Because you now did it to yourself.
You dumb, dumb motherfuckers.
Regards, the rest of the world.
They’d be upset if they could read.
Most of us can, and are also stunned by the dunbass other half of the population
*Slightly less than half
mostof us can, and are stunned by the dumbass other half of the population FTFYRoughly 1/3 of the voting age population.
About 1/3rd of the voting age population do not vote.
We’re outnumbered 2:1
…as was the case in 1933 Germany…
Sure but a lot didn’t care. Less voters this time Trump votes stayed steady so. Lots of people who voted Biden where ok with Trump getting in.
clearly it’s more than half…
It’s not though. Voting is not mandatory and voter turnout in the US hovers only around 35-40% of the eligible population, on the high side.
The non-voters are also dumb.
Hey, that’ll get them to vote!
If a random comment on Lemmy would get a non-voter to vote or not vote then they’re pretty weak willed. Not voting should be a conscious decision.
A little late now.
Maybe we should vote to round them up
thus?
Once you take into account registered voters versus eligible citizens, and the turnout of registered voters… It actually comes out to more like 25% of eligible citizens actually voting, and that’s on the high side.
like the other commenter said, both trump voters as people who do not vote are stupid (except for those who were physically unable to vote in any way)
Nope, 1/3 of the population never votes. That’s around 100 million people. And neither party has close to 50% of the US population, so it doesn’t come down to a little more than half no matter who wins.
And the people that don’t vote don’t matter cause they don’t care either way.
Or they do care but don’t see enough of a difference between parties to matter which is in power
You could be smart enough to say “fuck you” to the mainstream Dem candidates early in the campaign.
The dumbass other half fears “the establishment” to the degree of going to dotards, coachfuckers and antivaxxers. Removing “the establishment” from your side could make them fear those more.
So the part about dumb, dumb motherfuckers can be arguably addressed to almost all of you, my cowboy friends.
Especially those saying that “the perfect is the enemy of the good” and people should vote for Harris instead of someone like Bernie or someone like Larry Lessig or who not.
Congratulations your disingenuous bullshit helped destroy America
Na you did that just fine but supporting harris do blindly she wouldn’t move her policy positions.
Yes I got people to sit at home by convincing them Harris is a genocide monster. All by myself. Just because I love being a huge piece of shit.
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I’m not an American voter.
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My bullshit before the election usually involved saying that you still have to vote for Harris.
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I’d say the media bullshit about the support of candidates, that communicated the wrong picture to Americans deciding whether to vote, has contributed much more than anything I ever wrote.
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No reason to panic. It’s just 4 more years, and then another election. Usually when someone promises you massacres and other bad things, you believe them, but not in this case - you’ve elected people who’ve never followed up on their promises.
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I live in Russia, so you had it coming for the older disingenuous bullshit about Russia being “just an imperfect democracy” and Putin being better than some imagined unholy alliance of communists and neo-Nazis.
Point 4 may be wishful thinking
True. But I can’t feel scared by that, comparing it to point 5.
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American here. Fuuuuc… Not what most of us wanted here on the West Coast.
Yeah, wtf is in the water out east?
Oh right, the lead
The southeast. The northeast did just fine.
This map shows a whole lot of fucking up.
You will get zero argument from me. This is a disgrace.
I’ve been trying to fall asleep for, uh, well the first dose of nyquil just wore off. This is going to be a fun night.
PA can fuck all the way off and not just cause I’m a Bruins fan
We fought hard and carried the team as best we could. We probably won’t be eating as much curb as some states, but fucking frustrating as hell that some Americans can’t get their shit together for 12 goddamn minutes. It’s like half the country forgot how bad 2020 was, not to mention the insane shit that went down day in and day out for years.
I hope, HOPE that we have the privilege of voting in four years, and that by some miracle, the president, Senate and house and SC (all projected to be Republican) somehow forget to fuck with our election system.
Have you considered… secession? 😉
I almost wish we could just be our own country. Washington, Oregon, and California are already very much aligned with one another.
Hi, this sentiment from non-americans pisses me off and it’s okay, but I feel it’s important to explain why so I’m copying another comment I made today.
Goodness knows some of us are trying our best. I mean keep in mind our country is a democracy in name but systemically props up white supremacists in excess of the real popular opinion. And a media disinformation machine keeps the working class divided against itself, with open support from the wealthiest and owners of the most popular social media platforms. Social media platforms that, let’s be honest, are super recent inventions we are not yet capable of engaging with safely. It makes it an uphill battle to try to reach out to people whose necks aren’t on the line. And the responsibility to do so falls upon the disenfranchised themselves, who are increasingly saddled with economic and health burdens that might just kill us someday.
I get the potshots at Americans, but frankly I don’t plan on taking the blame if this goes tits up - many of us did a hell of a lot more than vote to resist fascism. Nothing happened here that isn’t happening elsewhere. And I’ll fight the notion that citizens at large are the problem. It’s a cynical outlook that serves to individualize the responsibility for a systematic disaster. Our country was built to make this possible after all. And I sure as hell know I don’t plan on giving up. Kind of morbidly curious about how much of an incompetent clusterfuck Project 2025’s implementation will be.
Victory or no, fascists are paper tigers and I plan on sticking around to remind them of that fact however I can.
Fascists are paper tigers… bold statement. Especially if those paper tigers have access to the biggest military budget on the planet and are backed by an out-of-control police force.
Keep calm and carry on, mate. We here in Britain finally managed to get rid of the blonde fella who was wrecking our country, you can also do it. The new ones may not be much of an improvement, but I know one thing for sure - a decent citizen of any nation should never accept as their leader such a corrupted and crooked in so many ways person.
