Can someone explain to me how my state got everything else right for the most part but went stupid for this one?
Literally, let’s inspect little girls privates, but not boys, because 10 trans students exist and MIGHT want to play sports with their friends? Jesus.
It was also kind of disgusting that literally all our state initiatives were funded by a 1%-er, Brian Heywood and his Let’s Go Washingtion PAC.
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That is very disappointing like when CA passed Prop 8, and it went down in flames later because these things are wrong, and target people. That’s not liberty and justice for all and will fall eventually too.
All male sports athletes should just play with their dicks out. Only way to be sure.
Pass legislation and call it the Humans Actually Requiring Athletic Male Body Exhibition law.
That’s how swimming used to be back in the 50s. Kinda fucked up how adamant parents were to keep it that way at the time.
Fix the timeline…
Pretty sure a lot of republicans would vote for that…
Just like in Ancient Greece, who were famously vehement anti-pedophiles.
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To any future reader: this person is a bot farming rage. They are a new account and, according to their comment history, they believe non-white people are genetically predisposed to steal, and poor people are predisposed to rape.
Thanks. I will harvest this rage. 😂
Edit: Aww, account age 20h, and their dozens of posts/comments are all deleted. 🤣
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i want to watch the life drain from your eyes
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i wasn’t talking about sexuality or gender, i was talking about killing you
Your instance name fucking rules! I love it
Nobody wants you here
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You identify as someone or something that cannot comprehend a reality of which many aspects are analog.
I did enjoy having you here for a short time, but I feel I speak for this thread’s majority when I say that your ad hominem attacks and refusal to create any meaningful argument are becoming tiresome.
Chromosomes, not wigs or gait, determine sexual characteristics. Chromosomes are not binary, and presumably you are not that user’s doctor or specialist.
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Kys
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They were almost as insensitive as demanding children get genital examinations in order to participate in school sports.
Vast majority of “trans” are just homosexual men with XY chromosomes.
Source?
your overall “for any and no reason at all” abortions
you obviously believe that a man that puts on a wig and says “I am now a real woman” is legit.
Don’t try to put words in my mouth, and I already rebutted the second point.
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If you could understand the images I sent in the other comments, you would see that it is entirely possible for someone with XY chromosomes to appear to be a woman, present themselves as a woman, and believe they are a woman.
By the way, I’m still waiting on a source for this claim you made:
Vast majority of “trans” are just homosexual men with XY chromosomes.
Where did you get this information? I would like to learn more.
This is the absolute dumbest bait thing to get mad about. This entire issue is more or less a straw man created by the right to get people to vote for them. It impacts a completely miniscule portion of the population, and very clearly, trans women have a biological advantage over people who were born women. More muscle, faster reaction time, etc. It’s known and scientifically proven. Clearly, the populace agrees with this as evidenced by this passing. You could make a trans specific league, but there are so few trans athletes that you would likely be unable to field a team. The left needs to just drop this issue. It plays right into where the Republicans want.
https://www.advocate.com/politics/national/trump-dallas-transgender-empty-arena
very clearly, trans women have a biological advantage over people who were born women
I’m gonna be honest, as someone who doesn’t really give a shit about sports, I just don’t care. Let whoever wants to play play on whichever team or league they prefer. I don’t care who plays, wins, or loses, and the whole thing just doesn’t matter very much. These are GAMES. Diversions. We are talking about children playing games. This shit just doesn’t matter very much.
trans women have a biological advantage over people who were born women. More muscle, faster reaction time, etc.
Do you believe that an AFAB girl/woman who is able to easily defeat male opponents should be banned from participating in women’s sports?
If you are going to argue in favor of banning trans women from participating in women’s sports, you might take that argument to it’s logical conclusion and filter out for all biological inequities. Born too tall? Banned from basketball, because the average person is not as tall as you and it wouldn’t be fair to the majority of average height players. Born with webbed fingers and toes? Banned from swimming, because other people don’t have that biological advantage and it wouldn’t be fair.
You see how drawing the line arbitrarily at gender identity/biological sex is absurd?
You see how drawing the line arbitrarily at gender identity/biological sex is absurd?
I hope I do but too many that are happy transphobes when it comes only to women’s sports don’t every acknowledge it. Hell even in this thread there’s someone happy to say it’s only a factor in women’s sports. Others say it’s fine because they hadn’t seen men complaining like the women…
I think we should drop issues that impact you instead, since there’s more trans people than there are you.
It would only impact a completely minuscule portion of the population.
