• AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml
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      5 days ago

      No election is going to ever have an outcome that addresses climate change on the timescale that it’s going to affect us so who the fuck cares? Society will collapse and the American political system with it. And you know this is coming but you’re still putting all of your thoughts and energy into the direction of that system. The framing of your question is the problem. The thing that should have happened ‘during this election’ (read: the last 18 months and only that few because it was a midterm) was developing militant dual power instiutions so that when that breakdown happens we aren’t swept away in the default fascist renewal of capitalism.

      • deadalus@discuss.tchncs.de
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        5 days ago

        I agree, proper change sure as shit isn’t coming from the Dems, but you can still try to pick the lesser of 2 evils in the meantime.

        • dubs@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          5 days ago

          Why waste your time on a party that is going to perpetuate the problem, when there are other parties that are fighting against the problem.

          • deadalus@discuss.tchncs.de
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            5 days ago

            I’m not saying campaign for them or support them in any way. Just cast your vote for them so the country goes to shit a bit slower and prepare for actual change in your spare time. Organize a protest, join a union, burn a billionaire at a stake.

            Voting for a 3rd party will never give them any legislative power bc of your weird ass election system. If it was a parliamentary system sure, but not with whatever you got.

            • Lenin's Dumbbell @lemmygrad.ml
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              4 days ago

              Actually, why tf should I care about you fucks?

              Whether its a democrat or republican, Palestinians and Lebanese people and Yemeni people are slaughtered everyday.

              Why do your lives matter more than theirs? Especially after everything your shithole country has done to the rest of us.

              Vote PSL or dont vote at all. And just for the record, for the next 2 years, I’ll be egging on MAGAts to vote for MAGA again in 2028 so your shithole country can implode sooner

            • dubs@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              5 days ago

              Just cast your vote for them so the country goes to shit a bit slower and prepare for actual change in your spare time.

              I’m not sure that’s useful. The Dems are a short-term subtraction of harm, but a long-term multiplication of harm. When they get elected, the fascist system keeps getting built out, but it’s all hidden away so that it’s not so obvious.

              Voting for a 3rd party will never give them any legislative power…

              Yeah, that’s what I want. I dont want the Dems to have power. Just like I don’t want the Republicans to have power.

              • deadalus@discuss.tchncs.de
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                5 days ago

                I see your point, but going for the worse option so people wake up is rather bold. And at least I can’t do that with good conscience, because I’m a white cis man, I’d be the last person to really have any consequences from that. And I can’t gamble the safety of other groups like that.

                I’m not saying be complicit. Strike, protest and riot. Make your voice heard. Call for a parliamentary democracy, whatever.

                • dubs@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  4 days ago

                  I see your point, but going for the worse option so people wake up is rather bold.

                  I don’t know where you got that reasoning, I never said it.

                  I’m a white cis man, I’d be the last person to really have any consequences from that. And I can’t gamble the safety of other groups like that.

                  As a fellow white cis man, not only are you gambling with the safety of other groups by voting for the Democrats, you are losing that gamble on a daily basis. When the Dems have been in power, they’ve been kidnapping, torturing, mass deporting, etc marginalized people all the time. They also help and enable the Republicans. They aren’t fighting against the Republicans, they are on the same team, building out the same system.

                  I’m not saying be complicit. Strike, protest and riot. Make your voice heard. Call for a parliamentary democracy, whatever.

                  Sure, but know that the Democrats stand side-by-side with the Republicans to stop that type of action from being successful.

                  • deadalus@discuss.tchncs.de
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                    4 days ago

                    I know the Dems suck, I just don’t think you’ll be able to vote your way out of this shit.

                    But I’m not American, so idk the intricacies of your system. What would you say is the best way to get away from the 2 party system?

      • NonconfrontationaI@lemmy.ml
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        5 days ago

        I don’t think people realize just how close we are to a multi breadbasket failure and the deaths of 500,000,000 people lol.

    • dx1@lemmy.ml
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      6 days ago

      Every election here is a missed opportunity to put in an actual resistance to take the system down. People make a million excuses on why we all need to settle for the worst or second worst candidate, and that’s who we end up with, every time, because the population talked themselves into it.

      • tacosanonymous@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        6 days ago

        Yeah, most people wait until Election Day to do anything and it’s too late by then. There is usually no “resistance candidate” for them to choose bc of it.

      • frigge@lemmy.ml
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        6 days ago

        dump is always worse. It is chaotic, self destructive and pulls everything and everyone further down more quickly.

        • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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          4 days ago

          “The Nazis would have been better if they were more intelligent and able to keep the holocaust going longer”

          • frigge@lemmy.ml
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            4 days ago

            Well that escalated. I think racism, sexism, all the -isms really are a sign of stupidity, which everyone can be a victim of. Apart from very few people that are physically incapable of feeling empathy, everyone is capable of empathy. And a smarter person is significantly easier to reason with than a dumb person. I fully subscribe to the materialist idea here that not we shape our environment but our environment shapes us. And unfortunately, there is a lot of propaganda going around that tries to dehumanize others. It is easier to switch of the empathy part of your brain. The nazis were very good at this and pretty much the whole imperial core has copied their tactics. But then again psychopaths tend to gravitate towards positions of power.

            Maybe i am naive and completely wrong about all of this though. If an idiot that fucks everything up as quickly as possible is actually the most optimal way to overcome the current system, then that’s it i guess. I don’t have a leg in the game after all. I am just an observer and try to not make things worse in my day to day life.

            So yeah, maybe you are right. I really don’t want to argue about this. I want this to be over as quickly as possible, just like you.

        • NonconfrontationaI@lemmy.ml
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          5 days ago

          It also resulted in the largest loss of soft and hard power the US has ever seen. Are the lives of you Americans more important than the rest of the world combined?

          Trump is single handedly destroying your country, which is objectively a good thing.

          • frigge@lemmy.ml
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            5 days ago

            I am not american. Don’t get me wrong, I fully agree that america losing it’s imperial power is absolutely a good thing. I am just saying that it is significantly more difficult to argue with a dumb person than with a smart(er) person. And a dumb person in power is just pure chaos. Idk at the end of the day it is useless to argue about what could have happened. History unfolds the way it does and we should try and make the best of it.

            • BrainInABox@lemmy.ml
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              4 days ago

              Don’t get me wrong, I fully agree that america losing it’s imperial power is absolutely a good thing.

              No you don’t, you explicitly said that a more competent manager and maintainer of imperial power is better

              • frigge@lemmy.ml
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                4 days ago

                i also said in another comment that i don’t think that the trajectroy would have changed with a more intelligent capitalist at the top. It is still capitalism after all. Self destructive system with falling profit rates and all. I definitely didn’t want to imply that i want it to maintain its power for longer.

                • Lenin's Dumbbell @lemmygrad.ml
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                  4 days ago

                  Then you’re wrong completely. The effects of capitalism can absolutely be slowed down. They’ve been doing it for a century. And every time the US does it, the world suffers for it.

                  Which is exactly why we need MAGA. We need people like Trump to collapse the US. Americans will suffer but its for the best. The world has to progress.

                  The US regressed thr world by sacrificing millions of third worlders. If the price of global progress is a few thousand dead Americans, that’s a bargain

        • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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          6 days ago

          You are making a clear case for his being allowed to continue vandalizing the american empire

          • frigge@lemmy.ml
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            5 days ago

            fair point. I think however that the trajectory the USA is on would not have changed significantly even with the Democrats in power and the world would have maybe avoided at least a few tragedies. Not the big one in Palestine, obviously. Everyone seems to be on board with that one. But i don’t know, to be honest with you. I just hope that that whole shit is over sooner rather than later …

            • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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              5 days ago

              That’s true, a wounded animal lashes out. But these death throes, as dramatic as they are, are still so much less deadly than business as usual. It’s like the last set of nazis: putting them down did require incredible violence, but nowhere near as much violence as they would have visited on the world otherwise.

                • RiverRock@lemmy.ml
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                  5 days ago

                  I worry about it too, how to help people and how to prepare. I hope that the American state’s terminal belligerence can force enough of the rest of the world into cooperation against it to create the kind of framework we need to deal with the worst of climate collapse and maybe nurse our planet to better health. But yeah, with the bottomless depravity we know the empire is capable of, you’d be crazy not to be worried. It can be paralyzing when you try to take in the scale of the threat, and in these times I find refuge in trying to build with what few real life comrades I have.

                  • dubs@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    5 days ago

                    I have those hopes and fears too. I also hope that the rest of the world can contain and mitigate our damage, but I also don’t think anyone is coming to save us. It’s going to be up to us to save ourselves.

                    I am optimistic that we can do that, even though it will be painful

              • dubs@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                5 days ago

                Oh, total agreement there. I’m not saying that the American empire shouldn’t die, just that it will cause damage when it does.

        • Aria@lemmygrad.ml
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          6 days ago

          I want the USA to self-destruct actually. And pulling some of the imperial core with it isn’t the worst either.

          • frigge@lemmy.ml
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            5 days ago

            yeah absolutely. The core can go to shit. I was rather talking about all the collaterals that have to suffer as the dying empire lashes out in desparation/confusion.