We traded an orange man for a white man and even that seemed to enrage the conservatives, a black woman? No chance. Proud to be an American here 🙄
Yeah, but still. How, how could anyone vote for this ekstra speshial man? And, more importantly, how can someone like me stay sane knowing that such morally corrupt candidates are winning votes, and not only in the US?
I legitimately do not understand why. The evidence is clear and there’s no attempt to hide the racism and xenophobia, I guess I just overestimated how my country feels about fascists. Thought we sorted this shit in the 40’s but I guess we’re doing the fourth Reich instead.
I don’t want to live on this planet anymore 👍
I mean clearly, to americans as a whole, women are scaaaary. Look at them taking their autonomy away with their anti-abortion laws.
Victory or no, fascists are paper tigers and I plan on sticking around to remind them of that fact however I can.
See, this is the issue.
It used to be this way. That until they’re actually in power (and I mean have removed the democractic process that could remove them from power again, too), fascists pose big but there’s no bite behind the bark.
But Jan 6 and Trump’s general antics being excused by his cronies in the SC have clearly shown that this is changing. People are emboldened by the fascist rise in all western countries, on top of the generally aggressive atmosphere worldwide as the older generations, unable to face their own misgivings and the shit they caused to pile up, would rather vote for fascism and “blaming Them™️” than accept that maybe it’s high time we accept some really rough times to turn the ship around.
Fully knowing that none of them will live long enough to actually suffer the outcome of their actions.Even my dad started voting AfD. His reason being “It’s time something changes!”. He’s just unhappy with the status quo, even if you fully tell him that he, personally, is among those suffering under the AfD and they’re open about wanting to make things worse for him. It’s impossible to reason with these people, as them wanting to be reasoned with would mean they’d have to accept that between climate change and the secondary monumental tasks of trying to handle that which are all inherently global super-issues, too, their generation only had it good in their days because they were living on credit.
But does he truly care? No of course not. He’s old. He can be contrarian and vote “against the establishment”, and that this fucks everything up more or less permanently isn’t a problem for him since he’ll be long dead by the time the issues that could have been prevented truly come into force. Much as we’re already seeing some issues such as curtailed bodily autonomy for women, increase in violent climes, and of course climate disasters.Things have changed. People fully do shit now simply because their age and general position in society shields them from the outcome, and they just want to be “against”. And they can openly flaunt this, so crime etc is on the rise. Big time.
Well said. Thank you.
Democrats handed this election to Trump, hold them accountable
There are always fighters like you which can’t be blamed. Nevertheless, most of the American voters are frankly deranged. As a Mexican who has been in the rural areas of the USA, it really fits.
Hey! Don’t blame all of us! Almost half weren’t retarded.
It’s just the other half are total retards :\
They’re not retards… well, not just.
They’re genocidal traitors to America.
The word you’re looking for is Nazi. We just repeated the Madison Square Garden rally and here we goooo
Also the US: Look at those foreign countries, bad guys because of what their government is doing regardless of whether it’s what their people want.
It kills me …I got into it with a colleague this morning while discussing this very topic. When I brought up that whatever the current trending “bad guy” is, we will always see an increase in hate crimes against that demographic in our own country. When I used the increased attacks on anyone appearing to be slightly middle eastern after 9/11 as an example she angrily spat out that “they’ve killed thousands of us.” And I had to remind her that she was literally giving an example of what we were discussing.
It’s actually probably much more than half. I would include those who were undecided for a longer time and then eventually settled on D still retarded.
So how dumb does that make the average american?
Almost half of the voters makes you just 1/3 of the population.
As if the rest of the world wasn’t on the same slippery slope…
Things are looking glum all over.
Yeah but Americans not being ~56% the dumb fuckwits they seemingly are would have sent a good positive signal to the rest.
Now the opposite happens and the fascists everywhere will feel strongly encouraged, on top of strong US-support for autocratic Russia and big support for completely depopulating Gaza (after all, Trump is a big fan of Neta “finishing the job” in his own words).
Nah, don’t ‘what about…’ this.
True, but I love how the first we blame for this outcome are the American people.
I blame Kamala Harris and her botching her campaign. She had amazing momentum at the start, then slowly threw it all away, instead politicking to small businesses and Republicans instead of workers and their own base: Democrats.
You both bear 100% of the blame each.
They voted for a con man, a fascist, a criminal, someone who tried to steal the last election. Kamala could be a bowl of day old warm potato salad and voting for him would still be one of the dumbest things imaginable.
Doesn’t matter.
Self-interest matters. What politicians will do for voters matters. That day old potato salad may be better than Trump, but it’s not at all inspiring.
If Democrats really took fascism as a threat, they would have activated Tim Walz and his views and pushed as fast and as hard as they could with the time they had to make the most progressive campaign since Obama’s.
But they went after the base who would have voted for a fascist anyways.
This is Democrats’ own doing. Sorry.
When fully capable adults do stupid things, like voting for an man with as many very serious faults as Trump, I blame them for doing it. That Democrats were ineffective at convincing people (or inspiring them) not to do something stupid doesn’t make the thing any less stupid to do. Inspiration is not required to avoid being idiot.
“Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi party, not because they hated Jews, but out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed.
That word is “Nazi.” Nobody cares about their motives any more.
They joined what they joined. They lent their support and their moral approval. And, in so doing, they bound themselves to everything that came after. Who cares any more what particular knot they used in the binding?”
