Yeah, Google just destroyed 815 acres of forest for a new data centre in Finland without permission. It hasn’t gone down well.
Especially not with Finns. They like their forest, about 3/4 of the population goes and disappears into the forest during summer holidays.
And then, they are also quite strict on The Rules Being Followed To Maintain Polite Society, so a corporation both destroying forest and breaking The Rules, well, that’s not gonna end well.
Do they also have those lovely cabins you can rent everywhere, like in Norway? You’d never see my ass (except for work) if I lived there.
Every week I learn something about the nords that I like. I need to look at work visa options.
What is the cost of replanting 815 acres of forest? I hope we find out.
The Finnish government sold them that land. They knew exactly what Google was going to do with it.
doesn’t matter. there are laws that must be followed. they broke the law, openly, and someone found out and told people. now the politicians that sold the land have piss on their face and have to do something about it or risk being replaced.
and the written punishment is a fine, right? If they pay it is there any issue?
Petteri Orpo, said attracting investment was a “top priority” and “the value of the data economy extends far beyond direct investment”.
X doubt.
They probably gave them deals on electricity too. The Fins are getting nothing in return. Wow.
All that means is that the bribes will have to be bigger. It’s the socialism of the wealthy.
Turns out a business plan consisting of »build a trillion dollars of server farms now, figure out who pays later« gets slightly less charming once the lenders ask for actual numbers. The AI industry wanted to disrupt every profession except the ancient art of checking whether the math works.
As someone on the inside, I can assure you that the buyers put down money up front for a specified product and delivery date. There is no speculation involved. They line up to give us money. Unless Microsoft et al. goes bankrupt, we keep building.
It’s not an issue of prediction, or prophesy, it’s that all the available information right now looks like a classic bubble. could it find profitably? idk. is it profitable? No. is there billions or trillions in debt changing hands too fast for anyone to keep track of? yes. is someone selling somke? most likely these are the situations in which con artists thrive. probably not everyone is intending to sell smoke. but not all of this is going to work out, some may come out on top, but some will fall, and that will be a bubble.
Agreed.
Going a step further, the builders that build with environmental and community concerns first are more likely to endure. My company does exactly that.
FTA:
Drawing on data from regulatory intelligence outfit RegLayer, the FT reports that 47 large data center projects have already fallen through this year. Analysts at the equity research firm Bernstein only believe that about 35 percent of planned facilities are feasible.
Would you dispute these claims, based on your experience?
Not at all. Most builders are clueless. They think that because they have money, they can solve any problems.
Edit: Adding that site selection is HARD. Every developer with a spare farm plot wants in on the action. Most are completely inappropriate.
Sure, Jan.
If we are not going to have honest discussion, why participate? Lemmy should be better.
So a post making claims against all visible evidence with no proof for any of it is “honest discussion”?
You ask “why believe me?” I ask " why take you seriously?" And we get nowhere.
The popular opinion is framed in view of the worst offenders. That gets clicks. My daily experience shows me that:
- one urinal in my building uses more water in a day than the datacenter does in a year.
- our generators run at less than 65 dB at full tilt at a distance of 30 feet. They are only run during utility outages - and monthly tests for 10 minutes.
- we build in corporate parks and remote sites with surplus power.
- the power substation we paid for and built delivers 20 MW back to the community. We added capacity to the local area on our dime.
However, others are not like us. Musk runs gas turbines for primary power. MS uses open- loop cooling. They get the headlines. We don’t. Our business is based on responsible behavior. But we get painted with the same brush.
Ok, even assuming all that is true (just saying it doesnt make it so) none of it has anything to do with the inherent unprofitability of AI. Anthropic alone is reporting an $80 billion loss for the year. Last I heard the industry as a whole needs to make a few trillion dollars just to break even. Regardless of how efficient or not your particular data center may be, it’s not going to fill that gap.
Agreed. Oai, Anthro, etc don’t necessarily have paths forward. But a LOT of folks want their hands on the results. Perhaps real open sw will rise to put them under and no one will need to pay for the models. But they will have to pay for the hardware to run it. And that’s pricey. And we get paid up front.
lmao, which department do you work in that you’re on lemmy right now? Mail, or maybe food service?
