And this is constitutional how exactly?
There is a precedent for lawlessness. Literally anything is constitutional now, you just do it and ignore the court ruling. Where have you been the last decade?
Last civil war was about state rights to own slaves. Now its state right to avoid trade distribution?
My god the writers need to be fired.
How 'bout religious awakening against trump?
Isn’t it for trump?
Yes, but remember the Jews are a very crafty folk. They are building their plot of canonization through trump - however their is one other person that could supercede his religious seat.
The right name, at the right time, in the right place makes all the difference.
However normal people are so antichristian without even trying to understand the reasoning behind a christian book. Which I find really frustrating, as they don’t understand it is pivotal to capturing the world’s heart. It has been used as the archetype for the modern worker and their submission. Submission to each other is kindness, and peaceful. However, we are forced to submit to a faceless corporation, for which we must revere, fear, and hold above all else while in position. Essentially making a false god in all but name, however this unbreathing beast controls your lives.
Turmoil has engulfed the United States of America. The taxation of trade routes is in dispute.
And big money in politics. I’d argue Citizens United was the Dread Scott of our time.
cExit?
While I agree with telling Trump to go lick Elon’s balls, states are specifically forbidden from entering into trade agreements with foreign countries by the Constitution. To do this, California would need to be willing to secede from the Union. I’m okay with it.
California produces 10% of American agricultural needs. If they secede it would be way worse on the economy than these tariffs.
I think if California were to secede, Oregon and Washington probably would too. A lot of blue states that border Canada would also probably Jump ship. New York and Michigan might secede too. Those 5 states make up almost 30% of America’s economy and are the center of very lucrative industries like the movie industry, automotive industry, electronics and software industries, the global financial industry. Those 5 states would do just fine without the United States but the United states would be an unimportant backwater without them.
Unfortunately this runs into constitutional problems. While the spineless subhuman creatures in congress and the supreme court seem to have no problem with Trump and his administration ignoring the constitution I fully expect them to come down hard on any state that does so (at least in cases that go against Trump and his policies).
If the union doesn’t provide any benefits and only costs money and prevents your state from functioning as well as it could and the union only makes solutions harder to solve … why stay in the union?
States stay together because of mutual benefit, not because of a document or promises.
And you could force a state to stay in a union by force but the cost of doing that far outweighs the benefits of a peaceful union.
Don’t forget they’re Democrats.
When the courts rule against them they’ll just meekly comply.
Is your state governor doing anything to oppose Trump?
If memory serves right the person you are responding to is probably British. Or at the very least I don’t think they are American, so don’t take much of what they have to say particularly seriously.
See my other response to peregrin5 but in addition you’re assuming rational actors all around. Actual reality is far more messy with many of those involved making decisions based more on feelings than any in depth reasoning. States stay together because there’s no obvious alternative. There’s no mechanism for a state to leave the union and doing so requires solving many problems that have no obvious answers.
They could implement this by just not charging the duties at the ports in California and see who blinks first.
Do they have control over that? I assumed that was handled by feds
Federal and local government are likely both involved. With the doge cuts, who knows how many boots they actually have on the ground for this these days?
Don’t have to care about being unconstitutional if you’re not part of the union.
Republicans would absolutely love it if the most populous state that consistently sends huge numbers of Democratic representatives to DC was out of the picture. You think Democrats can’t do shit now, see what happens when you lose 40+ democrats from the House.
Won’t matter to me. We’ll leave to US to the Republicans.
Yeah, I’m not cool with leaving my friends and family to just die because they don’t live in CA.
Tell them to move.
Yarvin’s technobrocratic dystopia will have a bunch of these little states run by CEOs, and you wouldn’t have any voice in how it’s run, but you would be free to leave. Is that what you want?
That wouldn’t be happening because they don’t live in CA, it would happen because of Trump who exists in this role whether CA leaves the union or not.
Do more democratic Senators and Representatives do anything or not? Because 6 months ago it was vote blue no matter who, now suddenly it doesn’t matter if we jettison 2 Democratic senators and 40+ Democratic reps as long as you get yours.