History furnishes us with innumerable instances that prove this law. It shows, with a startling clarity, that whenever Aryans have mingled their blood with that of an inferior race the result has been the downfall of the people who were the standard-bearers of a higher culture. In North America, where the population is prevalently Teutonic, and where those elements intermingled with the inferior race only to a very small degree, we have a quality of mankind and a civilization which are different from those of Central and South America. In these latter countries the immigrants–who mainly belonged to the Latin races–mated with the aborigines, sometimes to a very large extent indeed. In this case we have a clear and decisive example of the effect produced by the mixture of races. But in North America the Teutonic element, which has kept its racial stock pure and did not mix it with any other racial stock, has come to dominate the American Continent and will remain master of it as long as that element does not fall a victim to the habit of adulterating its blood.
https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks02/0200601.txt - Main Kampf
The confederate states and their Jim Crow policies inspired Hitler. and black GIs came home from liberating Europe to be lynched for being “uppity”.
Is “Main Kampf” the Frankfurt version of “Mein Kampf”?
Are you kidding? Watching it happen in real time, it makes less sense than it ever did.
I lived in the shithole parts of the country, it made perfect sense.
Many ‘Americans’ would eat shit if they knew the smell would piss people off.
And it’s official now.
Fuck, this his hard. As a father of a gay child, and a trans child, our immediate plans are passports.
Land of the free :(
You forgot the big fat fucking asterisk.
asterisk = straight, white, hetero male of upper-middle class or grater
or grater
It still fits.
Everyone else gets the grater or meat grinder.
“Free” is used in the same way like the “Democratic” in “Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea”
*Visa. Passport won’t be enough to travel to the EU and select other countries in 2025.
EITAS isn’t a visa, and you can do it without travel plans and it lasts 3 years, tied to your passport.
Jeez that’s sad to read. I wish you all good luck on the voyage to a less a hostile country
As you know, we’re in a similar boat. Thankfully, we can get to Britain and stay (in theory) but the prospect of telling my elderly mother and my wife’s family goodbye for the last time, finding the money, finding new jobs with my health issues, just downsizing so that we can move…
But we are doing it.
I hope you and your family find safety and my best wishes to all of you.
Get out before January if you can
Imagine being Latino in a red state.
They’ve already done it to gay and trans people. Last time the Muslim ban was foiled by the courts. Now that the Republicans control the presidency, the SC, the house and Senate, little stands in their way. Project 2025’s Schedule F will see to that.
Some states did an amazing self-own tonight, and unfortunately both teams are going to endure some severe beatings. I feel absolutely sick right now. Poor us. Poor Ukraine. Poor middle east. Taiwan is so fucking boned.
Broooo what kills me is how many Latino men voted for this!! I saw a statistic that was like 59%
Trump didn’t mean them when he said “they” were poisoning the blood of our country.
And, of course, they will never get rounded up and put in a camp. As long as they have the proper identification on them that shows they’re a citizen when checked. And the cop checking will believe that identification is both genuine and not stolen.
Imagine being Latino and trans in a red state. Those people definitely exist. I am very scared for them.
Agreed, though you specifically are a peice of shit and your biased fucking sub are part of the problem.
Yes, any criticism is just people with anger issues, that’s sorta my point guy.
Ed: also notice I get civility hits from everywhere else, the only ones that contain personal bias are yours.
Care to share an example of this? I’m all for learning and growing, and maybe we can resolve this hostility in a non-hostile manner.
Read the mod log dude, we’ve had this conversation in private chat three times.
The last strike and subsequent ban were because you disagree with an interpretation of mine. Not that it’s factually wrong, not that it’s hateful, that you disagree and thus you removed it.
Ahh. I had to scroll for a while to find it, but this was my last message on that topic:
perma ban for fighting people with the usage of misinformation.
Yes the Nazis famously led by whom? Context matters, bringing up Nazis is invoking Hitler and implying jd is literal Hitler. No, I mention that the way was already going to point out the ineptitude of your choice of date, 1938 being the most apt for your situation. The word evemy, I already offered the definition, you either lack reading ability, simply didn’t read it and you’re being wildly obtuse. We agree, why are you being a Vance right now? Ed: I’ll provide another > one that is antagonistic to another - especially : one seeking to injure, overthrow, or confound an opponent You*** stop an opponent you destroy an evemy***.
Opponent and enemy are the same in the goal, but not always the same in the motive. You try to beat the opponent/enemy, in the method proscribed in the actions being taken.
During WW2 but before the us entered? What a dumb question, of course but that time they were already running concentration camps. Are you implying jd Vance is literal Hitler and runs concentration camps in his backyard I guess? I sourced you the definition. I say he’s my opponent which does not imply violence, you say he is your enemy which does imply violence and you’re also berating me because I agree with you but refuse to use violent vitriolic language. Neat, logic that one out yourself.
He’s an opponent, he’s someone I stand against, he isn’t my enemy. Because when I say enemy I mean someone who needs to be removed from society by any means possible. You seem to use it as someone you don’t appreciate. Enemy: >a person who hates or opposes another person and tries to harm them or stop them from doing something: Opponent: a person who disagrees with something and speaks against it or tries to change it: I’m fairly sure by news rules calls for violence are specifically against the rules and I’m not sure why you would call for violence given that is the only difference in meaning between the two words.
Enemy (From the Oxford Learner’s Dictionary):
a person who hates someone or who acts or speaks against someone or something
In short, you twist words to your desires, and you talk down to people, insulting them, and their abilities.
I’ll be hopping another client to post full screenshots of all our discussions, as right now, I’m being painted as an ass, without context.
The most recent conversation we had (read each image bottom-up while reading the images one at a time, from top down, because Lemmy):
Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Image 4
Image 5
Next, for full context - our first interaction in DMs:
Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Finally, the guy you were arguing with I removed comments, for the same reason.
I had completely forgotten about this until you attacked me here.
I am so fucking sorry you are in this shit and I wish you and your children good luck going forward. Sadly it seems like you will need it.
that wont get you anywhere.
It’ll get you out of the nation.
only for a few weeks.
