LW and the tankie triad hold 40% of the monthly active userbase of Lemmy.
Going to lock this. I’ll remove future posts that use the ‘tankie triad’ pejorative. Please keep it to meanwhileongrad or tankjerk, it’s needlessly divisive and we have more than enough posts here bemoaning the tankies.
Is lemm.ee not one of the larger instances? I never see it in these memes but I thought it was like the second largest instance
Lemmy.ml is actually the second largest general instance.
Depends how you count “largest”. If you go by active users, fediverse observer says lemm.ee is second: https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/list
- lemmy.world 19182
- lemm.ee 8037
- lemmynsfw.com 3789
- sh.itjust.works 2977
- lemmy.ml 2430
Lemmy nsfw is way more active than I would have guessed. I guess the internet is for porn after all.
So grab your dick and double-click for porn, porn, porn.
I would bet it’s close to the top for actual posts made. It’s not like there’s much drive to comment over there.
I think NSFW is also going to have more people creating a local login rather than browsing with their main, boosting it somewhat
Its close to it, but it has better moderation and is far smaller than lw.
I think we should change our strategy here. Let the currently popular instances be popular, but instead create a site to suggest lemmy instances and then randomize the order they show up in the suggestions.
Don’t try and pull people who already have accounts from the existing instances to build the smaller instances. Try and direct the incoming growth to the smaller instances, instead.
Aim for growth instead of cannibalism.
The issue from the beginning was that people wanted to pick where there were already discussions. .world had already started growing a lot more, so new users gravitated to that. As drama happened, there was some splintering, but since you can’t take your history and account with you, there was also resistance to move. What you suggest was discussed during the first big migration to the Fediverse for Lemmy, but it takes time to put things in place and it was already too late to really fix the lopsidedness of who was where.
It’s still a good idea for new users, maybe instead of randomizing have a way to categorize the types of instances and their rules, so people go where they’ll be the happiest. The best way to fix the problem though is to come up with a secure and privacy protecting way to fully move a user from instance to instance. Good luck with that.
The issue on the beginning was that all the instances were way too restrictive on worldview or goal. It makes sense to put communities on them, but it doesn’t make sense to join them as users.
The 2 instances that were aimed at the general public, world and ee grew to be the 1st and 2nd largest ones…
Try and direct the incoming growth to the smaller instances, instead.
That’s why I exclusively post on smaller instances from now on.
I’m doing my part!
Thank you for choosing well!
Wait wait, I will invoke them.
Hasan
I know what you mean, but it’s not like Voat the last time I left Reddit. There are nutters and instances full of nutters, but it seams Lemmy can self regulated better.
I get that people enjoy bashing the “tankie triad” at every opportunity and all, but bringing them up in this circumstance doesn’t really make sense. It’s not like people are flocking to them in droves, you only end up there if you really want to. Lemm.ee and sh.itjust.works are both bigger than lemmy.ml at this point and I wouldn’t call the 500 or so MAUs on Lemmygrad a problematic over-concentration of users. That’s less than 1% of the user base. Hexbear’s recent MAU stats are hard to find but even if we’re generous and say it’s 2k that’s like 3% of the user base.
Lemmy.world alone is like 33% of the user base, that is the real problem here.
Lemmy.world alone is like 33% of the user base, that is the real problem here.
Ugh, you’d think that number would be lower after their handling of the luigi talk. Also, hexbear has 2k users? I think I could almost name the ones I see regularly, and that’s definitely lower than 30 or so.
Hexbear is more self-sufficient and thus most users stay on local or Grad. It was its own thing for years before it ever started federating, and as a result is self-sustainable.
What happened with luigi and .world?
They claimed the rules in their home nation needed them to delete almost all pro Luigi posts and comments. In any case they did delete most Luigi content. I deleted my Lemmy.world account after that, I’m not here for censorship
Damn time to swap instances, thank you
Damn I missed all that drama completely (though I do tend to avoid political subs). That’s really disappointing.
What, really? You take a week off.
A week off Lemmy? Probably not
Hexbear used to have like 1.5k back in the day I think and I assumed they’d grown a bit, but I couldn’t find any recent data from a cursory web search so could be way off base there.
I see way way more people complaining about tankies then I do actual tankies and I’m on one of the “tankie” instances. I usually just browse /all though so maybe that’s why ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
deleted by creator
Something something “they turned off their bots to cool off” or whatever they said when people took a break from the internet when Trump won.
hexbear doesn’t seem to have a nodeinfo.
Lookin at you, lemmy.world/c/cat! xD
The solution is so easy, we just need a quickly digestible post that can be posted to Reddit and be immediately grokked. I propose the following: (hem, hem)
- You there, Canadian! Go to lemmy.ca!
