I replied to someone saying that the USSR defeated the Nazis saying that it was a group effort. Got into an argument and called a Nazi repeatedly because “I was mad that the USSR defeated the Nazis and hated them for it” which is ridiculous. This isn’t the first time that’s happened on Lemmy. What’s up with that?
The comments have turned into a debate, and we all know what .ml is like. This post would’ve been better suited to [email protected] or [email protected].
It’s generating unnecessary reports, wasting our time.
Locking.
Modern nazi revisionism is that the 1939 Germany-USSR pact means they were BFFs. It appears you would have repeated the nonsense. Generally, that nonsense is encouraged on this server, but not .ml . It’s not clear which worldnews banned you.
if .ml, you would not have been banned for headline. But perhaps you included common cluelessness you would be unaware of.
It’s not true. Even if it was the Soviets there were millions of human hands involved
deleted by creator
it’s hard to tell why because all of your comments have been deleted
Deleted for saying the Soviets didn’t win the war singlehandedly.
Should still be in the modlog, right?
Lemmy.ml is a no go zone for those not drinking the eastern fascists wearing a communist mask kool-aid.
Let me guess you’re American and you voted for genocide.
Everyone voted for genocide in our glorious two party system! We are so efficient in the US that we’ve decided to head towards a one party government. Im sure a artificially limited number of political parties is not an issue with democrats. 1 is only 1 less then 2 after all, hardly a difference.
Dont worry blue maga, you will be able to earn your incremental change in republican primaries. I’m excited to see how the pros do it.
the total USSR causalities were around 27 million, western allies casualties were a combined 1.7 million in all theaters.
calling it a ‘group effort’ does imply an equal contribution, which is what gets peoples hackles up.
The Soviet tendency to throw bodies at a problem until it went away is largely to blame for their high casualties though. And without allied support they’d have lost even more.
The Soviet tendency to throw bodies at a problem
that is just dehumanizing. the front was extremely brutal and most of the fighting and dying happened there as a result.
stalingrad was where things turned in 1942-1943, lend lease was arriving but was not exactly significant until after 1943. soviet commanders did acknowledge the value of the lend lease, but the way it’s been spun since then is like someone showing up to a group project late, doing a fraction of the work and trying to claim the spotlight afterwards.
that is just dehumanizing
The USSR was good at that
but the way it’s been spun since then is like someone showing up to a group project late, doing a fraction of the work and trying to claim the spotlight afterwards.
Sure, if you ignore North Africa, Western Europe, and the Pacific Theatre.
This whole “the US showed up late and claimed victory” narrative is just as stupid as acting like the USSR didn’t do anything.
Sure, if you ignore North Africa, Western Europe, and the Pacific Theatre.
27 million to 1.7 million losses in all theaters. the eastern front was 70-80% of the entire german war effort. The lend lease didn’t even arrive in significant amounts until after the battle for stalingrad.
the original comment you replied to that started this off was this:
they [the US] didn’t win wwii, the soviets did.
you have managed to really move the goalposts in your pity thread
The USSR having no concern for their own fighting men is not a plus towards this argument. Germany lost 3-4 million on that front. 3-4 million in comparison to 27 million shows that the Soviet strategy of throwing wave after wave of bodies was a bad strategy.
It was a good strategy. Because they, ya know, won the fucking war. Jesus christ, lmao.
the 27 million includes approximately 16-19 million civilians who were systematically exterminated or died under occupation.
blaming soviet military strategy for those deaths is historically illiterate. the nazi invasion was explicitly genocidal in intent, those civilians weren’t casualties of soviet tactics.
Okay? That still doesn’t mean that the Soviets won the war singlehandedly, which is the argument that was being made. Around 11 million Soviet soldiers and sailors were lost. The only excuse for that is strategy. Losing 11 million to 4 million is , frankly, awful and the only reason they didn’t lose completely was that they had the numbers.
It’s throwing bodies at a problem when Russia defeats the Nazis, but it’s waves of brave men sacrificing themselves when it’s America defeating Japan.
Strange how that works isn’t it?
Hey look, Hexbear is directly attacking you and calling you a Nazi for… checks notes saying Soviets helped with the war? https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/76613775
No, for repeating the “human wave” myth which is ahistorical nonsense.
guy is a specialist in selective comprehension. i can’t even be mad, he’s too pathetic
It also goes to show how the USSR needed the help and without it being a group effort the citizens of the USSR would have suffered even more.
i’m not going to deny that the USSR would have suffered more without lend-lease, but that’s true of any alliance member receiving material support.
the issue i see is that when people talk about this, 27 million to 1.7 million loss ratio gets passed through the narrative and emerges as an equal partnership. Yes the USSR got like 10 billion in material from the US, but the eastern front was 70-80% of the entire german war effort. The lend lease didn’t even arrive in significant amounts until after the battle for stalingrad.
the OOP comment that OP replied to was this, on the subject of how the US hasn’t won a war:
they [the US] didn’t win wwii, the soviets did.
d-day could not have happened without the soviets turning the tide on their own. you can call it a group effort but that makes it sound like it was equal participation.
