I have to rethink my priorities I guess.
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10-3 workday with 2 hour lunch with wine!!! … But only if dems win 60 senate seats.
This is pretty much what I do minus the lunch wine just because I’m sober, to make up for the time I usually work a couple hours a few nights a week while watching a movie on something on the couch.
I had to start work at 2 this morning. Alarm set for 1:30. Woke up, 30 minutes later it was 1 am again.
For years I’ve said I never even notice DST because my phone and computer just update on their own. I’ve officially been hoisted by my own petard.
Shoulda set it for the other 1:30
I gotta change 3 house clocks, a car and several wristwatches. Every damned time I think I got the DST settings fixed on my Casio collection, nope! We shall see in the morning.
The problem isn’t work. It’s the fact that we made up units of time and expect everyone to believe in them.
Hours and minutes aren’t real. We should stop using them. They’re a capitalist creation that only serve to exploit our labor and steal actual time. Real humans don’t need clocks or watches; employees do.
I need to know the time when I’m by myself in the woods or swamp. So, uh, I’m a capitalist pig?
Or did the joke go over my head? Hard to tell around here sometimes.
You don’t need to know the time with hour precision in a swamp.
I’ve lived in a swamp and the best part is the lack of clocks.
I mainly want to know when sundown is so I use the palm trick (one hour per palm width, sun to horizon). I can stick it within 15 minutes even when the sun’s behind the trees.
Maybe I have a slight obsession with time? I always wear a watch when I’m out the house and collect old Casios. Had a watch since first grade.
Yeah, you’re definitely infected by Human Time. The hand trick is all the precision I need.
Sun down is at sun down. Sunrise is at sunrise. Everything else is nerd shit.
Tell me about it. Like don’t get me started on days of the week. What do we need to name them for? Like “Oh this is ‘Tuesday’” Whatever that’s supposed to mean. Real humans just need today, yesterday, tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, etc. Everyones always waiting for Friday. Why? Because the boss says you have to work until then. I say we just make every day a weekend.
I’m not going to call a day a specific name unless it introduces itself.
LOL time existed looong before capitalism. We need them for bunch of other things, likeb planning meeting with friends and family, done cultures use that to determine when to pray. To go to school etc etc.
Eh. It’s actually a fair bit more complicated than that. As usual, the ownership class twists everything to their desire for control.
People never coordinated time before the invention of clocks? Guess nobody had parties in antiquity.
I mean in antiquity, parties were often multi-day affairs because the attendees would have walked for multiple days to get there
This is what clocks have stolen from us
Ah yes, the anti-measurement bloc. The extreme minority ridiculed by both imperial and metric proponents.
What the fuck even is a kilometer? Something pushed on us by nations and companies that is pulled straight from someone’s ass.
It’s so made up they can’t even make it a real number. It’s one over 299,792.458 light seconds.
Why can’t it be an even 300,000? Because the idiots who made it up fucking measured wrong using something they made up
Measurements are bullshit.
idk, I find being able to split time into chunks I can assign stuff to pretty handy. Not to mention being able to know things like when a train is going to arrive/depart…
You can just do things. You don’t need to wait for a clock to tell you it’s time.
And, yes, trains and their schedules are part of the exploitation. Especially because the train doesn’t mind being late, but will never wait for you.
In theory? Yes. In practice? I’ll end up scrolling and procrastinating for an unknowable and unreasonable amount of time.
And I don’t see your point here. Yes, the train will sometimes be late. But it will never leave early, which means that as long as I’m there by a certain well-defined point, I’ll make it onboard.
Time is a tool that can be used for exploitation, but definitely doesn’t have to be.
Another Human Time infection. Pretty bad, too. Sad to see.
And if the train’s not gonna follow the schedule I don’t see why I should either. Either time is important and it shows up on schedule or it’s taking the piss and fuck you for being late.
I just hate being somewhere at an arbitrary time but I can’t change that if everyone else has this fascination with clocks and minutes.