- You there, Britanian! Go to feddit.uk!
- You there, Germanian! Go to feddit.org!
- You there, American! I… salutations.
- and so forth…
I really think it will drive up the numbers without any confusion
There is also another German instance discuss.tchncs.de by Milan Ihl. I migrated here when feddit.de’s admin disappeared and feddit.org didn’t exist yet. I’m pretty happy so far, Milan is doing a good job. Only once (that I noticed) his Hetzner server went down for a few hours, but thanks to the status page it was at least obvious and he also fixed it quickly.
Du där, svenne! Gå till feddit.nu
Eh ! Toi, le Franco ! Viens sur jlai.lu !
You there, Dane! Go to feddit.dk!
I have been saying this for years. We need themed instances. People keep wanting to make general purpose Lemmy instances, then wonder why everyone ends up on the de facto main instance. Somebody open sportslemmy.sports or fedimusic.song and you’ll start getting folks 1. tripping over the sign-up process less and 2. actually spreading out.
It’s Brit/Briton and German, fyi.
Speak not to me in the low-tongue, Arcanian!
You could probably send most americans to midwestsocial
You there, the Australian! Go to aussie.zone!
Honest question, when I signed up for an account years ago I had no idea where or really how to sign up. Is the lemmy.world instance I’m registered on a dumpster fire? Seriously, do I need to change that sh*t?
There’s nothing wrong with world, except for it being always overloaded by too many users.
You don’t need to move if you don’t want to. There is some problems with it, so I recommend newcomers to avoid it.
Mainly technical issues from its size.
I don’t like how ban-happy they got over Luigi
Also they seem too big, to have too heavy control by its admins
I second this question
Nah, people tend to dislike too much centralization because it puts a lot of eggs in one basket both by number of users and by the volume of content. If .world went down, a lot of communities and their content would come to a halt. If those communities were more spread out then it would have less of an impact.
There is another trend that people have of hating the most popular thing because anything popular has lots of people involved and therefore will have a lot of shitty people. Whether there is a higher ratio or not isn’t that important, because when you come across 10 people from the same site that are shitty, it makes the association easy and it doesn’t matter if they are only 1% of the population. We tend to remember negative things more than positives after all, so anything popular will have plenty of people involved who will leave a bad impression. The same is true for fandoms, sports, and populations of countries.
Hi, it’s just the most popular instance, IIRC, and one of the aims of the fediverse is to prevent centralisation of the service so it’s healthy for the community if users are spread out across different instances. If everyone was on the same instance it is no different than a non-federated service and that can lead to power trips and the fate of communities in the hands of very few.
IDK if there is some internal .world drama going on or not but it’s worth exploring and seeing if there is another instance that might suit you better: https://join-lemmy.org/instances
Thanks so much for the useful information. Definitely be exploring links
LW is actually pretty awesome. It’s the most vanilla of the servers.
The only real issue is that is so big that if they ever go down for any reason, a majority of the communities do too. So it’s nice to spread around.
Thank you again admins! You people are awesome!
Is LW a dumpster fire? No. Not at all. You’d notice it if it were.
But it is slow to upgrade, has some serious lag in federating with many instances, and represents a conceptual problem for decentralized social media by being a large, central entity in the network.
Like, if LW disappeared tomorrow, something like 25% of users and 40% of active communities would just blip out.
What’s an alternative that strikes a good balance between userbase, performance, federation speed, etc.?
My LW experience has been mostly fantastic.
As far as federation speed, literally anything else is fine. LW currently takes about 5 days to federate to aussie.zone, because it hasn’t turned on multi-threading despite the feature having been available for months now, and without it, Lemmy has to send each post, comment, or upvote one at a time. So, the large geographical distance between Europe and Australia, combined with the large amount of content LW produces, means it literally cannot federate properly. Everyone else is smaller which means it’s a complete non-issue, and most others have admins who don’t wait many months before upgrading to address problems, so even if they did grow, they’d be able to address the issue.
I have no horse in this fight (I’m from fedia.io which runs on Mbin, a different platform entirely to Lemmy), but lemm.ee seems like a pretty good general-purpose instance to me. Although, switching to that is not really the most useful way to increase decentralization, as they’re currently the #2 Lemmy instance by active users. But every little bit helps.
I think the most important thing to understand about lemm.ee is their policy on defederation. Broadly, they try to avoid using defederation whenever possible, preferring to handle moderation with finer-precision tools. In theory, this might lead to you seeing more things you don’t like, because they don’t defederate some instances which others do, but it also means you interact with a greater number/variety of people.