That’s all one needs at this point
deleted by creator
It will though, the US passport offers a ton of visa-free destinations. Although it’s not immigration,it definitely helps
I imagine that’s going to change. Why would anyone welcome someone who statistically was very likely to have voted for a fascist? America will never be respected ever again
You havent been respected in a long time.
Well the entire multiplatform astroturfing campaign from people who call themselves leftists worked! Democrats stayed home instead of voting.
Now Palestine will be completely flattened with 0 resistance at all, and redoubled support and bombs for Israel! Way to go! You really showed your support for Palestine by helping this happen!
They will probably come back saying “it wasn’t our fault, we just pointed out the truth” while they shouted that a vote for Harris was a vote for genocide [so don’t vote for harris] from every platform that they used.
You’ll probably be permabanned from the instance for saying this but obvious pro trump trolls will get a comment deleted once a day so it all balances out /s
So fucking predictable.
Remember when Biden stepped down? Do you remember how unpopular he was and the massive wave of hope and support for Kamala that showed itself? Well, what the fuck did you think was gonna happen when Kamala glued herself to Biden, and tried to appeal to center right voters? They refuse to make compromises with the left, try to appeal to the center-right, and then blame the left for not voting for them; classic center/lib playbook, the same thing happens in Portugal, same thing happened in 2016 USA elections.
I thought that Democrats would win DESPITE the absolute dog shit campaign, given everything about Trump, but it was still an absolute dog shit campaign by people who claimed this was the most important election of people’s lives, but then dug their hills in ideologically and refused to compromise with people on their left.
If the situation wasn’t so dire, it would be hilarious to see the double think by Dem voters in this thread:
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“How can Rep voters not hold Trump accountable despite everything he’s done!”
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“It’s not the Dems fault that they lost, despite trying to appeal to the center-right instead of the left; it’s never their fault! It’s the leftists fault for not voting Dem! Kamala did nothing wrong!”
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Most of the leftists I know voted for Kamala.
And I love how Democrats’ first move after losing is to blame said leftists. We were the only ones calling out the bad moves of Kamala’s campaign from the beginning and warning what might happen if she didn’t adopt a Walz ticket (or mostly a Walz ticket).
Democrats did this to themselves. It’s the reason why they kept supporting a corpse of a candidate with Joe Biden for so long until the first presidential debate, and it’s also the reason why Hillary was picked over Bernie in 2016 at the DNC.
Leftists weren’t the issue. Democrats’ own willingness to ignore what was happening right in front of them was the issue.
Nah Trump won the popular vote too. This has nothing to do with voters staying at home. Trump won on the economy. I went to the gas station before voting yesterday and a redbull was $4 and a small bag of chips $3. I knew at that point there is a good chance that Trump would win.
Well the entire multiplatform astroturfing campaign from people who call themselves leftists worked! Democrats stayed home instead of voting.
Yup. I spent the last month or so tagging them, and I have not seen a single one today.
I’m not American.
Honest question: Why blame the voters? Why not blame Harris for refusing to do the obviously correct, ethical even moral thing regarding Gaza?
The democrats are so impossibly spineless that they wait for polls and focus groups for their talking points instead of standing up for their principles (if they really exist).
Dems spent the entire campaign trying to compromise with and convince right wingers acting in bad faith instead of just working towards progressive policies. They once and again let the GOP set the tone for every conversation.
The Dem’s attitude towards the genocide in Gaza is just a piece of evidence that shows their way of thinking: the dog race and politicking is more important that doing the right thing.
So stop blaming the voters and take a deep look into your own values and principles because the nation being obliterated right now in the middle east and the people who stand for them even at great cost to themselves are definitely not to blame.
Why blame the voters?
Cause they voted. Or didn’t. Ultimately the choice is with them and a large majority of people decided that they’ll vote for rapist, racist, authoritarian fuckwit or sit the fuck home because it doesn’t matter who is running the government.
You can talk strategies and blame Democratic party till cows come home but at the end of the day, the people have to choose the least bad option.
And if they weren’t willing to choose the least bad option, I think that says more about the least bad option than it does about the worst option.
No
So, her failing to be more popular than fascism is the fault of the voting base… Makes sense.
Tell me again how you fail to clear that bar, and how that’s the voters fault?
So, her failing to be more popular than fascism is the fault of the voting base… Makes sense.
Yes. The voters preferring fascism over liberalism is the voters’ fault. If the voters weren’t fascists and fascist apologists, Kamala would have won.
Today 71 million fascists, 66 million leftists, and 107 million fascism-apologists decided on the POTUS.
In Nazi Germany, the Jewish survivors had a word for people who didn’t vote against Hitler: Nazis.
Drag, calling @[email protected] a “Nazi” like this isn’t justified and isn’t the level of civility we expect in this community. Absent other factors like bigotry and disinformation, I try to maintain uncivil comments so there’s an understandable continuity in the comments and so people aren’t afraid to fully express themselves on the sorts of controversial issues discussed. It’s more than understandable to be angry at anyone who enabled this impending disaster to happen. What’s not is that Blitzo (the ‘O’ is silent) thoroughly debunked every misconception Drag had about them, and then Drag never apologized, especially after realizing they’re likely going through a similar level of trauma over the election that Drag is.
First of all, Drag, I voted for Harris, and actually voted Democrat down ballot. So from this trans veterans lips to your ear canals: Drag can go fuck Dragself for calling me a Nazi for having the audacity to criticize the party I’m forced to vote for that doesn’t represent any of my interests.
And that right fucking there is why Democrats lose, and Democrats are to blame: they can’t do anything but give us a candidate to vote against, and not one to vote for.
