Can someone explain to me how my state got everything else right for the most part but went stupid for this one?
Literally, let’s inspect little girls privates, but not boys, because 10 trans students exist and MIGHT want to play sports with their friends? Jesus.
It was also kind of disgusting that literally all our state initiatives were funded by a 1%-er, Brian Heywood and his Let’s Go Washingtion PAC.
This is the absolute dumbest bait thing to get mad about. This entire issue is more or less a straw man created by the right to get people to vote for them. It impacts a completely miniscule portion of the population, and very clearly, trans women have a biological advantage over people who were born women. More muscle, faster reaction time, etc. It’s known and scientifically proven. Clearly, the populace agrees with this as evidenced by this passing. You could make a trans specific league, but there are so few trans athletes that you would likely be unable to field a team. The left needs to just drop this issue. It plays right into where the Republicans want.
https://www.advocate.com/politics/national/trump-dallas-transgender-empty-arena
I’m gonna be honest, as someone who doesn’t really give a shit about sports, I just don’t care. Let whoever wants to play play on whichever team or league they prefer. I don’t care who plays, wins, or loses, and the whole thing just doesn’t matter very much. These are GAMES. Diversions. We are talking about children playing games. This shit just doesn’t matter very much.
Do you believe that an AFAB girl/woman who is able to easily defeat male opponents should be banned from participating in women’s sports?
If you are going to argue in favor of banning trans women from participating in women’s sports, you might take that argument to it’s logical conclusion and filter out for all biological inequities. Born too tall? Banned from basketball, because the average person is not as tall as you and it wouldn’t be fair to the majority of average height players. Born with webbed fingers and toes? Banned from swimming, because other people don’t have that biological advantage and it wouldn’t be fair.
You see how drawing the line arbitrarily at gender identity/biological sex is absurd?
I hope I do but too many that are happy transphobes when it comes only to women’s sports don’t every acknowledge it. Hell even in this thread there’s someone happy to say it’s only a factor in women’s sports. Others say it’s fine because they hadn’t seen men complaining like the women…
I think we should drop issues that impact you instead, since there’s more trans people than there are you.
It would only impact a completely minuscule portion of the population.
Every trans woman i know is basically patched together with duct tape and caffeine.
If the numbers are so fucking low then it’s a non-issue. We’re talking a miniscule part of the population. You’d have to have a trans student. Then that student needs to be out. Then that student needs to want to be into sports. A tiny number sliced down and down and down. You’re talking about five fucking people. You’re getting hysterical over five fucking people . That is absolutely nothing worth talking about, let alone legislating. Absolute horseshit
its strange. I know a very large portion of the left feel its wrong for trans women to be competing against biological women, but this portion is so afraid of getting vilified by the other portion for what they secretly consider to just be common sense, that they just stay silent. And, honestly, its probably the smart move. We live in a world where if you’re the nail that sticks out you get hammered down.
Good. That position deserves to be vilified. I hope you get hammered down off this fucking platform you worthless piece of shit
I guess… thank you for proving my point?
Nobody actually cares about trans women in sports. Its a proxy for the real argument, which is usually ‘I find it icky’. The left doesnt need to drop it. They need to ignore the stupid sports argument and call it out for what it is. Bigotry.
Trans people have rights and the right wants to strip them of them. It has nothing to do with sports.
It’s not that they JUST want to strip them of rights, they want them to stop existing. Full stop.
we need to hold their feet to the fucking fire because this isn’t just an attack on Trans people. It’s a gateway to attack the entire Queer community.
They come for one of us, they come for all of us.
what exactly gives you that idea? I literally just had a conversation with a very left leaning friend yesterday and she made it pretty clear she thought it was ridiculous for trans women to be competing again biological women because she said they clearly had an unfair advantage.
Either your friend is a TERF or it was what we Germans call “Geschichten vom Paulanergarten” which means it never happened.
People who claim trans women have an unfair advantage don’t know what HRT does to a body and muscle retention.
So stfu about shit you have no idea about.
You should take your own advice.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9331831/
That’s a review and not a study. And a lot of the content is pretty cherrypicked.
Bad try.
This is an actual study that shows that transwomen have comparable fitness to ciswomen.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/60/3/198
That is also a review, my friend.
It’s also just an abstract. Do you have the full paper?
I will acknowledge that transgender women after 3 years or so may have similar physical fitness to cisgender women. That 3 years is important though. I think if transgender women were to be allowed to compete in female leagues, there would need to be verification of HRT timelines. In a high school environment I could see this being difficult for a number of reasons. That’s not to say I’m against it, but I think further regulations would need to be put in place in order to guarantee fairness.
Edit:
Reviewing it further…
https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-study-looking-at-physical-fitness-of-transgender-and-cisgender-women/
Also here is something a lot more comprehensive then https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7988249/ if you have a free account, you can see the full text
And sports have standards. In most cases, transwomen have to have hormone levels similar to ciswomen. I agree with having standards to ensure that transwomen have to have been on HRT long enough to achieve similar levels as ciswomen. But banning transwomen from women’s sports is wrong.
Reading that article, it seems to pose more questions than answers. It repeatedly admits that more data is needed.
“Table 1” alone seems to give more reasons than enough to delay integration of trans and cis athletes due to a pretty decent number of “future considerations”.
So as in my previous edits, I still think there are just too many unknowns to ensure fair competition. I think the voters got it right on this one – for now – until those unknowns have been solved.
She thinks that Kamala was only slightly too far left when she said that ICE would deport more people under her administration than Trump’s.
thanks for your helpful addition to this conversation.
Ask your idiot friend how long she’s been thinking women are inferior to men.
'Cos that biological essentialism is the bastard child of misogyny
Well, even leftists can be absolutely brain dead fucking stupid. So jot that down.
both parties have their very brain dead portions, one party just has more of them.
I would say anyone that can’t think for themself, fact check, or vet sources is probably pretty fucking braindead. Unfortunately there are almost just as many of those people on the left as there are on the right. I mean theres a reason why the frickin middle class voted against a literal billionaire tax in california.
My point is that your “very left leaning” friend is a fucking dipshit for believing that, and is probably not especially left wing, if they’re willing to throw trans people under the bus based on pseudo-scientific nonsense
Is it pseudo nonsense that men have a physoligical advantage compared to women, or what are you arguing?
Trans women aren’t men and taking HRT impacts your muscle mass, etc.
There is a wealth of scientific literature about the effects of HRT. This isn’t new or unexplored. But apeals to fairness in sports, based on a poor understanding of the science, is being used as cudgel against trans folks. As a wedge issue to bar us from being about to exist freely in public life.
The fact that the sports ban policies that come out of this, also impact cis women and girls, be exposing them to genital checks and the like, are a bonus for the kinds of backward reactionaries who push this shit
read this:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9331831/
Even after years of therapy, there are still remaining advantages that trans women possess; Lung capacity, heart size, bone density, more advantageous skeletal structure, residual strength advantages, etc…
pseudo scientific how? this isn’t bigotry, this is a real question.