If your goal is just to “see all of Lemmy”, lemm.ee seems like a pretty good starting place. Of course, you might have more specific desires or needs and prefer to join an instance that is more heavily defederated from instances with content you might object to, etc.
In terms of the Lemmy software staying up to date, you might want to check out FediDB. It can’t really tell you how quick after an update the various instances upgrade their server software, but you can see that a lot of instances haven’t upgraded to the current version yet. The stable right now is 0.19.10, released 3 weeks ago, so anybody who hasn’t updated yet you can probably assume takes … more than three weeks to update.
You could try out Sopuli.xyz! They tend to stay on top of updates.
Kbin was small but I definitely noticed when it went down forever.
Eh it’s fine for now. We want an alternative to reddit and it’s here so now you complain?
Those using Mbin are trying to do our part. We’re a small percentage, but we’re here.
Hey don’t forget Friendica where lemmy communities look like Facebook groups.
We love you for it. Please keep up the good work!
I’m still kinda mourning kbin.social. It’s where I got started
Same here. I hope Ernest is okay, regardless if he ever brings Kbin back. He started something that fortunately others could pick up and run with.
Another OG kbinaut here (remember when we were all trying to figure out an appropriate demonym?). Ernest seems to be quite well! He’s got a relatively active blog. He recently moved closer to family in the Netherlands and has been enjoying seeing the sights. The about page of the blog also expresses a similar sentiment to yours:
Unfortunately, due to personal circumstances, I had to step away from actively working on Kbin and leave its further development to the community. Nevertheless, I am happy to see the project thriving, with a dedicated group of users and contributors who continue to push its vision forward.
Great news!
That’s why I only want to get emotionally invested in open-source projects because then I know that the code will live on.
Racoon is another project that was saved by the community.
Yeah, I’ve seen over the years projects that were good, but for whatever reasons the creator stopped updating it, and followers would request to no avail for them to release the code so it could continue.
I’m on Fedia. I like it here.
I had no idea using .world was a bad thing tbh, I just made a backup on another instance in case I lost access. Guess I’ll swap to using it full time.
Can you explain this to me in very simple terms? What’s the problem with .world? When I signed up I was told it was just the most broad, sort of “default” instance. What’s wrong with it? Is there one with a larger user base I should be on instead?
Lemmy.world has an overwhelmingly “US Democratic Party” slant, politically, as far as mods and admins tend to lean. As a consequence, it often censors criticism of the DNC from the Left, and is defederated from instances it disagrees with politically.
How does one go about figuring out this information? I’ve seen no evidence of censorship, but I also don’t really know what it would look like. I do I learn an instance has been defederated.
As a side note, we need to come up with a MUCH more simplified way to teach people about the fediverse if we’re ever going to get a large enough userbase. This shit is very complicated and confusing compared to more mainstream social media.
I’ve never had my criticism of the American democratic removed nor my leftist views. They have removed posts and comments showing support of Luigi Mangione (in the context of killing the wealthy). And the instances in question that world has defederated are lemmygrad (which if the name isn’t a big enough hint is a Leninist instance where they praise the USSR and China, hate anything western and ban anyone disagreeing with them) and Hexbear (who are politically adjacent to Lemmygrad but were banned by most instance because they were always brigading other instances and being generally annoying).
The only reason the other person is bringing up the defederation as a negative is because he ideologically agrees with those two instances. You can decide for yourself whether to value his opinion or not.
Just interacting with it and word of mouth, really. You can check federation, or scroll the drama communities, but at that point it becomes very “trryhard” for social media.
There are modlogs for all instances. Check them and you’ll see that you are being lied to. You’re right. .world doesn’t censor things that don’t violate the rules. And there is nothing at all in the rules that state you cannot criticize the DNC.
In fact, the person that’s bullshitting you, posts criticism there and is not censored. There’s TONS of criticism of democrats in .world. In fact it’s about 50% or the political content there.
Most of the people that cry about .world are either banned or have been temp banned many times for trolling and violating the actual rules of the instance. Not disagreeing.
That’s what .ml does.
Where do you go to see the modlogs?
This will get to started. From there, you can search by mod, user, reason, etc….
Each interface should have a link somewhere that directs you to the logs.
Wow! Yikes! Does certainly seem like the mods like to remove and ban people a lot. A lot of what I’m seeing on there is for comments that while I don’t personally agree, don’t really seem like they should be removed. I’m not trying to make a judgement about their personal politics, but they are certainly making their own subjective decisions about a lot of things that should really be left to the wider community…
Check the modlogs and show me one example of a mod removing something critical of the DNC, that didn’t break the rules. There is TONS of shit on .world that is critical of the DNC from the perspective of the left. YOU have posted quite a bit of tit yourself, so stop the bullshit.