How many voters do you think they would have pulled running on an actual, progressive platform instead of the status quo bullshit we’re all clearly tired of? Medicare4All, free tuition, free school meals, actually funding social welfare programs, actually enshrining LGBTQ+ and bodily autonomy rights into law, expanding the supreme court to actually reflect the country’s wishes, abolishing the filibuster so progress can potentially start again in the Senate, stopping weapons shipments for the Palestinian genocide (or ffs, even taking a stance on the genocide)?
The Democrats lost, and fascism won, because the Democrats refuse to listen to their base. Dem voters stayed home because their party leadership failed to inspire them, and I’m sick of the people asking for policies that will actually benefit them instead of some billionaire oligarchs (where’s the blame pointed at the millions they funneled into the elections) being blamed for everything. This isn’t even considering the four years Biden had to show the American people any progress, any discernible improvement in their economic lives, and failed to do so.
Just like in 2016: the DNC forced a candidate onto the party they didn’t want, refused to listen to any vocal portions of the party while condescendingly telling them that party leaders know best and they need to fall in line, campaigned on uninspiring centrist policies and a return to the status quo, keep preaching about working across the aisle while being slandered and shit on, and then assume the race is in the bag because the other candidate is a fascist reality star.
And just like in 2016, they lost, and they have no one to blame but themselves.
So, her failing to be more popular than fascism is the fault of the voting base…
Treating politics as reality show entertainment is fault of the voting base, yes.
Democracy requires informed voters and Americans have shown to be anything but that.
This post is a really good example of how the disinformation campaign actually worked on people and created this believe. Fascinating. And terrifying.
Or maybe, like they normally do, the Democrats failed to rally their base to vote, or didn’t give them enough incentive to get out and vote.
Biden had 4 years to make meaningful progress for the American people, and whether or not he did is irrelevant because Americans don’t feel better off than 4 years ago. Democrats spent the last year screaming about the economy doing amazing, while ignoring all of the polls showing Americans don’t feel that way.
Democrats spent the last year sending weapons shipment after weapons shipment to Israel to bomb Palestinian children, despite polls showing the majority of Americans wanted contingencies on the shipments. And the Democrats instead lectured their constituents about how what they’re seeing and hearing isn’t actually what it is, and it’ll be worse with the other guy!
Democrats spent the last 4 years doing nothing but try to return to the same status quo that isn’t working for the average American anymore. Biden’s hubris took the decision out of the people’s hands, and we were given a candidate we didn’t choose and told to shut up and like it because “fAsCiSm.”
Well, congratulations Democrat Party, we fell to fascism because that’s obviously a better alternative than actually putting forward progressive policies. And whether you like to hear it or not, the Republican voter supporting this fascist movement is doing so because they want change in this country too.
Only difference being, the Republicans are actually “progressing” their party along like their constituents want. Maybe the Democrats should try listening to their constituents for once and, idk, see if that maybe works in their favor for once?
What exactly is wrong with what they said? At the end of the day, democrats support the genocide too. You can’t say “republicans will do it harder hurr durr” and expect people to vote for the one that still is for genocide, but is a little bit shy about it. The end result is the same - the Palestinian state will never exist and the people will be killed. There is no difference if it happens over a year or over three. So that issue is brushed aside, or is the cause of not voting at all.
Then you have the absolutely idiotic move to the right. Saying “the border wall is a good idea” as a democrat? Come the F on.
What belief, may I ask?
Look, you can check my older comments to understand where I’m coming from. I’m open to listening and perhaps we both can learn something from all of this.
Because you fall into the same “but what about?!”-thing modern far right excels at.
You myopically focus on a single issue, trying desperately to use it as a crowbar to dislodge an otherwise sensible point, ignoring that everything is inherently a compromise, in particular in a 2-party system. Hence any voter who is not as easily blinded - and it’s not like Harris wasn’t very open during speeches about how much the right deals in fearmongering and disinformation, going as far as openly mocking people for made-up bullshit stats they’re yelling - would be able to inform themselves and realize that:
- Even if they’d like their candidate of choice to act differently about a specific issue in a specific country on the other side of the globe, there are a million other also-important issues that are strictly going to work out better under this candidate.
- The candidate that now won has in fact very openly declared that he wants said genocide to accelerate and wants the IDF to “finish the job”.
So, even if we were to just focus on this particular issue, the voters very much vote pro-genocide when they vote for Trump. I love how he’s technically correct though when he says he wants to end the war in Gaza, people are just too stupid to realize how he means it.
But more importantly, and the central point I’m making, you’re under the belief that reaction to a single issue should matter. Any voter who lets this argument slide has inherently lost themselves to the populist and fascist movements as they excel at exploiting this, and in fact stoke this belief whenever they can. Politics on a large scale cannot be judged based on single issues. Because if you try to, you exactly fall into this trap. You automatically end up being barraged by appeals to emotion, constantly, and you’ll let those decide things for you.
Hence, blaming the voters. For not actually engaging with the democratic process, just with hate- and fearmongering and then wondering why that that ended up controlling them when they sought it out themselves.
The belief that everyone decrying Harris’ stance on Gaza was knowingly or unknowingly participating in enabling a worse stance on Gaza than the still-not-great one we would have gotten with her.
Look back now with hindsight and tell me what would be better for Palestinians in Gaza. What we’re getting with trump in charge? Or what we might have gotten if every single person who said negative things about Harris’ stance had instead focused solely on how Trump’s stance was objectively worse per his own words.
By not putting the focus on the absolutely 100% guaranteed WORSE stance of the two, people enabled talking points that led, in part, to where we are now.
THAT is why so many of us screaming about harm reduction and the lesser of two evils is SO pissed off about single-issue Gaza voters not putting in for Harris.
Stop letting perfect be the enemy of good. It leads to this.
Elections are about holding your nose and making the best of a bunch of imperfect choices.