Every trans woman i know is basically patched together with duct tape and caffeine.
If the numbers are so fucking low then it’s a non-issue. We’re talking a miniscule part of the population. You’d have to have a trans student. Then that student needs to be out. Then that student needs to want to be into sports. A tiny number sliced down and down and down. You’re talking about five fucking people. You’re getting hysterical over five fucking people . That is absolutely nothing worth talking about, let alone legislating. Absolute horseshit
its strange. I know a very large portion of the left feel its wrong for trans women to be competing against biological women, but this portion is so afraid of getting vilified by the other portion for what they secretly consider to just be common sense, that they just stay silent. And, honestly, its probably the smart move. We live in a world where if you’re the nail that sticks out you get hammered down.
Good. That position deserves to be vilified. I hope you get hammered down off this fucking platform you worthless piece of shit
I guess… thank you for proving my point?
Nobody actually cares about trans women in sports. Its a proxy for the real argument, which is usually ‘I find it icky’. The left doesnt need to drop it. They need to ignore the stupid sports argument and call it out for what it is. Bigotry.
Trans people have rights and the right wants to strip them of them. It has nothing to do with sports.
It’s not that they JUST want to strip them of rights, they want them to stop existing. Full stop.
we need to hold their feet to the fucking fire because this isn’t just an attack on Trans people. It’s a gateway to attack the entire Queer community.
They come for one of us, they come for all of us.
Nobody actually cares about trans women in sports.
what exactly gives you that idea? I literally just had a conversation with a very left leaning friend yesterday and she made it pretty clear she thought it was ridiculous for trans women to be competing again biological women because she said they clearly had an unfair advantage.
Either your friend is a TERF or it was what we Germans call “Geschichten vom Paulanergarten” which means it never happened.
People who claim trans women have an unfair advantage don’t know what HRT does to a body and muscle retention.
So stfu about shit you have no idea about.
You should take your own advice.
That’s a review and not a study. And a lot of the content is pretty cherrypicked.
Bad try.
This is an actual study that shows that transwomen have comparable fitness to ciswomen.
That is also a review, my friend.
It’s also just an abstract. Do you have the full paper?
I will acknowledge that transgender women after 3 years or so may have similar physical fitness to cisgender women. That 3 years is important though. I think if transgender women were to be allowed to compete in female leagues, there would need to be verification of HRT timelines. In a high school environment I could see this being difficult for a number of reasons. That’s not to say I’m against it, but I think further regulations would need to be put in place in order to guarantee fairness.
Edit:
Reviewing it further…
“The authors have been thorough in gathering relevant literature, but the paper suffers from several problems.
“Only longitudinal studies are truly informative, because otherwise we can’t know the contribution of hormonal treatment to fitness nor how much difference in fitness between transgender women and cisgender women existed before treatment began – it might be that transgender women in research studies have self-selected as a group who were not as strong or as aerobically fit as cisgender men before they began treatment. The longitudinal data (pages 8-9 in the paper) don’t show convincing evidence of changes in physical fitness that remove the advantage known to exist between men and women in the absence of hormonal treatment. Indeed, other authors (including me) reviewed essentially the same literature and concluded that performance decreases due to hormonal treatment in transgender women were notably smaller than typical differences between men and women, meaning retention of performance advantage
Also here is something a lot more comprehensive then https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7988249/ if you have a free account, you can see the full text
And sports have standards. In most cases, transwomen have to have hormone levels similar to ciswomen. I agree with having standards to ensure that transwomen have to have been on HRT long enough to achieve similar levels as ciswomen. But banning transwomen from women’s sports is wrong.
very left leaning friend
She thinks that Kamala was only slightly too far left when she said that ICE would deport more people under her administration than Trump’s.
thanks for your helpful addition to this conversation.
Ask your idiot friend how long she’s been thinking women are inferior to men.
'Cos that biological essentialism is the bastard child of misogyny
a very left leaning friend yesterday
Well, even leftists can be absolutely brain dead fucking stupid. So jot that down.
both parties have their very brain dead portions, one party just has more of them.
I would say anyone that can’t think for themself, fact check, or vet sources is probably pretty fucking braindead. Unfortunately there are almost just as many of those people on the left as there are on the right. I mean theres a reason why the frickin middle class voted against a literal billionaire tax in california.
My point is that your “very left leaning” friend is a fucking dipshit for believing that, and is probably not especially left wing, if they’re willing to throw trans people under the bus based on pseudo-scientific nonsense
Is it pseudo nonsense that men have a physoligical advantage compared to women, or what are you arguing?