Girl, I’m not here to downplay the contributions of the USSR nor did I. I’m also not OOP. I know basic history. You already said that you object to calling it a group effort. What was the point of this comment?
I also never downplayed their contribution.
What kind of a person reads about a huge number of dead humans and thinks “ah, a contribution to the war effort”. That explains so much, really.
honestly an incredible comment to make while the OP is talking about “The Soviet tendency to throw bodies at a problem”, just feels performative.
the point was that the eastern front was 70-80% of the german war effort and OP was replying to someone saying:
they [the US] didn’t win wwii, the soviets did.
Don’t take it personal. There are some deep Tankie holes on Lemmy, primarily .lm, they’d even take offense if you were suggesting, that maybe not absolutely everything is splendid in North Korea and I am not kidding or exaggerating here.
There are some deep Tankie holes on Lemmy
Deep Tankie Holes are what I’m calling my Lemmy moderator themed porno
Are you looking for talent?
Yeah, what talents you got?
You think they’re bad at ml? Wait till you get a load of hexbear.
I like hexbear’s cute pictures. They, unfortunately, do not like me. That’s okay, it is their instance to run after all. They should run it how they want.
Its not like they purposely built a secret ban list in server hosting software and tried to hide it from the people who downloaded it.
I’m glad we can all find common ground on the “admiral Patrick is a douchebag” front.
Fr, I despise the Tankie devs authoritarianism, but at the very least they don’t do some shady reddit corpo shit with their code (for the most part)
They are so weird there. They were arguing that North Korea is definitely not an authoritarian regime and also definitely not starving their citizens or some stupid shit, and one of them started yelling about how I probably believed North Koreans all had the same haircut because of the mainstream media, which I… didn’t, but I said if they did, it wouldn’t be crazy because they have less diverse media to access, but also that wouldn’t have anything to do with why North Korea’s government is bad, but I was just so confused why they were mad about it.
Ah shit, I think I was the guy you responded too! Sorry about what happened. I upvoted your reply. You are right, the Soviets had a lot of help. I just meant they bore most of the brunt of the war in Europe and that I, as an 80s kid, was never taught this in history class.
No, it wasn’t you. These guys were calling me a Nazi for saying it was a group effort.
One was called EmmiLime and the other was Gary_Host_Laptop
Gary host is the hardcore tankie mod of .mls memes comm (and a few others iirc)
That explains a lot.
This thread is making me lose brain cells.
Ho so?
So many bad takes.
Like what?
“Everyone’s blocklist should look exactly like mine.”
I try not to engage on politics here. Waste of my time and makes me just feel bad in general.
Thanks for adding nothing.
No problem.
In that case, it seems weird to have commented at all.
That’s fine. You can think of it what you want.
then why did you comment?
look, poland being carved up by the nazis and stalin is history. it’s not a bad take, it’s literally history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov–Ribbentrop_Pact
the ML people are bonkers.
Because I didn’t think a short comment expressing my feelings would be such a big deal that multiple people come to complain about it.
There are schools of thought here and the tankies add their own brand of insanity to it. The Soviets contributed the most and lost the most. Without the Eastern front, the war couldn’t have been won.
They only lost the most due to their tendency to throw bodies at a problem until it went away. They didn’t have to lose so many.
Sadly not true. It’s explain some but not all of their loss
Lend-lease went a long way towards remedying that, though. Hence my entire group effort argument. The Russians rolled into Berlin in Studebakers after all.
They were severely under equiped. Hitler sent almost everyone east near the end. As with most things, the issue is complex and multifaceted.
The “human wave” thing is a myth. It’s true that the Soviets were under-equipped at the start due to having to develop from a pre-industrial society, and it’s also true that they were militarily inexperienced, partially because of the officer purges.
However, if you actually look into to Soviet strategies and tactics, they innovated and adapted quickly. They kept meticulous, accurate records, and learned from their mistakes in an almost scientific way. The most notorious blunder was at Stalingrad, and was a result of Stalin meddling with the Red Army and pressuring them instead of letting them do their thing, but after that, he backed off.