That’s great in theory but just as unrealistic in practice for California as it always has been for Texas. The single biggest stumbling block for any state to leave the union for any reason is the military. Most of the other problems can be resolved within the borders of the state, but the disposition of existing and theoretical new military hardware, personnel, and bases will always be a sticking point even assuming the federal government and the other states are willing to let them leave.
Any attempt to leave the US that has any hope of succeeding would be a very long and protracted process that would make Brexit look breakneck in comparison. We’re talking at least a couple decades at a minimum.
It’s either that or another civil war and that has so many variables I’m not sure anyone has any hope of predicting how that would turn out.
That’s the problem … if you are damned if you stay and damned if you leave … everyone starts weighing the options of either situation
The choices for staying become … stay and beholden to federal government that ties your hands, manipulates your economy and uses you for their benefit while never allowing you to do what your people want for themselves
or … secede and fight a political, economic and possibly even a military conflict to decide your own future
either options is terrible in the long run (if things continue as they are) but staying means things stay indefinitely terrible while seceding gives a higher chance of political autonomy.
If you’re going that far, why wouldn’t you want the other states? Just take over the whole government instead of trying to secede.
Seems like it would be easier to untangle from the U.S. military if the California populace had access to… something… maybe something that throws metal really fast? Idk
Water is more of an issue than the military. The US relies heavily on California for food so that would be a bargaining chip.
That’s how you get invaded by the military
Thankfully CA can fund its.own military once we no longer need to send charity to all the red states with dirt for an economy. Actually, our police forces in the state routinely spend more money than entire foreign militaries. I’m sure with a couple trade deals and strategic defense pacts that California can easily become it’s own country.
Economics in general. California is responsible for a significant chunk of the entire US GDP as well as being one of the primary shipping hubs. My point was more along the lines that these other problems are tractable, you could for instance negotiate trade deals between the rest of the US and California. The military on the other hand is a much tougher problem akin to unscrambling an egg. There’s no obvious way to disentangle California from the greater US military.
Any military option automatically removes any economic benefits that could have been possible in peace time. As soon as any conflict appears, everyone will spend more money on fighting, defending that in saving or creating profit. No matter who may “win”, everyone will lose and it would take decades to recover from it.
Did you mean to respond to someone else? This seems like a bit of a non-sequitur from my comment.
California’s food industry relies heavily on water from out of state, if those rivers dried up because flow got restricted to a trickle, it would be bad for their industry. None of this would happen without violent conflict though. Remember when the north burned the south to the ground? That is our historical precedent for how to respond to secession.
I could see Oregon and Washington State throwing in with Cali, giving all of them a direct line to nice fresh Canadian Rocky BC Springs because we up here in Canada would be an instant ally of any states that broke off.
Most of Oregon hates Portland these days, and I grew up in Portland. But I don’t think secession would be up to a vote, it would be decided by violence like it always has been. That doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be successful, but I think Portland would still be burned to the ground.
That’s always been the case that the rural backwater hillbilly sister-fucking areas hate the cities. The same is true in California. But it doesn’t matter because there are more people in the cities so they have more power so the yokels can’t do shit.
Much of the agricultural land would be fine. However the population centers in SoCal would have to make drastic cuts without the Colorado River.
California is at the forefront of water conservation recycling in the US, and supports energy self sufficiency. The water issue is a problem, but not nearly as big as you might think. The state and water districts regularly fund new technologies and invest in storage. It would suck for a while, but in the long run, freedom from federal system might actually speed up changes that need to be made anyway.
We could do without almonds and wine. The US has more than enough soybeans and corn and wheat and potatoes go around. Nobody is going to starve without California’s agriculture.
Why are you growing water intensive almonds in what should be a desert anyway?
Most vegetables and fruit not imported from Mexico are grown in California. Enjoy your scurvy.
The single biggest stumbling block for any state to leave the union for any reason is the military. Most of the other problems can be resolved within the borders of the state, but the disposition of existing and theoretical new military hardware, personnel, and bases will always be a sticking point even assuming the federal government and the other states are willing to let them leave.