Sounds like what you hate is being imposed a strict schedule and (ironically enough) others not adhering to one (resulting in trains being unjustifiably late, as opposed to being justifiably late due to mishaps/accidents).
However, in my experience, having to be somewhere at a set arbitrary time is much less frustrating than having to be there as soon as possible and hoping that the stars aligned.
I hate that the train doesn’t care about me. Neither do the clocks. And frankly people like clocks and trains more than they like me.
Real humans don’t need clocks or watches
So you’re the guy that shows up 2 hours late to the party.
A wizard shows up precisely when he intends.
Also I’m bringing a dozen tacos and burritos.
We already ate because the plan was to order pizza at the beginning
Sounds like a lame party if showing up with snacks for the drunkards isn’t welcome
So the teetotalers are supposed to just get fucked then?
I mean if the chemistry is right then get to fuckin
It’s supposed to be a party after all
Yeah, but doing it on an empty stomach cause someone’s gatekeeping the snacks seems cruel.
Minutes are a useful concept when I’m measuring my heartrate. Otherwise, I wouldn’t know how many beats per … something … I was hitting.
Put sand in a glass
Wait for it to drain
Congratulations you can now monitor your heart rate without arbitrary notions like “minutes”
Just the arbitrary notion of how long it takes for an arbitrary number of grains of sand fall through an arbitrary opening at the bottom of an arbitrary bottle.
The grains are real.
Your heartbeats are real.
Minutes are not.
yes, but how do I compare my resting heartrate to someone else’s without someone borrowing someone else’s sandglass? Is 130 beats per glass high or low?
A basis for comparison is very useful.
Use the same sand, duh
And it would be better to chase what feels best for you than some arbitrary mean
I would like more daylight in the evening and also a shorter work day, thanks.
Right?? I just realized it’s gonna be dark before 6PM now.
I used to live in a WV valley, and it would be nighttime at 3:30PM.
more kissing = more babies and more say gex
(forgot to include those that might not want kids but still want some smooches too, plenty of love to go around)
everyone wins!
Kissing creates babies??! i think my sex ed class must’ve been all wrong…
(jk my school didn’t teach sex ed)
no, no, kissing leads to dancing which leads to babies
As an aside, adopting year-round daylight saving time in the US would add 2 billion school commutes in darkness and billions more work commutes, with a corresponding increase in traffic deaths and injuries. Traditional daylight saving time comes in second. The plan with the fewest dark commutes is year-round Standard Time.
Commuting isn’t the issue. Quality time is the issue. Those dark morning commutes (for about 60-90 days of the year) cost us the only hour of evening daylight that could potentially be had for 120-150 days of the year.
We already use standard time for 8 months of the year. To minimize disruption, we should just extend it year round.
Commuting as per se isn’t the issue. The issue is that when more of those commutes occur in darkness, more people get killed commuting. They’re literally dying so more evenings can start before dark.
More people are dying from seasonal affective disorder, depression, heart disease, and other conditions associated with the sedentary lifestyle that winter time promotes. A lot more. The lack of evening daylight drives kids indoors, to their couches, TVs, and phones instead of participating in outdoor activities.
You are killing more kids than I. You are killing a lot more.
Do you work second or third shift? The only reasons to support early morning sunlight are if you don’t work first shift, or you do nothing but loaf around the house after work. Since the alternative is profound laziness, I figure you must work evenings or overnight, right?
Commuting is the issue when you don’t want to run over kids. Driving tired is bad.
Circadian rhythms have become simple to manage with cheap smart lamps. A daylight bulb that fades on to coincide with summer sunrise times is trivial to setup, and easily solves the problems the “sleep experts” are talking about. Artificial lighting is easy to install in bedrooms.
It’s a little harder to illuminate all outdoor spaces to keep the sun from setting in the early afternoon.
It’s easy to add retro reflective details to kids clothing, lighting them up like Christmas trees whether they are out before sunrise or after the streetlights come on at 4 o’clock in the afternoon. It’s a little harder to brighten playgrounds and metro parks and hiking trails and soccer fields and sledding hills to make them safe enough for the kids to use after school.