Operations. DC manager.
So, HR? I would delete your location, btw. Don’t out yourself.
There are more than a dozen datacenters within 30 minutes of my home.
So, many are getting blocked and the AI bubble is going to pop in the next few years. Right now, this is where we stand. Notice, most are getting built where there is a lack of cool weather and water. Many states are starting to fight them because of this.
Honestly, I am confused by the rushed build out. If I was wealthy, I would be trying to ensure that my wealth isn’t being burned away for nothing. Having properly placed and authorized data centers would help protect my investment.
The Dotcom bubble and the 2008 housing crisis are still in living memory. Are the wealthy just that unaware - or worse, uncaring - about how things could play out? 🤨
Isn’t this also how the dot-com bubble sort of happened?
This one has everyone’s retirement money tied into it.
All of these companies are not publicly traded. The “big ones” that build the data centers will lose a lot of value but will continue to exist.
The LLM companies deserve to & should go under.
Ah, let me introduce you to my friend “Sytemic Risk”
The next one will be one same. Humans don’t learn from mistakes.
The AI bust will be an order of magnitude worse. The money involved is staggering. AI is almost all of America’s GPD and a monster chunk of stock valuation.
Yep, and like the dot-com bubble, businesses have tied themselves too closely with AI to the point it’ll be harder to backtrack and pull out than with the dot-com boom. At least word of mouth and having a website were easily separable from the business end. Having a website and integrating AI into your website and your business is a whole different story.
Yes, and every bubble before, since, and after.
Dibs on being early to the next tulip bull run
“We plan to shoot for the moon and land on a pile of money” classic Silicon Valley businessplan.
Considering how tech CEOs are acting, with their bunkers, bodyguards, remote islands and rockets, I’m not sure they planned to come back after leaving with all our money.
Hookers, don’t forget their hooker stockpile.
leaving with all our money.
Talk is they’re planning on staying away while money and debts inflates away to zero and come back with all the deeds when the fighting stops.
Don’t you need a functioning government for a deed to have value?
What do you think the private militaries are for?
What are you going use to pay them?
The promise of being one tier above the rest once their new world is in place.
The promise of not having to be reduced to mere farmers, cattle herders and other manual labourers.
The promise of not being the oppressed but the helping hand of the oppressor.
The deeds. Keep up!
What a weird sequence of sentences to describe that no one likes data centers
people aren’t dropping their shorts…
cracks are forming…
A big crack…
Indeed lol
I’m studying his body. I’ve never studied the body of a man before. It’s not my thing. Nothing wrong with it, of course. But I looked at his ass and then I looked at his legs. I said, “His ass—shit—it’s like, it’s like a pile of muscle.” Then I looked at his legs, and I said, “Man, his feet are big.” Then I looked at his shoulders, and I tapped him on the shoulder, and it actually hurt my hand. It was like a piece of steel.
Hahahaha is that erotic fiction 101?
oops, left this off…
— Donald Trump
Hahahaha well that clarifies. Thank you. Lol
That’s exactly what I thought. Like wow, that part is in the headline? Lol
Lol, exactly. Someone was feeling frisky writing that headline lol.
Don’t worry, this administration will still drop their shorts. Hell, they’ll remove their lower rib cage as well just to further please the billionaires.
remove their lower rib cage
Hahahaha now there is a line I haven’t heard in a while. I think Marilyn Manson came out saying he never did that to address the rumors that he did. However, could totally see this cult of an administration getting behind it if they were asked to.
So crazy that that dude went from being Paul on the Wonder Years to having to debunk those sorts of rumors. Life before the internet, amirite?
Oofff yah no joke. Among other things too lol.
Weirdly, in my school it was Trent Reznor instead of Marilyn Manson.
Well then, maybe i’m confused lol. Wouldn’t be surprised if multiple people were rumored to do it back then.
Nah, it was Manson in my school as well.