Trying to make it anything else from the top down is folly. You have to start from the bottom up. Until that happens, we will never see our way out of a two party system.
You’re still blind you’ve learned nothing. Enjoy your fascism. Its not your fault people didnt vote for harris. Its their fault for not understanding how the system works. 😂 You’re hopeless. Harris lost not because of the genocide, its just an example, she lost because she didn’t give voters a reason to show up for her.
Arabs? Israel has a right to murder your family. Young people? Sit down im speaking. Labors? Heres 50k for you to start a business. Wat? I need to afford eggs. Abortion? Oh wait thats protected already is most of the states in play.
Look back now with hindsight and tell me what would be better for Palestinians in Gaza. What we’re getting with trump in charge? Or what we might have gotten if every single person who said negative things about Harris’ stance had instead focused solely on how Trump’s stance was objectively worse per his own words.
Can you try to put that into words? Like, give me concrete examples of how Trump is worse for Gaza.
A weapon doesn’t kill or hurt less people just because the dealer who sold/gave it away said, “Genocide is bad, okay?”
Those bombs are gonna kill and hurt people no matter if it’s the Dems or the Reps sending them to Israel. There are lots of reasons why Trump is worse, but if you’re a Palestinian it really doesn’t make a difference if the weapon that kills you came from a racist man or a woman who condemns genocide.
Edit:
So many downvotes, so many disagreeing comments, but not a single fucking person has managed to give one concrete example that explains why weapons coming from Trump is so much worse than weapons coming from Kamala, for Palestinians.
Palestinian nº1: Watchout, a bomb!
Palestinian nº2: Don’t worry, the person who send it said that genocide is bad!
Palestinian nº1: Oh, thank God! And thank you, for putting my mind at ease. For a moment I though that bomb had come from a racist, but I’m glad to hear it American democracy has been saved by the democratic party! Now I can be blown to pieces with a smile on my face 🙂
Can you try to put that into words? Like, give me concrete examples of how Trump is worse for Gaza.
Because there’s no effing way Netanyahu would have posted anything like this in response to a Kamala win.
“Congratulations on history’s greatest comeback! Your historic return to the White House offers a new beginning for America and a powerful recommitment to the great alliance between Israel and America. This is a huge victory! In true friendship,” Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu posted on social media platform X.
He literally said they should “finish the job” but we all know you’re lying and know he said that. I’m thankful for the user tagging feature in boost. I never have to give you benefit of doubt again, wasting my time reading the words of a liar.
Learn something from this…?
To what end? For what point? There isn’t an “undo” button on fascism.
Why not blame Harris for refusing to do the obviously correct, ethical even moral thing regarding Gaza?
Because I never saw Trump getting the exact same criticism. Not even when he told Netanyahu, “finish the job.”
Somehow Harris was always worse on Gaza to certain people.
Because like it or not stopping aid for Israel would have pushed all Israel supporters to Trump. Sadly apparently most Palestine supporters are stupid enough to not see that is 1000x worse for them
Palestine supporters are stupid enough to not see that is 1000x worse for them
I don’t think this is a constructive way of looking at the situation. After all, being quiet about Netanyahu’s abuses wasn’t a winning strategy either. Besides, being scared of Israeli lobbying automatically makes you a bad leader.
Regular people don’t live reading obscure threads on Lemmy so I’m 100% sure that the effects of the comments posted by tankies here are negligible.
My point is that you can’t lose against the worst human being twice and keep blaming the electorate. If they want to lead, the dems have to stand for something instead of complaining about turnout or in general blaming anyone else but themselves. It was THEIR job to get out the vote.
Trump is a monumental POS but the dems prefer to cater to the people who voted for him instead of the people who want legitimate pro-working-class policies.
You can blame dems for a lot but to decide not to vote for them because of Gaza is the dumbest possible take
Who is likely to lose? Oh right harris.
Yo! Wisconsin whats up today? How your friends and family in the middle east doing?
Hey Harris have any of that worker love? Protection of american jobs? No? 🥴.
Yo Pennsylvania whats up?
But yes its the voters who are wrong… Who was it that said ‘only winning matters’? Oh right pelosi… Smart. Evil. Lady.
Yes, Democracy lost. Whats your point?
That you’ve still learned nothing from this experience. The thing we were telling you for the last month.
Harris’ needed to give people a reason to vote for her. In Wisconsin that was stopping the genocide. In Pennsylvania thats fucking reducing the cost of living, inproving wages, etc.
If we’re lucky enough to get out of this with our country in tact next time stfu up about lesser evil and demand your candidate have policies that benefit people.
In short dont be like ‘sit down im speaking’ harris, the lesser evil. And instead be more like ‘yes sir stand up trll me what you need!’
Yes, the voters are wrong? You think you’re making some amazing point, but really you just look stupid.
Oh prole, divest yourself from politics its not healthy for you. You lack the ability to reason cause and effect. Someone in this thread has the correct take on the democratic party and their loss and its not you. Find the post about the democrats not being self reflective and how gaza is just a proxy for the root problem with democrats. They’re obsession with data, and focus groups. Its not the voters who are wrong when you dont inspire them to show up.
Why? Does she automatically get all the votes just because she exists? You get votes by doing what your electorate wants you to do. She didn’t do that and this is the result.
Because she is no fascist. If you have the choice between a fascist and a non fascist and you dont vote you support the fascist. In this case it is even dumber because one side tells Israel to calm it down but sadly still send weapons while the other says Israel is correct, did everything to worsen the relationships between israel and palestine even more and has a fucking settlement named after them.
If you have a choice between someone who is going to kill people you care about or a person that’s going to kill the people you care about, voting for either of them is supporting people who kill people you care about. And it is doing that directly, not through some proxy “oh but Trumps voters will vote, we need people who don’t support what Harris has been doing to vote for her anyways because not voting is supporting fascism”.