In contrast, go ahead and check the modlogs of .ml and note how the ADMINS- not the mods (which are powerless there) remove shit every day they demonstrably break no rules whatsoever- because its Critical of china/russsia.
The hypocrisy is mind-blowing.
Check my modlog, I was permabanned from Political Memes for calling out the DNC’s involvement in the Palestinian genocide (with sources), then asking the mods how that broke the rules, which angered them into banning me. I was also temp-banned from ask lemmy for calling out a known transphobe, which the mod defended as “aggressive misinterpretation” on my end (despite the history of that poster’s transphobia). I also got permabanned from tankiejerk for giving a nuanced opinion on Socialism from a Marxist perspective, when the post gave an unclear definition.
So no, in my experience, Lemmy.world is filled with censorship, on top of outright defederation from the major Marxist instances. Explain to me how it is “free speech” to create an echo chamber that aligns with the US status quo.
Finally, I am not a mod nor an admin of Lemmy.ml. I don’t remove comments or posts. Regardless of how Lemmy.ml is run internally, I have access to far more types of speech through federation, that those on Lemmy.world are deemed not allowed to even see in the first place.
Here it is.
Looks to me your shit was rightfully removed for directly accusing the DNC of actually being the ones committing genocide.
I can’t say for sure what went on between you and them behind closed doors, but you were spreading agenda-based misinformation. I’d have removed your shit too.
Now note how much anti-democratic content still remains there. Then ask yourself what’s different between that content, and the bullshit you posted.
Then go ahead and look at the shit the children that run .ml remove.
Arming and supporting Israel in their genocide against Palestinians so that the US can secure its economic interests in the region is well-documented. Unsurprisingly, you go on to defend moderators that classify anti-Zionism as anti-semitism, it makes sense that you would consider the DNC’s involvement in the Palestinian genocide to be “misinformation.” Seems to me that you’re just a fan of Zionism, given how hard you bat to defend it.
I dunno, man. I’m pretty new to the whole fediverse stuff. I just learned about modlogs from this thread here, so obviously what I say is not super well-informed on the topic. But looking at the modlog someone linked below, most of the stuff I’m seeing removed are actually the exact opposite. I see comments removed because they’re calling other people tankies. I’m seeing stuff removed because it’s “horseshoe theoretisizing, bad-faith”. Then a bunch of people indirectly advocating violence.
I’ve never been a mod of anything, and a lot of this looks like stuff that if it were up to me I’d leave. But I don’t really see any evidence that .world “has an overwhelmingly “US Democratic Party” slant, politically”. As far as there is any ideological basis behind the mod actions, it seems to be more unaligned leftist than anything else.
Again, though, I’m very new to this and did not do anything close to what I would describe as a thorough search.
Well noted, and for the record- I don’t blindly support everything .world does. There are always exceptions to the rule. So it’s not my intent to make a blanket statement exonerating any and all behavior from the admin/moderation teams that make up lemmy.world.
It’s just been my observation of the parties involved on the subject after having been on lemmy for quite some time. There’s enough evidence in the logs to support most of what I’m saying to be accurate, but it’s not infallibly empirical.
So… I’d say, when in doubt- take a look at the content of character of the one making the complaint either via comment history or modlogs. You’ll see either trustworthy- but extremely biased people, untrustworthy- and extremely biased people, and everything in-between.
But at the end of the day, after all is said… it’s still better than Reddit.
So, welcome in!
Please do!
It’s not bad. If you check the modlogs of most of the people crying about it, you’ll find that many of them are either banned, or have had their shit removed for being debate trolls.
There is a lot of “free speech for me, not for thee” people around here, as they stir up shit in .world and then run to their instances where anyone that disagrees with them is banned. Then they accuse .world of bias.
As someone fairly new to Lemmy, y’all should just try making informative posts. I see lots of posts exactly like this, but there’s never any substance. What exactly did those instances do to earn their reputation? Start there. I’m close to blocking some communities because the lore just has no entry point so why bother.
Basically:
Those 3 instances are the biggest Marxist-aligned instances, either implicitly or explicitly. People taking issue with the stances and positions Marxists have, or Marxism in general, tend to not like them. That’s about it, really.
Incorrect. It’s not about the fact that they’re communists. Rather, it’s about their strict nationalistic feelings towards Russia and China. They claim that these regimes are communist (which is incorrect), and thus support any action by these nations. They enable and overlook oppressive actions commited by them, while being quick to point out the oppressive actions of the other countries (which are openly capitalist).