Trans women aren’t men and taking HRT impacts your muscle mass, etc.
There is a wealth of scientific literature about the effects of HRT. This isn’t new or unexplored. But apeals to fairness in sports, based on a poor understanding of the science, is being used as cudgel against trans folks. As a wedge issue to bar us from being about to exist freely in public life.
The fact that the sports ban policies that come out of this, also impact cis women and girls, be exposing them to genital checks and the like, are a bonus for the kinds of backward reactionaries who push this shit
pseudo scientific how? this isn’t bigotry, this is a real question.
Because our hate crime laws are insufficient.
I think a lot of the left is being willfully ignorant of other people’s viewpoints and I find it frustrating.
- The vast majority of people voting for this did not know all the content of the bill, “keep boys out of girls sports” is probably the most they heard about it, not the genital checking.
- Plenty of centrists and even right-leaning people are OK with adults doing what they want, but are still very protective of children. Limiting children from hormones is not considered a violation of trans rights for most people; rights have always been segmented by adulthood, the same way a child does not have the right to vote or join the military or get a tattoo. I think a large part of the issue is that the left (or any political ideology) is not really cohesive and is several ontologies in a trench coat; the popular rhetoric (woke version 1 as AOC calls it) from the left has been that gender is a social construct and is divorced from biological sex, if that’s the case then why do trans children need hormones to be their preferred gender? As a fellow leftist I understand everyone experiences gender and it’s relationship to society differently (euphoria vs dysphoria, etc.), but there has been a major nuance gap in public discourse which leaves many Americans feel like the left has pulled a bait and switch on them.
- Society has spent decades promoting girl’s and women’s sports and now feel like that’s being trampled upon by allowing biological males (who have a distinct physical advantage) dominating their space. It’d be like getting rid of weight classifications in power lifting, anyone under 6 feet would never win again and short people would be ousted out of another sport.
A ‘fellow leftist’ biological males-ing? You’re a hoot
Do you deny sexual dimorphic trends within our species? Are there populations of humans where females have more bone density, skeletal structural differences muscle mass, and height than males I haven’t heard about? Would you want all sports desegregated? If males aren’t distinctly different from females why even bother taking hormones to change body morphology at all?
If you can figure out how to ask questions like that, which seem important to you, without exhibiting transmisia then there might be hope for you yet
I think it’s worth noting that a human’s genetics chnage based on their environment.
Saying that males have a distinct advantage is entirely too reductive for such a complex topic as human genetics and growth.
Do you have any epigenetic phenomena that specifically applies to sports abilities in the average human? I agree individual cases may vary but it’s hard to deny the vast majority of men out perform the vast majority of women in almost every aspect.
https://runninglevel.com/running-times/5k-times https://strengthorigins.com/strength-standards/powerlifting/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcprxDdAdeE
The voter guide was pretty specific about the invasive checks. Everyone gets the guide.
I live in Seattle I’m well aware of the voter guide, however that does not mean the average voter reads it.
Dominating girls sports? Of course that is nonsense. Meh.
Unfortunately I can’t disagree. I do wish people would look something up rather than assume as the initiative did at least say that “it would require verification of a student’s biological sex.” I guess people didn’t ask the obvious next question of “how?”
Proper education and understanding is one of the biggest issues in society. We’re always moving too fast as society intends, so that we’re too tired to think about things, we’ve got bills to pay, and social media primes us to make and stand behind snap judgements.
We really didn’t circulate this ad enough.
Thankfully it should get immediately challenged at the state level based on discrimination since it only applies to girls.
Unfortunately I can’t disagree. I do wish people would look something up rather than assume
You can’t say that, in agreement with someone who said “by allowing biological males (who have a distinct physical advantage)”. If someone had done the former, they’d understand the latter is not a blanket statement you can throw around
Certainly the people implementing these bills and initiatives have a better sense of reality than the idiots voting for them, and so thus must have some sort of even worse goal… Right?
Like, maybe their goal is to just split people, and isn’t entirely horrific laws based on pure fear, ignorance, and bigotry… Right?
…right?
I’m so tired.
They’re not banned from sports, they just don’t get to pick their team.
Just like everybody else.
Everyone needs to have a medical exam to play already, just like they have for the past 50+ years
Relax everyone. Conservatives only want to inspect the athletic girls’ genitals. It’s not like they are trying to look at non-athletic girls or even naked boys. That would be gross and immoral.