One side does fuckall to stop what’s happening in Palestine. They’re letting the Israelis kill Palestinians en masse, displace them and take away their land. That side is currently in power and had every possibility and every leverage available to them to stop it. They didn’t, and now they lost an election because of it.
The new side will still do fuckall to stop what’s happening in Palestine. They will say Israel is correct and will still send arms to them to kill Palestinians.
The result is exactly the same - dead Palestinians in the Gaza strip.
And this reasoning is why harris lost.
My point is that you can’t lose against the worst human being twice and keep blaming the electorate.
If the electorate votes for the worst human being twice they definitely deserve a freaking hulking heap of blame.
They didnt show up fam. We warned you. We told you harris wasnt doing enough. But you insisted that they were at fault if they didnt vote. Well guess what. They didnt vote. And now you’re stuck with the consequences. Thanks i guess.
The simple answer is you blame people for the things they do. Kind of fucking basic.
Yeah harris should have ran a better campaign with less genocide and more pro labor policies.
What actions have you taken to save lives in Gaza?
If you didn’t vote for Harris, the answer is absolutely fucking nothing of consequence.
I think you are overshooting how much average American citizens think about or even give a shit about Gaza.
Honest question: Why blame the voters? Why not blame Harris for refusing to do the obviously correct, ethical even moral thing regarding Gaza?
Because it’s only one issue out of many that need to be addressed (I didn’t say fixed because IMHO the IDF are doing pretty good work eradicating Hamas, all things considered).
You guys need to take care of your housing, healthcare, gerrymandering, public transport, student loans, separation of religion and government and a truckload of other things that I don’t think Trump has any interest in improving. And you can bet your bottom dollar that Trump won’t be any “better” in regards to the situation in Gaza and the rest of the middle east.
So the voters that didn’t vote Harris purely because of the Gaza issue are to blame for their short sightedness.
Okay so blame the arabs in Wisconsin. Got it. Now do Pennsylvania. Why did they go trump. Tell me more mr oracle.
In general I agree, because their campaign definitely could’ve been better and it should’ve been better. But on the other hand this election wasn’t genocide or no genocide, without a significant shift in either political party that would happen regardless. If you really wanted to twist it into “genocide or no genocide” then that vote was “completely support genocide” or “begrudgingly support genocide”.
But really this election was between “full steam straight into fascism” and “chance to not go into fascism”. It’s obvious that if you don’t vote for the latter you either want fascism or don’t care that you’re getting fascism. That is on the voters. They could’ve voted to pass the fascism buck to the next election, but they didn’t. Now America is getting fascism.
They literally voted for it. You can’t say don’t blame the people who chose it. Blame both.
You are right. We can’t keep blaming other citizens like ourselves.
There is one group of people that led us to this point: Democrats themselves. And by Democrats, I mean those in power, delegates, podcast hosts, and the ones supposedly “leading” the party. Not the electorate.
They are the ones that wished Biden would be able to make it to a second term, when the first presidential debate clearly showed otherwise. They are the ones that pushed un-Democratic policies in hopes of winning over a base they’ve never captured: Republicans. They are the ones that dropped the ball on one of the greatest feats of Kamala’s campaign that could have sent her over the finish line: Tim Walz and a progressive agenda.
This had nothing to do with Gaza. This election shows Gaza doesn’t matter one iota. Ukraine didn’t matter one bit. Not even your own human rights mattered. This was inflation, housing, and (further on the right) xenophobia. Clinton was right, “it’s the economy stupid” (even though Dems are better for the economy).
Well, I for one will question it, because I don’t understand what I’m seeing. How the flying fuck is this happening?
The apathy of the masses.
Calling this apathy is letting Nazis off easy. This isn’t apathy, this is a massive chunk of the US population willingly acting on this. Today is truly a tragedy.
They’re no less at fault. Fascists were always going to vote. Non-voters had the power to decide. Self-titled “centrists” and “apoliticals”, or those who adopted a stupid moral high ground because of one thing that Harris did or did not say, made a choice that amounted to “I’m okay with the worse outcome”. They failed to vote against the worse outcome.
Fascism is a cancer that should be excised with prejudice. So is abstention. And Americans should hold them equally responsible for every harm and every life.
Non-voters can turn fascist too. There’s no guarantee that if everyone voted, the results wouldn’t be the same.
Except everything we know about voting in America disagrees with you
I’m fully expecting a “night of the long knives” type of situation now. Hope to be wrong about it, but I haven’t been so far.
Apathy? This isn’t apathy. Apathy doesn’t vote. Hate votes.
That’s the problem, you see. Fascists and zealots were always going to vote. The decision was in the hands of the people who didn’t, and they’re at fault exactly as much as fascists.
Because the DNC would rather get Trump elected than listen to their constituency.
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While yes I’m sure it contributed, I think a lot of people voted because their rent and groceries were too expensive, so that means “vote for the party not in power”. It makes zero sense, but I have to hope that they’re just uninformed and desperate and not eager for what Trump and 2025 crew want.
Ultimately though, it’s on them. It was their responsibility to know what they’re voting for, and they failed. Now we can only hope they’re too incompetent to do what they want.
In the US, people are apparently convinced that every week, the president decides on the price of groceries, petrol and rent.
That’s exactly it, unfortunately.
And you cannot blame the moronic masses for voting for this apparently
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Yeah make sure you never ever ever ever ever ever ever blame voters. It’s always Democrats and never voters responsible. God fuck this world and every moron in it
The fact of the matter is: People need more than sticks to do anything; they need carrots. Nobody, me included, cares if you don’t like how people didn’t fear your preferred stick enough; that’s just how people work. The failure remains squarely on the DNC who, having the perfect stick in Trump, refused to prepare a carrot and opted for a piece of shit hoping to attract some flies from the neighboring mountain-sized pile of shit. Getting angry at voters is like getting angry at the wind for destroying your paper house; I mean okay but maybe don’t build a paper house?