A typical Soviet battle plan involved holding a wave in reserve until a breach was made in enemy defenses, then sending them forward to do as much damage as possible to the rear line and support. Then, they would evaluate whether they could hold the position against reinforcements, and retreat if necessary, satisfied with the damage.
This can be starkly contrasted with the Nazi approach to war. The Nazis did not put emphasis on supply lines or support, instead glorifying the image of the heroic ubermensch on the front lines. Nazi battle records were completely inaccurate, focused entirely on trying to avoid or shift blame to avoid reprecussions. The idea of retreating from a position before reinforcements showed up would be unthinkable, you’d be shot for cowardice.
Technologically, where the Soviets focused on building things that were cheap, efficient, easy to mass produce and repair, because they saw war as being primarily about logistics (being communists, and understanding labor as a driving force ideologically), Nazi technology was over engineered and difficult to both repair and produce. Nazi tanks were designed to look, feel, and be powerful (to accommodate their individualistic power fantasies, again, in line with their ideology), and when they worked and could be fielded they performed well, but they could not be produced in anything like the same numbers (once Soviet manufacturing capabilities had time to catch up).
The reality is that the heavy Soviet losses included a lot of civilian casualties, because the Nazis were genocidal and exterminationist. They slaughtered villages en masse, just for being, in their eyes, racially inferior. A very significant chunk of Soviet territory was subject to the Holocaust. This “human wave” narrative, on top of being completely ahistorical and not supported by evidence, also downplays the severity of Nazi war crimes.
First, some people on lemmy are simply stupid. Doesn’t make sense to engage with everyone.
Second, a lot of people on lemmy like to ignore what you really say and find some hidden messages everywhere. “You didn’t say you hate X so you must love Y, you nazi/homophobe/racist/communist/whatever”. Not much you can do about it. It’s best to just block them.
no idea. yeah everyone knows they allied with them initially and then had to fight when germany attacked them. I mean lets not forget that western powers where appeasing until like poland and the us came latest of all. But you would have to be an idiot to not see that it was the us that tipped the scales and basically stopped them.
hahaha yeah amerikkka rly tipped the scales coming in at the very end just in time to claim credit and not actually do shit, liberals 🤣
The very end? The US entered the war in 1941. The war ended in 1945.
Yeah. Welcome to lemmy.ml
Many of us just block all the communities of lemmy.ml. this way you are out of reach of the tankie mods.
Unfortunately, lemmy.ml is one of the big instances, so you’re also cutting a big chunk of Lemmy content. But if enough people join the ml boycott (there are already a lot of people that block ml), eventually ml will shrink and other more sensible instances will prevail.
Why come to a Marxist website and then block the Marxist creators lmfao. Just go back to reddit.
If only. .ml is a bunch blind nut jobs,that’s it. There is no actually goal.
Have another drink, Ray.
I’m not in a Marxist website. Notice how my name doesn’t end in “Lemmy.ml”, “Lemmygrad.org” or “hexbear.net”. :)
Also Marxist and tankie is not the same thing. I could be a Marxist and still call out the boot licking tankieness going on in .ml
Who created lemmy, lol?
A tankie did. But Lemmy is not a website. You were talking about websites. The website my account is in is lemmy.world. which is not run by tankies. And tankies do not have any moderation power. Why would a non-tankie avoid a website that is not run or moderated by tankies?
I just see a lot of tankies because Lemmy is a federated system, and one of the big instances is controlled by tankies. I can just block that instance’s communities (as I already do) and move on with my life without being fed tankie-curated-and-moderated content.
Your condescending and pedantic tone is so cliche, lmao.
Well, the tone seems appropriate to your behaviour.
My behaviour being?
If you’re starting your interaction with me by telling me to go away, then I’m gonna hit you with all the pedantry I can possibly throw out at once.
If you want respectful conversation, don’t start by being disrespectful :)
I expected nothing less!
Actually, according to lemmyverse.net (great place for comm discovery btw!) and my own experience cross posting .ml content, .ml is almost entirely held up by a core set of the most diehard tankie users. Most .ml comms are overshadowed by comms on other instances with much higher Monthly Active Users numbers.
The comm search field goes by pure subscriber count which doesn’t really decrease for any reason other than a user actually unsubscribing from a comm so all of those insane numbers on some .ml comms are just overinflated and don’t reflect actual traffic. It’s full of dead and/or banned accounts, alts and some still active users
World news is modded by zionists, or is this a different world news? Lemmy has like a lot with similar names. It’s a thing on here too, although less so. Especially on world news with zionists.
It’s the .ml one
They are aggressive in making sure their sheep do not get counter manipulated.