Afternoons are the only time slot kids have to engage in outdoor activities. Stealing those hours of daylight from them is child abuse, and is largely responsible for the obesity epidemic.
TL;DR: Standard Time makes you look fat.
Nice body shaming.
Show me the papers that support your point instead of using emotional arguments.
Nah, we are well beyond rational arguments at this point. Nobody is providing papers supporting any of their claims, whether the idiotic idea that traffic fatalities will increase, or “sleep experts” or any other bullshit on either side of the argument.
Changing the time twice annually is one of the stupidest things we have culturally inherited. We managed to kill it once, and some nostalgic idiots decided to resurrect it, and inflict it on us again. There is no serious argument about actually keeping it. The only discussion remaining is whether it should be killed in Spring or Autumn.
We have spent 2/3 of our lives on spring/summer/fall time, and 1/3rd on winter time. Minimizing disruption, we should permanently adopt the schedule we use more often: DST.
There is no support for permanent standard time. You know how I know that? Because the states are free to adopt it. The federal law instituting DST permits states to adopt permanent standard time if they like. That law expressly prohibits states from adopting permanent DST.
The overwhelming majority of the public prefer to eliminate the time change, but only two states have elected to do so by adopting standard time. The remaining 48 could go to permanent standard time tomorrow, but they all prefer DST.
Can we agree on simply removing the federal prohibition against the adoption of DST? Can we allow the states to choose what they want to use?
Not American, so I don’t give a fuck what mess you have going down there.
To quote MIB, people are stupid, and they’ll take the wrong decision if you let them. Your disdain of scientists is proof enough.
adopting year-round daylight saving time in the US would add 2 billion school commutes in darkness
Unless you did the obvious thing and adjusted the school and work hours. Why isn’t that being considered?
It’s not like it was some rule handed down on a tablet that work must start at 9am and school must start at 8:30 or, whatever time it is that kids go to school in your particular local area. If it’s safer to wait until after the sun is up to send the kids to school, then start school later.
Adjusting school and work hours should definitely be considered - so there would be no reason at all for daylight saving time.
It should be considered long before you consider changing the clock so that noon isn’t at noon.
You’ve spent almost 3/4 of your life with solar noon occurring sometime between 12:30pm and 1:30pm. We only use “standard time” for a little over 1/4 of the year.
Why are you suddenly demanding that noon be moved forward an hour for 3/4 of the year? Why cant we keep it where it normally is, but year round? Why do we have to move it for winter?
You’ve spent almost 3/4 of your life with solar noon occurring sometime between 12:30pm and 1:30pm.
Maybe I have, maybe I haven’t. You don’t know where I live and where I have lived.
We only use “standard time” for a little over 1/4 of the year.
Do you? That’s stupid.
Why are you suddenly demanding that noon be moved forward an hour
You can’t move noon. What I’m suggesting is that 12pm should be as close to noon as possible.
And there’s nothing sudden about my demands.
I totally agree we should scrap Daylight Saving Time and encourage flexing school and work schedules.
4 day work week. Entire day savings.
There is another solution: live far enough up north and the day disappears totally eventually.
I live up north and I can tell you DST makes fuck-all difference after a week here.
There are only 2 days, summer and winter. All DST do is mess with my sleep pattern twice a year.
Those that believe this leads to shorter works days are out of their minds and not paying attention at all.
True, but I doubt there are very many. The appeal of daylight saving time is having more sunny time between work and dusk, with dark mornings apparently being an acceptable tradeoff. The part of that tradeoff people don’t grasp is that there are more car accidents during darkness, which means more injuries and death. The approach that would inflict the least number of dark commutes is to have standard time all year. Year-round daylight saving time is the worst.
What do you mean by “this”? The only mention of shorter work days I see in the post is the OOP wanting them.
It’s assumed that there will be shorter work days.
Well, yes, if people enforce shorter working days there will be shorter working days.
Do you find issue with this?