Each young, athletic girl who has genitals that are capable of passing a detailed inspection with a rating of 7 out of 10 or higher will be permitted to play girl-sports in public for everyone to look at, record and enjoy. And to prevent any criticism from the libs, all genital inspections will need to be video recorded. For safety of course. And then reviewed by men who are officially qualified as authentic conservatives. For safety. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER.
Why are genital exams required? Don’t they already already have a copy of everones birth certificate?
Genital exams are required because conservatives are pedophiles. It really is that simple.
FUN FACT: Conservatives are biologically unable to experience empathy. This is why they are unable to view women or children as humans. Humanizing others requires empathy.
A statement from your doctor does not mean a genital exam. I have to get a statement from my doctor for my son to go to summer camp that says he has no physical limitations. That part of the new rules is no big deal. The discussion should be about rights, not this hyperbolic calling everyone a pedo.
Hey now, that’s not fair. It’s not hyperbolic to call conservatives pedophiles. It is a fact that they chose a proud and well known child predator as their best representative out of everyone else in the nation.
They chose him as their most accurate representation three times over a decade, knowing full well that he “likes 'em young”, likes to go into teen dressing rooms uninvited so he can see them nude, and grabs women by their genitals without consent. According to conservatives themselves, no one more accurately represents them than Trump. No one.
It’s not just Trump. Conservatives consistently choose child predators as their most accurate representatives. I think its disrespectful to conservatives to ignore their chosen avatars. They insist on aligning with pedophiles and we should respect that choice and refer to them as such.
Serious question: does this explicitly say that the person whose job it is to inspect the genitals of girls cannot touch the girls?
If not, there’s almost certainly going to be a pedo in this position taking advantage of this new rule to touch underage girls’ genitalia
The article says statement from their healthcare provider, so they should be subject to the Hippocratic oath.
Ain’t nobody got deductible money round here! This is going to quickly turn into the pedoiest doctor around setting up shop in the gym a few times a year, with a perfectly legal “show a little pussy for play” stand where all the girls flash gash for a sticker and a lollipop.
He’ll probably get away with “needing more than a glance” too. As I’m sure “woman” is defined in such a way as to require more than labia.
History shows that to be very optional
Can someone explain to me how my state got everything else right for the most part but went stupid for this one?
If that’s an actual question, my guess at an answer is that since this election’s blue wave was more voting against Republicans than for Democrats, it’s not a sign of fundamental change among the electorate. People mostly still believe today what they believed a few years ago (though there’s clear leftward shift), and one of the few genuinely popular things Republicans have is their anti-trans agenda. Therefore when typically Republican-leaning people got to vote on it, they voted against Republicans and simultaneously against trans rights. This is doubly so because trans women in sports is one issue where Republicans can actually make a seemingly rational (but wrong) argument for their case.
Some things lag in politics. Trans kids in sports are the new boogeyman so most people have a hard time accepting the premise. If trans kids are going to be excluded we at least need to focus on education and general acceptance. When I was in high school pretty much nobody was openly gay although I like to think we wouldn’t have treated them like lepers (probably would have). Meeting LGBTQ people in college was common though and a lot of us got over our fears and misconceptions. I’ve met maybe 3-4 trans people in my entire life but in actuality it was probably more because they didn’t feel safe to present as the opposite gender. Unfortunately I think it will take time to get over the initial shock and the best we can do is to try and defend their right to self-determination and encourage them to be who they are so everyone can see this is really no big deal.
Also from a purely propaganda point it’s a great wedge issue, mostly because it’s what I like to call a grey water issue wherein theres a lot of nuance involved so it makes people stupid. Ideally people would stop being stupid and handle this based on an instance by instance basis especially since there are so few trans folks to begin with.
Mind you I know enough about biology to know that it’s a rainbow of fucken grey, because biology abhors easy answers. There’s no such thing as a perfect specimen only a type specimen and even that’s ignoring a lot of variation.
Congrats you have banned 1% of children from a leisure activity and now require minors to present their genitals to adults of no relation.
1% is a huge overstatement. There’s like 4 in the whole state.
4 trans minors in the entire state? I am doubtful.
if you actually think its a whole 1% then you should probably think about it a bit more.
I love cis people telling me this shit
im not sure what that is supposed to mean, or what relevance that even has to this topic, but you’re welcome i guess.
This just adds another barrier and pathway to abuse to women’s sports
Transphobia comes from misogyny, they want to hurt both the cis girls and the trans girls.
That’s the point! Brian Heywood wants girls and women to avoid playing sports.