I mean it’s California. At that point just get a few neighboring states on board, take all the military hardware and shit and be like “Wanna go to war over it?”.
Civil war it is.
Leaving the union? Yep you guessed it, unconstitutional. Secession would absolutely cause a war
Would you rather be complicit with fascism or fight for something better?
Also, you’re overlooking how much CA funds the rest of the nation. Flyover states do not function without funding from states like CA and TX. Take the west coast from the rest of the US and all that’s left struggles to qualify as third world lmfao
So? It’s probably worth it at this point. I’d enlist.
Yeah, if things were so bad that you were considering secession you might as well cut to the chase and just try to overthrow the US government because they would absolutely go after you hard
P.s. for any government officials who read the above comment, I’m not advocating for overthrow of your stupid little clubhouse, I’m pointing out why secession is a bad idea. Also, quit wasting my tax dollars looking at stupid shit.
Let the feds try to enforce it then. Texas immigration officers basically kicked the feds out when they started doing federally illegal shit, the federal government is barely held together these days. Force them to do something about it. If the flow of money between California and the US stops, California is the big winner so they have all the leverage in the world.
The article states California is negotiating with other countries to exclude California from those countries’ retaliatory tarrifs on US goods.
There’s nothing the federal government can do about that.
They did it during the pandemic, the union is quite literally dissolving before our very eyes.
The Trump administration has demonstrated that the constitution doesn’t really matter. Why keep pretending like this is some sort of sacred immutable text? The spell has been lifted.
Just because Trump and his goons are ignoring it doesn’t mean his cronies in congress and the supreme court won’t still use it to attack anyone they want to.
yes, without any shared understanding around whether we enforce all laws or just some, law books are just reems of scratchy toilet paper. So are everyones holy books, and any international agreements we have.
Trump doesnt care about laws and law enforcement has openly hated the public for a long time. Their oaths to serve the law are a vanity that they jettison whenever its convenient.
And Biden/Harris violating god knows how many genocide and arms laws for zionist $ and then losing the election and support across every voting demographic didnt help matters. I wish I could go back in time to the day Obama picked Biden as his running mate and shake Obama until he picks someone else.
Constitution? What constitution ?
What’s good for the goose…
Thank goodness now we are talking. Time for California to move past the Orange Turd.
Turd gonna clamp down on California. He’s got to. Otherwise he loses grip.
Other states should join in. It’s going to be rough no matter how you slice it, but I’d rather the states take the fight to him and the feds. Start controlling the narrative and take it away from the idiots.
No question.
What’s really to keep states with ports from just taking over Customs, especially with doge firing and closing federal agencies? If the states control their ports they control what gets tagged for tariffs, or am I wrong?
The tighter his grip the more states that will slip through his tiny fingers.
California ! Uber Alles !
Unironically ? I’m so confused
Fun fact Deutschland Uber Alles was originally a call for German unification during the early 1800s and was originally a German republican rallying cry.
It’s a Dead Kennedys song reference that ironically did the German thing because of the governors (at the time) presidential goals and associated policies
Now it’s still relevant but
I kinda like it ?
I’m confused
Have never listened to the dead Kennedys so I kinda couldn’t get the reference so thanks for the context.
Edit: Who the fuck downvoted me? Why the fuck did ya downvoted me? Im 25 sorry I don’t listen to the dead Kennedys I guess?
wanna join EU? ( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
Already looking into it…
Kudos to California. The neo-Nazi filled MAGA is all about state rights and I hope they tell California to secede.
Here we go, dissolution of the U.S. is starting. It’s a slow roll, but i think that’s where we are headed
I would love to visit the country of California.
We’ve been heading there for a long time and much of the rest of the world has been feeding into the two-sides divide. It’s easier to see when you already loathe both sides for different reasons. But the US has been a powerhouse many would love to see taken down. Generations of work towards that are paying off, and the US working class will suffer the most.