Yeah, and Britney Spears had to have her stomach pumped from swallowing too much cum. Rumors back then were wild.
Nope! That was Rod Stewart. Who apparently also jammed gerbils up his ass. Or was it hamsters?
They’d also pull up their shirts to show their scars. No sarcasm.
Yah just like the diapers on the ears, the stupid toupes, and the geriatric diapers as outer wear…fucking idiots.
I think I missed this. What are you referring to?
Some of these sources may be questionable, but you can do your own searches from there lol
Why Republicans Are Wearing Fake Ear Bandages
The toupe thing I kind of made up but here is an example lol
Donald Trump Mocked Over His ‘MAGA Mullet’ Hairstyle
Trump Supporters Wear ‘MAGA Diapers’ At Rallies: A Take On ‘Von ShitzInPantz’ ?
Hah thanks for the link.
Crack spread eh
Its divisive lol
Cracks are appearing would have been funnier.
If only these data centers held the information that would have told them they were being the asshole.
That people were dropping their shorts i the first place is a bad sign.
The ubiquity of NSAs signed by government officials shows the entrenched degree of corruption. The companies and officials alike should be charged with crimes.
Not only that but they know people don’t want them and they not only allow it but then also give them tax breaks. So the data center owners aren’t even paying taxes to improve the community. All these assholes do is take
AI tech is the ‘best’ weapon of mass destruction yet.
Good.
One thing I noticed while voting in the mid terms is how being anti data center is fairly bi-partisan even for maga dick bags.
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The, we’re going to spend 10 trillion dollars on new data centers and they will use all the water and power messaging for stock pumping while people see costs increasing and rising water and power bills was a pretty direct and understandable message. Remarkably fast turnaround though ,it shows how most concepts are ossified while this was genuinely new and people were willing to change their minds on it.
And yet Republican candidates and sitting legislators are pushing hard for them. They really don’t seem to be reading the room well.
We’re seeing the same thing in Canada, too. The typical alignment between corporations and the right wing seems to not be serving them well this time around…
They’re reading the room just right, you just don’t get who’s in it. They’re doing what they’re told by their tech masters.
I get that but they also need to be elected unless their goal is to pad their pockets as quickly as possible, now, before they get kicked out of office (which, hey, for some, certainly possible).
Personally, I suspect they’re so deep in their own bubbles, and so used to a mindless right wing base that will vote for them no matter what, that they don’t see what’s going on.
The face that they are still hesitating with trump becoming highly unpopular tells me that what most likely happened is they were bought by tech bros into their technofeudalism shit.
It is almost as if we have common interests if we got past the “my team!” crap.
I’m studying his body. I’ve never studied the body of a man before. It’s not my thing. Nothing wrong with it, of course. But I looked at his ass and then I looked at his legs. I said, “His ass—shit—it’s like, it’s like a pile of muscle.” Then I looked at his legs, and I said, “Man, his feet are big.” Then I looked at his shoulders, and I tapped him on the shoulder, and it actually hurt my hand. It was like a piece of steel.
FUCK AI data centers.
These companies are “too big to fail.” Just like last time, when the bottom drops out on these bad investments the debt will be socialized.
My theory is they want the democrats to win so they can come hat in hand to congress and ask for bailouts for this totally not essential and speculative industry.
I’m not quite following, why would the Democrats winning make it easier for the AI companies to ask for bailouts? Genuine question.
also the fact that the ai chips wont be operational until a few years later, by then the AI models are all outdated.
Its not a monolith, older models are still useful because they’re less intensive and so more efficient for certain tasks. Those older models will likely still run fine on outdated hardware.
A lot of people imagine hardware that has been outdated as immediate e-waste. It sounds stupid because it would be stupid.
A lot of people saw what happened (And is happening) with Crypto mining. How long before dedicated ASICs for models start popping up? Those ASICs are retired generally after ~6 months now, and end up costing more than the mining would generate.
So, tons of ewaste, just from crypto companies.
American taxpayers will foot the bill for the bailout. And AI will know if you’re unhappy about it.
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