It’s how humans have existed for 99.9% of our time on this planet, and how we’ll exist against after the collapse of capitalism and the dogma of infinite growth.
Yesterday I saw a video with a sleep expert.
She said that human beings have a problem getting up until it’s light and that Daylight Saving Time can mess that up.
I propose that AT THE VERY LEAST, during the winter, work days be one hour shorter, but with no decrease in pay, and that they start an hour later.
This will allow people to have a proper amount of sleep, and to see the sun in the morning, to be better rested, and to see the sun at the end of the day.
I propose that AT THE VERY LEAST, during the winter, work days be one hour shorter
This isn’t something you “propose”, this is something you demand when negotiating your job offer. If you’re not an in-demand worker and can’t do that, then join a union and have the union demand it.
Really, this whole daylight time / standard time debate is stupid. Solar noon should be at 12pm. Once you’ve fixed that, adjust other things. If in the summer people want more evening sun, then start work earlier. If in the winter they want more morning sun to make commutes safer, then start work later.
It’s absolutely ridiculous to have the freedom to change work hours and clocks, and think that the reasonable thing to do is to change the clocks so noon isn’t at noon, rather than just change work hours.
We used to do that in the 19th century before standard time was a thing with railways. Though scheduling an online meeting with anyone outside your city would be hell, for example a 9:00am meeting in New York City would be 8:48am in Boston and 9:12am in DC.
You should have also have a read on Japan’s time system before 1873 in the Meiji period: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_clock
It breaks the day and night in 6 parts each. These parts are longer in summer and shorter in winter, corresponding to a changing length of the work day, which is what you were describing. Certain aspects were retained in Japanese vocabulary like 午 still used to represent noon like in afternoon (but using the standard 24h clock), or the word for snack derived from the number 8 because that was what represented the time 2/3s of the way through the day when labourers of the day typically took a break and had some tea and a light meal.
We used to do that in the 19th century before standard time was a thing with railways.
No, with railroads each city had their own time. I’m not suggesting that. I’m saying that time zones should be arranged so that solar noon falls close to 12pm. With DST solar noon can be as late as 1:30pm, or perhaps even later in badly designed time zones. That’s dumb. Solar noon should be close to noon. We shouldn’t mess with that. If that makes certain other things like commuting or sending kids to school inconvenient, we should change the hours at which those activities happen.
Or, just use UTC for the time for everything and never change it. Then everyone’s in the same time zone, and you no longer have to wonder what time it is in Baku. You’d still have to do a bit of digging to know what normal work hours and normal sleeping hours are in Baku if you wanted to contact someone there though.
I agree that doing away with conventions like “9-to-5” would be a good idea, and just adjust schedules to whatever is healthiest rather than try to conform to a fixed system where not necessary. In China with a single timezone, the regions far west of Beijing supposedly just go about their day with offset schedules.
I’m saying that time zones should be arranged so that solar noon falls close to 12pm.
I suppose you might have meant that, but you did say in the earlier reply, quote, “Solar noon should be at 12pm” which would suggest each city would have its own noon so that it can be true for most people. Maybe I’m being too literal bordering on facetious, so I’ll stop there. Sorry for my misinterpretation of your comment.
which would suggest each city would have its own noon
No, it would suggest that each person should have their own personal noon, if you’re being pedantic.
The time zone is an hour wide. Solar noon and chronological noon cannot coincide with each other throughout an entire time zone.
I would say that Solar noon should occur some time in the noon hour. Solar noon should never occur prior to chronological noon, nor after the noon hour. Solar noon should never occur at 11:00am on the clock. Solar noon should never occur at 11:30am on the clock. Solar noon should never occur at 11:59am on the clock. Nobody should experience solar noon earlier than 12:00pm. Solar noon should be experienced sometime between 12:00pm and 12:59:59pm on the clock. Solar noon should be experienced within the noon hour.
The system that more closely aligns with this is Daylight Savings Time. Standard Time pushes solar noon forward into the morning hours for most people. DST keeps noon in the noon hour for most people. If you want chronological noon to coincide with solar noon, you need to choose DST, not standard time.