Well the south finally will get to leave the union and form florida-man-istan, jesus-wasteland-istan and all-hat-no-cattle-istan. Good luck to them. We should have a going away party before we put up a wall to keep them from trying to get back in.
The US has been there before with the Nullification Crisis of 1832. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullification_crisis?wprov=sfla1
I guess history really does rhyme.
Sadly it’s a near inevitable outcome of an overly powerful Federal Government attempting to deal with a population this large. The more powerful the Federal Government gets the less able it is to balance the different desires of its citizens and the less popular it becomes.
The solution was to NOT have such a powerful Federal Government but we tossed that out the window around somewhere between 1900 and 1920. It may not happen now over this but the clock is ticking and it’s going to happen at some point over something.
It will be terrifying and terrible when it happens.
A lot of this could be fixed by reforming the senate which is a big part of why that will never happen.
been thinking and saying for years that we’re on the path to a soviet style balkanization. just wasn’t sure what would be the spark. this certainly smells like one.
If Texas somehow joins California, were fucked
I think it would be much more likely for the west coast as a whole to split. WA, OR, CA
Suck it, Manifest Destiny!
Texas? Unlikely
I think that’s a reference to the Civil War movie a while back.
Bingo
Will it be California first? Or maybe Alaska? Hawaii? We know one’s gonna try and split, just not which.
Cheeto will ‘gift’ Russia Alaska for its help with Greenland
How would a state secede from the US? Like, what’s the actual process?
The best way would be quiet quitting. Making routes to federal buildings surrounded by construction and road closures at odd times. Overlapping federal job descriptions internally and never communicating with federal equivalents unless required, and that with a “great email, still working on that!” Or “emailed Oregon about that and they had some great ideas, get with them for the data!”
Offering great state guard contracts to all military eligible to re-up, that exceed what the feds offer. Build out coastal protection fleet due to “them darn migrants.” Train your military in FPV as if you were what the US should be doing right now, so the feds know any pushback will be costly, and you’re not breaking any laws anyway, remember?
Tell your state and local police we don’t work with the FBI or IRS in cooperation any more, and let the populace know the feds must individually enforce all tax law. That’s where it’s good for the Feds to remember that’s not required, and the 4th amendment prevents them being forced to act… in fact, that makes them subject to arrest for trying due to the laws of the great state of california.
All legal, and petty. But legal.
Legally, a state can’t secede really, but the other states could agree to let it go. It would require a Constitutional Convention, which would require 2/3 of states to agree to let it go.
Ah yes. “legally”.
Newsom is directing his state to pursue “strategic” relationships with countries announcing retaliatory tariffs against the U.S., urging them to exclude California-made products from those taxes.
It sounds like he wants foreign countries to do California a favor without getting anything in exchange (and even that might be unconstitutional). Or is there something that he has the authority to offer in exchange which I’m missing?
CA sales tax averages 10%. While it’s nowhere on the scale of the tariffs, it could offset the impact significantly if reduced or eliminated for goods coming from specific countries.
Additionally, the government of CA has enormous purchasing power. Directing where that money goes could serve to be a powerful tool in mitigating the trade war.
Plus, one element that most folks don’t think about is the financial weight of the CalPERS retirement fund. This organization controls a huge amount of investment money subject to state regulations as to where its invested. Opening up that revenue stream to select foreign companies could be a mighty tasty carrot.
Not disputing most of you point, but the sales tax in California does not average 10%. I live here, and don’t think I’ve ever paid more that 9. Most of the time, it’s lower than 8.
It widely varies by county.
“United” States stands divided. It just gets worse…and at an incredible speed. It’s always quicker and easier to demolish as opposed to building. Every one wants the easy money and the quick buck without a balanced expenditure of energy.
No politician in California is going to criticize the lack proper vote counting techniques in the USA states that caused this harm. This is because Californian leadership is in thrall to the oligarchs.
Also the man saying this is not the type of person to get out of the safe zone.
I’m not quite sure why people are thinking anything significant can or will happen. The United States cannot change at all
All hail The New California Republic. But in all seriousness, it wouldn’t surprise me if the United States has a balkanization event happen in the near future.
