’t know about international schools, which is where most international families send their kids.

        Other than the first two points, there are not many differences between my individual and family advice. For many families, moving from the US to a country like Thailand means safer, more affordable lives with a better quality of life.

    • @Olgratin_Magmatoe@slrpnk.net
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      515 days ago

      Any advice on how to move all my shit without it getting stolen?

      I’ve got a collection of a shit load of Legos from childhood that hold a lot of sentimental value, but it’s easily worth a shit load of money. In particular I’d be looking to move to Costa Rica. My fiance is from there, but she said stuff like that would be likely to get stolen by customs.

      • bitofarambler
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        214 days ago

        people usually ship their belongings by sea or air(ocean freight is cheaper and slower, but I’m not sure by how much with Costa Rica being so near) with a company like DHL, I’ve used them and found them to be a reliable international shipping company, FedEx and UPS are also options.

        I wouldn’t worry about customs taking your stuff, especially if you have insurance or tracking or anything like that on the ticket, and especially with a wealthier country like Costa Rica where paper trails are more important.

        I’ve actually never heard of customs taking anything legal in real life from anyone who’s shipped belongings overseas(my friend’s yak jerky got confiscated because it’s illegal to import a lot of international meat products into the US) so I personally don’t believe customs pocketing things is very common.

        Legos aren’t apparently valuable on their face and with the paper trail of receipts/documents I wouldn’t think you have to worry about anything getting lifted by customs. plus, if you add some fragile notices and insurance on there the agents responsible for transporting the packages will be a lot more careful, for sure.

        • @Olgratin_Magmatoe@slrpnk.net
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          214 days ago

          I wouldn’t worry about customs taking your stuff, especially if you have insurance or tracking or anything like that on the ticket, and especially with a wealthier country like Costa Rica where paper trails are more important.

          It’s something my fiance warned me about. Her and her family has known customs agents to take shit. Recently they tried to send some chocolates and small gifts to us here in the U.S., and about 1/3rd of the chocolate got stolen. I’m not sure which company it was with, but it is something that happens, and to my understanding is just a culturally known fact of life.

          Legos aren’t apparently valuable on their face and with the paper trail of receipts/documents I wouldn’t think you have to worry about anything getting lifted by customs.

          Sure, but by weight I’m looking at about $2k worth of misc boxes, before accounting for built sets that are in good condition with all their pieces.

          if you add some fragile notices and insurance on there the agents responsible for transporting the packages will be a lot more careful, for sure.

          I’ll have to look into this then. Thank you for the help!

  • @kingshrubb@lemmy.ml
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    7015 days ago

    There was also the McKinley Tariff of 1890 that is taxed foreign imports at almost 50% and caused increased prices and consumer backlash and lead to Democrats winning Congress in a landslide.

  • Ephera
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    6015 days ago

    There’s in general no way this can work long-term. When nations cooperate, they both benefit. If you’re the only nation not cooperating with everyone else, then everyone else will surpass you until you’re North Korea levels of yesteryear.

    • @Isthisreddit@lemmy.world
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      1714 days ago

      Looking at this through the lens of “how can the oligarchs benefit”, it makes complete sense - Strip all government assistance, remove social nets, add tariffs that will basically kill most small businesses (think also farms, mom and pop shops, etc). Lead to depression, billionaires swoop in and buy up land/homes/business for pennies on the dollar (or just basically crush small businesses to get them out of the way). One couldn’t design a better way to fuck over everyone and enrich the oligarchs

    • @790@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      114 days ago

      My macroecon book, which was written by a guy from the Bush administration, hit us over the head with that concept.

      It’s strange to thing that he’d be considered a pariah by his party’s leadership now.

  • crazyhotpasta
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    5515 days ago

    I’d like to see U.S become so weak that Natives are able to reclaim their land. Imagine them scalp those nazi regime supporting mfers. Brings a happy tear in my eye.

    • SharkEatingBreakfast
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      15 days ago

      I theorize that this is why most/all US leaders have been pro-Israel. Because if they were anything else, the native population would be like “hey, so what about us and our stolen lands?” and US leaders will absolutely not deal with that.