Solar noon and chronological noon cannot coincide with each other throughout an entire time zone.
Sure, in a properly designed time zone, solar noon will range between a clock time of 11:30 and 12:30 at the edges. But, if you go with permanent DST it will range from 12:30 to 1:30. Nobody in the zone will have solar noon at noon.
Sure, in a properly designed time zone, solar noon will range between a clock time of 11:30 and 12:30 at the edges.
No, in a properly designed time zone, solar noon will occur between 12:00 and 12:59:59. Nobody should be experiencing solar noon before chronological noon in a properly designed time zone.
And yet, that is what we have. Boston experienced solar noon at 11:29AM today. New York at 11:40. Los Angeles, 11:37 AM.
Even if we accepted the ridiculous idea
of tolerating solar noon before noon, we would need a fifth time zone (and redrawing of the current time zones) to achieve what you’re trying to do. Maine and the rest of New England would have to be moved to Atlantic time instead of Eastern, for example.
If each of us adopted your “noon at noon” standard for ourselves, and we each independently and permanently selected Summer Time or Winter Time in our current time zone, the majority of the US population would be on Summer Time. The majority of the land would be on standard time, but the people are not evenly distributed across that land. The majority of the populace would be on DST.
Sunset today was at 4:27PM in Augusta, Maine. That is a big damn problem that is only going to get worse for the next ~40 days. That same problem occurs on the eastern edge of every time zone.
Frankly, I’m not interested in the advice of “sleep experts”. I’m more interested in the advice of fitness experts, recreation experts, and everyone else who understands that mornings are the time we waste giving to bosses and clients; evenings are the time we spend on ourselves and our loved ones.
For me, fitness experts and sleep experts are on the same level. They all have some different story to tell.
I don’t call my labmates molecule experts. That would be insulting but funny. Never a scientist, always an expert buahahaha.
I’m a “children in a box” expert, which doesn’t sound too good until I mention I’m a school bus driver.
For me, fitness experts and sleep experts are on the same level.
They are on the same level, but they are making opposite recommendations. Sleepists want morning daylight; fitness and recreation wants afternoon daylight.
Kids don’t work out in the early morning before school. They engage in extra curricular activities in the only time slot available to them: after school. Taking daylight from the only time slot they have for themselves pushes them indoors, rather than being outside and active.
The reality is that the morning daylight that sleep experts want is easily produced artificially. Daylight lamps in our bedrooms can easily address the circadian issues the Sleepists raise.
Afternoon daylight cannot be similarly simulated.
TL;DR: Standard Time makes you look fat.
Yeah, if the day started at such a time that I could wake up at 8am, which is when the sky would be lightening up just before sunrise in the dead of winter (if we stayed on DST), that’d be sweet. I am one of the sun in the morning people, but I’d be willing to rethink my position.
And the worst part is that my jobs generally start at 10am. I’m just surrounded by days that start way earlier. I also have jobs that start at 530, or 630, or 730, and so the evening light was never such a big deal for me.
You should also go to bed when the Sun sets. you do that too, right?
No you shouldn’t. Not at all actually. Your hormones typically build up to initiate the sleep cycle around 9:30-10:00pm. It’s skience brah.
Lol if you’re going to bed that early and sleeping until sun up then you have early symptoms of dementia.
Wow how did that evolve?
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220107-the-lost-medieval-habit-of-biphasic-sleep
Could be because humanity spread out from more equatorial areas? So we evolved to sleep at night because they used to be regular from season to season.
Ya know… a shorter workday in the winter is one heck of an idea. I like it.
Just one or the other dont have strong opinions which, just stop the changing.
Can we just pick one time and stick to it instead of swapping twice a year?
No, I mean yes, but let’s do that in the picture first!
“AI revolutionizes the way we work so that a lot of people get kicked out of their jobs.”
Hey, if we can do most of the work without the people even working, why the hell am I doing overtime here? Why is anyone? Let the machine do the hard work, I’ll enjoy life meanwhile.