I’ve seen many tankies debate with other people, and they frequently employ tactics used by conspiracy theorists, such as selectively accepting sources, and denouncing everything else as propoganda. I’ve even seen a tankie denounce a news outlet, then use the same outlet in the same thread to argue their point.
I say this as someone who finds Marxism appealing, by the way. So I am in no way (as far as I can tell) biased against these people.
CC: @[email protected]
I’ll emphasize what I said, as I believe I already covered what you’re talking about:
People taking issue with the stances and positions Marxists have, or Marxism in general, tend to not like them.
Marxists in general tend to critically support Russia’s opposition to US Hegemony (and no further than that), and support “AES” (Actually Existing Socialism) countries like the PRC, Cuba, Vietnam, etc. Not a single Marxist believes Russia post-USSR is Socialist, though the vast majority of Marxists do believe the PRC is Socialist. Exceptions include the Peruvian Marxist-Leninist-Maoists (not to be confused with Marxism-Leninism Mao Zedong Thought, which is Marxism-Leninism under Mao but does not see Mao’s contributions as universally applicable), or Trotskyists.
I think you’d better understand the points Marxists make if you spent some time trying to actually understand their viewpoints, instead of misframing them in this manner. What, for example, do you find appealing about Marxism that stands in contradiction to the actual stances Marxists hold, not your misrepresentations of them?
Check the modlogs of those three communities and note how much of the content that is removed, doesn’t break any rules whatsoever.
They are run by people that have no intent whatsoever to allow free-speech or fair debate.
They deserve to dry up and disappear.
I’ve had my comments removed from Lemmy.world communities that didn’t break the rules, and have not been censored on the Marxist-aligned instances. I could say the same of Lemmy.world, that it seems in my experience to “be run by people that have no intent whatsoever to allow free-speech or fair debate.”
Calling out the Democrats for their participation in the genocide of Palestinians is removed as “misinformation,” and entire instances going against the standard Lemmy.world political line are defederated, preventing “free speech” before it even has a chance to exist.
I don’t think defederation is a bad tool, but I do think using it against large instances and then claiming to be “pro free-speech” is a bit ironic.
You get your shit removed for spreading bullshit misinformation and aggressively trolling people.
Thanks for proving my point.
Every one of your removals is a direct violation clearly stated rules. If they don’t violate the community rules, they violate the instance rules.
Can you explain how what I said is trolling, or misinformation? To be clear, you are calling the comments where I called out known transphobes for their transphobia “breaking the rules,” as well as calling the DNC complicit in the genocide of Palestinians as “misinformation?”
Unsurprisingly, you go on to defend moderators that classify anti-Zionism as anti-semitism, it makes sense that you would consider the DNC’s involvement in the Palestinian genocide to be “misinformation.”
ROFL!
thanks for proving my point. I rest my case. I’m going to block you for a while now so as not to have to have uncleared notifications from a troll.
Cool 👍
.world is full of assholes who so assume they are right I have had people there make the most rude and egotistical comments on other people from assumptions from sexual orientation to wealth to just threats that when pushed back upon they lock down their belief so hard that they state no evidence could be provided to correct them like a maga style conspiracy theorist and then the mods will delete comments from and ban only the victim as they celebrate keeping their narcissism at peak.
Then the 3 communist communities are that kind of unwilling to waver but more on specifically calling out western authoritarianism while being extra forgiving towards eastern authoritarianism because they think it’s the only alternative and so need to forgive it and block nuance from the conversation to protect ego and faith.
And since it’s primarily political posts that make it to All lots of users have pushed back gotten yelled at and banned from those communities from the obvious chaos of talking politics with people who only interact with their own bubbles.Honestly they are just the oldest communities with members who are the most devout in their faith and don’t communicate well with others. As Lemmy was basically originally a quarantine for the worst users of reddit.
It helps to adopt the mantra of “block early, block often”. Sometimes you can salvage a community merely by blocking one (or a few) posters/commentors, other times it helps to block the entire community (on PieFed there are additional options beyond merely Subscribed vs. All vs. Local, but on Lemmy you have to jump through all of these hoops, so yeah, blocking helps a ton).
There are occasionally lore posts but people vary SO MUCH in what they consider “good” or not that it is hard to have those conversations without them devolving into shouting matches - unfortunately some people are not content to allow others to have their preferences without things like trolling and brigading and going through someone’s entire comment history and downvoting literally everything they’ve done, etc.
But keep watching, occasionally those lore posts do come up every now and then.