The US does not need balkanization.
We have a single region that has been rebellious and trying to corrupt and destroy the rest of the union since the founding, because they cannot see any governmental or religious structure as legitimate unless it is founded on the principles of racism. This is their own words.
Lincoln was wrong to readmit the south, we should have let Sherman finish then build a wall around them, while letting any slaves who wanted to escape do so.
Either that or we need to restart reconstruction today with absolute brutality.
Before they committed treason against the US alone, this time they allied with Russia to bring us down.
We have a single region that has been rebellious and trying to corrupt and destroy the rest of the union since the founding
Isn’t a ton of the current Trump administration rot coming from Silicon Valley?
Isn’t Silicon Valley in California?
Lincoln was wrong to readmit the south
The South was under the Reconstruction plan, complete with Marshall Law and Freedman’s Bureaus and all sorts of additional federal oversight, untilThe Compromise of 1877 gave Rutherford B. Hayes the presidency at the cost of his soul.
Lincoln didn’t simply readmit the South. He readmitted 9 million enslaved Americans as proper first class citizens. And the initial wave of democratization gave birth to a brief but generally optimistic egalitarian glimpse of a potential future.
Lincoln’s big mistake was not putting Smedly Butler into his VP seat. Letting the country revert to Andrew Johnson was the big blunder. One that Grant had to spend two terms mopping up.
But that’s all distant history. The modern fascist presidency is born out of Manhattan Island. The modern Texas/Florida/Ohio Axis of Evil is a product of Yale Business School. Stanford Alumni are fucking us up far more today than some Daughters of the Confederacy could have dreamed.
This isn’t a North/South problem. It’s a turf war between extractive industry and the professional class.
Yeah, because if there’s two things we know silicon valley loves it’s the core issues of the Trump administrafion:
-
Immigration restrictions
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Tariffs
He was voted in purely about the south, who are not only fascists to the core (if what they consider to be Christo-fascists).
The thing is: their religion, the southern Baptist church, was founded because they wanted a religion whose core dogma was that slavery was a commandment from God. Hence their basing the Sbc around the curse of Ham justifying slavery. The nazis themselves based the Nuremberg Laws off Jim crow, only without the 1 drop rule.
This is 100% the south, the restriction of women’s rights, the anti-lgbt, racism, isolation ism.
They’ve been sold that Russia is their best ally because it is the last True (read: white) Christian Nation fighting against the atheist and Muslim hordes who have infested Europe.
Silicon valley doesn’t want any of this bullshit, they just want less regulation. This has been a nightmare for them, Europe is starting their own competitors and regulating the cloud providers.
Silicon valley is smart, this whole thing has the backwards inbred balls-over-brains energy of the south.
Show me one Manhattan anyone who thinks those tariffs are a good idea.
Super popular in the south though, finally those rich northerners will have to pay them to do the work, instead of buying stuff from the dirty Mexicans.
there’s two things we know silicon valley loves it’s the core issues of the Trump administrafion:
Immigration restrictionsTariffsGo pick up a copy of The Network State
Are you fucking insane?
The ceos of most tech companies are Asian!
Google, Microsoft, Nvidia.
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I dont think the lines are the same anymore. Social media and 24/7 news has given people in plenty of northern regions the same viewpoints. A civil war would not be north vs. south. it would be neighbor vs neighbor
I always hear this.
I am brown and grew up in the Midwest.
Then my family moved to the south.
This is like comparing Canadians who care about hockey with the Khmer Rouge exterminating much of their population.
The south is just infinitely worse in literally every way.
there are a lot of nice people in the south. there are a lot of brown people in the south. you think everyone needs to suffer brutality for what the worst do?
In the Midwest there are bad people too.
The difference?
In the Midwest when a racist is being a racist, people say shit, they stand up to them!
In the south the bystanders just laugh, at worst they laugh nervously.
Which is why it’s a vile and corrupt society.
Police yourself, or don’t be surprised to be judged as evil.