      • @tetris11@lemmy.ml
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        3915 days ago

        I’m pretty sure it’s the money. If minority groups were lobbying just as hard to both parties, the populist leaders would switch.

      • @I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world
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        1015 days ago

        300 years of the US not giving a shit about the native population or about appearing hypocritical towards them would argue with your theory.

        There’s not a single US leader who worries what Native Americans would say if they turned against Israel. They would just ignore them like they always have.

      • crazyhotpasta
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        815 days ago

        Yes, that! Also for me U.S seems to think that somehow everyone from Middle-East is a terrorist, even though that they are the worst terrorists themselves alongside Russia and Israel.

  • @Colloidal@programming.dev
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    5115 days ago

    If I recall my history right, the 1929 stock market collapse precipitated the Great Depression, and the tariffs were a (misguided) attempt at trying to set the economy straight.

  • @DarkFuture@lemmy.world
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    4614 days ago

    This is what happens when a populace isn’t properly educated.

    Prepare for this country to be on a downward slope for the rest of our lives. That’s the most likely future for us.

  • @CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world
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    15 days ago

    Thanks for the insight, stacy! By the way, why are you still posting on a nazi platform? Oh for internet points? Cool, cool.

    Edit: Damn, there’s more nazis on Lemmy than I thought.

    • SkaveRat
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      3615 days ago

      Because that’s the platform that needs to hear it

      Circlejerk preaching to the choir is fun, but doesn’t reach the people who need to hear it

    • @WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world
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      1615 days ago

      Edit: Damn, there’s more nazis on Lemmy than I thought.

      As a rule, Lemmings are steadfastly against any course of action that might make an actual difference. They’ll post about guillotines and green Mario until the cows come home, since no one actually expects them to act on that sort of thing, but whenever anyone suggests anything that a typical person could actually do it’s nothing but excuses.

      • @CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world
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        1315 days ago

        It appears the extent of their participation is spewing vitriol and clicking downvote buttons. lol

        Meanwhile, I’m going to a capital protest tomorrow. Those of you doing things, KEEP RESISTING THESE FUCKS.

      • @theneverfox@pawb.social
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        414 days ago

        It’s cause you’re over at lemmy.world

        It’s the largest, and therefore has the most mainstream people, who tend to be some flavor of liberal

        In theory, joining any server gets you the whole federation experience… In practice, your home server will greatly affect discovery and shape what kind of people you encounter most

  • @scaredoftrumpwinning@lemmy.world
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    3115 days ago

    Third time is a charm. No seriously this unhinged president will be the destruction of the nation as the Democrats predicted. It was fun while it lasted but since I’m not rich I’m screwed.

  • Spaniard
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    2615 days ago

    How did 1930 one caused a depression when we were in the 29’ crack?

  • @HappySkullsplitter@lemmy.world
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    Maybe depression is the goal along with the whole gamut of initiatives whose only logical aggregate result would be the weakening of the United States

    Seems fairly easy to accomplish when an entire political party’s ideology is built upon a foreign power’s propaganda

    • @chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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      514 days ago

      Look at the formula they’re using to calculate the tariffs. They are not playing 4D chess. They should be back in elementary school to learn how math works, not running a country!

    • @Manalith@midwest.social
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      115 days ago

      They like to cause a depression, wait long enough for everyone to forget that they caused the depression, let the regime change once or twice, then fix the issue to remind you that you need them. It’s a lot like the whole “pay me to ensure you don’t have an unfortunate accident” where then if you don’t pay they can cause the unfortunate accident.

      • @WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world
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        115 days ago

        If they cause a depression then the next regime change will be away from the United States. The USA got into its dominant position because it was the only major power left standing after World War II and has kept it since then through inertia. If that inertia is disrupted it’s not coming back.

  • @Treczoks@lemmy.world
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    914 days ago

    The definition of stupidity is to try things that failed in the past again in the hope to get a better result.