AND DAYLIGHT, FFS!
Yeah, definitely that as well. Although I think “let’s not do daylight savings swaps anymore” is going to be a much easier fight since there is no powerful vested interest in keeping it…
A lot of places are doing that, but they’re making the stupid decision to keep DST all year, which means that solar noon is at 1pm.
Just keep it the same all year. Keep solar noon at 12pm. If you think it’s dangerous for kids to be catching the bus in the dark in winter, start school 1 hour later. If that means parents might need to stay home longer to see their kids off to school, start work later.
This isn’t rocket surgery. Adjust the work and school schedule, not the clock.
It doesnt make any sense to keep DST permanent there’s no pluses.
a) It will be still dark at 7am for large chunks of the year this sucks. b)You get one final shitty spring forwards, but lose out of the pleasure of one last fall back.
DST sucks because you have to go to school when it’s dark and leave school when it’s dark
a) It will be still dark at 7am for large chunks of the year this sucks.
Why? Is there something special about “7am”?
morning people be like
Lotta kids are going to school or waiting for the school bus around that time. Many people are getting ready for or going to work at that time too. Waking up and commuting before the sun kinda sucks especially when the reason for it is because of an artificial time zone shift
The sun wouldn’t be up until nine o’clock. That sucks
Why? What does nine o’clock matter? Does it bother you that right now it’s 3pm in Beijing but it’s the middle of the night in North America?
The numbers on a clock are just numbers on a clock. It doesn’t suck any less if it’s dark at 4am or 7am or 10am.
Seven in particular is a touchstone because that’s when a lot of people are up going to or getting ready for work
There’s no reason that can’t change. If you don’t like being up at 7am when it’s dark, then change the time you start work.
and it’s when kids are often going to school and waiting for the bus.
There’s no reason kids have to go to school at 7am. Kids could go to school at 9am. There’s nothing sacred about the current schedule.
but it’s a silly compromise to make when it’s artificially made.
Yes, I completely agree. This arbitrary school start time of 8am or 8:30 or 9am or whatever it is where you live is artificially made, and can be changed. There’s no reason to keep that arbitrary time and instead change the clocks so that time occurs when it’s light outside.
Wow, you really like arguing, don’t you?
Only when someone is wrong.
Western culture is so alienated from Country that it’s easier to change time itself than to change work schedules
Not sure what that has to do with Country.
The clocks should agree with the sun, and the sun is part of Country. Noon should be when the sun is up. People are alienated from the natural cycles happening on Country.
For Europe we currently share a timezone across many countries (CET/CEST). That is way too convenient to ever change. Noon is probably never going to be at 12pm everywhere.
For a big geographic area like Europe, the best you can do is make it so that on average for the population solar noon is around 12pm. Some people in the east will get solar noon before their clocks say it’s 12pm, people in the west will get it after the clocks say it’s 12pm, but on average, solar noon is at noon.
China has an even stranger situation. It’s a huge country that uses one time zone. They’ve set it so that for the majority of people / most important cities, noon is at noon. But, that means that some people in the far west of China have clocks saying it’s noon long before the sun gets to its peak. But, that might be a reasonable compromise to have everybody in the country on the same clock. What would be dumb is to have everybody in the country on the same clock, then say that for the majority of people solar noon is when the clocks say 3pm.
Who cares when solar noon is? Id like to get out of work with any amount of sunlight.
This isn’t rocket surgery. Adjust the work and school schedule, not the clock.
I care when solar noon is. You should to. What does solar noon have to do with getting out of work with sunlight? If that matters to you, make it a demand when you get a job.
Many places have. Just about the only thing I support my current government doing.
Do all the people who have daylight savings time also use energy savings bulbs and money savings tips?
Of course, LED bulbs are so ubiquitous that it’s hard to even find filament bulbs that aren’t special use, and instead of wasting money on big trips to Epstein’s island they now have have the children trafficked straight to their hotel rooms
The ones in power deciding for everyone else don’t use them, I would think.
Can I have comforting hugs instead of kissing?
Granted