Great mental gymnastics to pretend voters aren’t responsible for their reprehensible actions! I’ll try and adapt that to dodge blame every time I fuck up
I’m not American so I didn’t really fuck up anything. I still it’s the responsibility of candidates to get people to vote for them. I don’t care if you didn’t like it, but expecting people to vote for a pile of shit to avoid a bigger pile of shit doesn’t work, has never worked and will never work. The DNC, enabled by “hold your nose and vote for her” folks, failed to consider this basic fact and that lost them the white house and senate. Well, congrats.
Way to misunderstand the simple point
They’re not the one misunderstanding anything.
(…if slightly ableist)
White women, Hispanics, and black men all came out in droves voting for Trump.
Pour one out for America and Ukraine, and the Middle East in general. And Taiwan.
Europe and Asia, you guys better get your shit together, we might be out of this one permanently. Or we might have a very long recovery time spanning decades. Such fucking bullshit.
So, place your bets! What’s going to be that one announcement that suddenly makes your neighbours go all quiet?
- Repeal of the 19th amendment
- Mandatory military service
- Military sent to Ukraine
- Military sent to Gaza
- Additional protections to police
- The pardon of all January 6th rioters
- The relaxation of maximum presidential terms
- Repeal of Affordable Care Act
- Repeal of Social Security
- Increase in taxes of lowest and middle incomes
- Reduction in the minimum wage
- Shutdown of major news outlets of “reporting lies”
- Ban of reporting “bad news”
- New ability to farmers to hire for no wage
- New protections to reject hiring/customers/schooling based on colour
- Collapse of NOAA
- Atheists targeted as terrorists
- Democrats imprisoned for Socialist ties
- Mysterious disappearances of democrats
- Random deportation of American citizens for being first/second generation
- Removal of all laws related to carbon output
Yes, some of these are fearmongering but he’s made all sorts of promises and debts are due! The sky is the limit!
Jesus Christ, I just realized Jimmy Carted lived to see his country die.
I guess I underestimated just how many americans have a problem with a PoC + Woman candidate, perhaps it was an error from the dems to not run a white guy at this moment.
It wouldn’t have mattered.
The numbers showed turnout on the left was pathetic compared to 2020, while turnout on the right was basically the same.
The monsters always win in the long run because they’re fanatics and don’t stop to think.
Eh. This was one of the chief concerns for those of us that resisted Biden stepping down that late in the race. No time for a primary, so Harris had to be the candidate. I was pleasantly surprised at the great reception she enjoyed for the first month, but the hype obviously didn’t reach far beyond the solidly blue base.
The only reason there was not enough time was because Biden took his time abdicating. We had more than enough time for primaries had Biden stepped down earlier.
White women, latino men, etc. It’s just sad to see.
Don’t play dumb, she was unpopular with the left and did nothing to help with it. “Eat it up because otherwise it’s trump” doesn’t get you votes.
It wasn’t a good reason not to vote for her, but unfortunately is one of the reasons some people didn’t vote. She should have never gone negative and stuck to positive messaging about how they had real plans to help real people.
She should have never gone negative and stuck to positive messaging about how they had real plans to help real people.
The problem with that is that Democrats’ insistence on incrementalism in all things had destroyed their credibility when they say that they’ll help people. No, they’ll start some investigations, throw up a hurdle in their own path, gleefully announce that it’s insurmountable, and then scream that everyone who saw what they just did doesn’t know how government works.
You can’t just ignore how the government works and the fact that Democrats never had a real majority in the Senate thanks to Sinema and Manchin.
We gave Democrats enough seats. They used them predictably.
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I don’t understand why you people only kill your good presidents.
"John Kennedy, murdered. Gandhi, murdered. Martin Luther King, murdered. Jesus, murdered. Reagan, wounded.” - Bill Hicks
Because the good presidents were the ones who stood up against the evil Southern states.
At least 2 people decided to try this time
I mean… McKinley was only so/so.
Novikov self-consistency principle.
Seems to have worked for Jesus. Maybe they’re trying to bring about his second coming? Althought it thought it was the other side that was into that kind of stuff.
Listen to any random Trump speech, replace “migrants” with “jews” and you have a Hitler speech.
You can blame religion for trump. A rapist con man who never goes to church is their new jesus. What a fucking cult.
As an American, our bell was tolling long ago and so few of us cared to listen. (This is a quote from Carl Sagan’s book from nearly 20 years ago).
“I have a foreboding of an America in my children’s or grandchildren’s time – when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what’s true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness…
The dumbing down of American is most evident in the slow decay of substantive content in the enormously influential media, the 30 second sound bites (now down to 10 seconds or less), lowest common denominator programming, credulous presentations on pseudoscience and superstition, but especially a kind of celebration of ignorance”
America is likely now doomed. We’ll balkanize into minor states that join either the axis or allies of WWIII until we mostly dissolve altogether and the next wave of history and death and rolls through. Though seeing the rise of fascism on the world scale, I think we’re generally just doomed, all of us. Perhaps we’re just an avenue for AGI to wipe us out and go fight other AGIs on some intergalactic scale not much different from our own inability to get along and work together. Perhaps I’ve been drinking myself to stupor now that I see what has happened.
Well of the day comes that fascism once against rules my country, then I will not back down. I’d rather die fighting and struggling against them my head held high than to bend my back and obey them. Fuck that, I’d rather not be remembered at all than to be remembered as a collaborator or neutral party.
